TWU and the Company reached a Tentative Agreement

[rotorhead22704]

I believe it is perfectly clear to all our TWU members now, how this union is selling us out again. This TA should have been thrown back in the Company's face like stores did! TULSA YOU GUYS NEED TO GET IT TOGETHER! Please sign an AMFA card and send it on so we can start the process to kick out these greedy bastards!

They just want our 10 million in union dues. There are several different opinions on this TA,here's mine : THIS IS LBO #2 I always thought last best offer meant last best offer? So the company got the grace period to keep outside offers like US Air out until December. They still have to have an agreement with all the unions by May of 2013 in order to exit chapter 11 otherwise they have to go chapter 7.

Here's the deal, Why commit to A TWU INTERNATIONAL ENDORSED 6 YEAR PIECE OF #### CONTRACT WHEN WE KNOW THE COMPANY HAS TO HAVE A DEAL WITH ALL THE UNIONS PRIOR TO MAY 2013 IN ORDER TO SAFELY CLEAR CHAPTER 11? IT'S SIMPLY A MATTER OF LOGIC, have you ever heard the term: The girls all look better at closing time! That's right hold, hold,hold until the time is right. Sure the Judge can abrogate but it can not be a six year abrogation. He will tell the company and the union they need to have an agreement that is equitable to both in order for us to have a safe clear of chapter 11. The employees you go in with are the same ones you must eventually come out with. The company of course wants penned TA'S prior to any merger in order for the rich bastards in the AMR executive positions to maximize there golden parachutes based on stock values on the way out if they pull this off by getting all the unions to agree to this Horton could get up to 1% of the company which might be as much as 600 million if he does not pull it off maybe he gets 30 million on the way out.
Please Tulsa Guys VOTE NO. THIS TA IS SO FULL OF HOLES AND AMR ARE SUCH LIARS THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE EVEN YOUR JOBS WILL NOT BE SAFE AFTER THE SMOKE CLEARS. We must stick together line and overhaul and stand strong and don't go for what may look like a sure thing. I and many others believe it is just an illusion and will fade fast if we let them the company and TWU GET AWAY WITH THIS!

 

[FWAAA]

They just want our 10 million in union dues. There are several different opinions on this TA,here's mine : THIS IS LBO #2 I always thought last best offer meant last best offer? So the company got the grace period to keep outside offers like US Air out until December. They still have to have an agreement with all the unions by May of 2013 in order to exit chapter 11 otherwise they have to go chapter 7.

Wrong. There's nothing that requires that a company liquidate if it doesn't settle labor issues by the end of the exclusivity period. The deadline is merely AA's last chance to present its own plan of reorganization to the creditors without the meddling outsiders like US.

The pilots' professional advisors have told them that in their opinion, AA does not need consensual agreements to exit Ch 11, given that there is no need for exit financing (because there are no DIP lenders).

Horton's 1% claim might be worth $50 million to $100 million, but in order for it to be worth the $600 million you asserted, AA's market cap would have to exceed $60 billion, which is more than the aggregate market cap of all airlines in the US.

 

[Buck]

Seperate from O/H.....It's the only way.!!

After all the anti-Overhaul comments you expect me to sign an AMFA card, you guys are dreaming.

Why are you so obtuse? Of those that are discussing separation the Line from Overhaul, 2 out of 3 or Teamsters.

 

[BigMac]

Line vs Tulsa. Here we go again. When you refer to Tulsa please indicate Tulsas Worthless officers and not Tulsa as a whole. You say we voted these clowns in? The reason I believe Cirri was voted in was because the past worthless AMT presidents weren't worth a damn and most voted for a change this go around. Which turned out to be a slap in the face. As far as the other idiots getting elected.. I don't know how they were voted in. I've questioned hundreds if not thousands that say they didn't vote any of these sell-outs in office. Keep talking sh!t about Tulsa and their libel to shove this POS TA up your a$$ out of aggravated spite. Vote No and funnel your rage @ removing this sell-out union.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

"I for one don't know if I will be voting no a third time, i'm ready to get some money & move on, I definitely don't have faith in cirri & Hewitt's abilities to negotiate contracts, We need someone like Burchette who is not timid but we don't have him.

I'm just getting very frustrated with all this & want it to be over one way or the other."

Dan,

If you vote yes you are going against your beliefs. It is our turn... again... to fight. Things that have value are hard to fight for they are not easy. You say it's easy to get a teamsters card because people who sign a teamster card do not bother to educate themselves about the similarities between the twu and teamsters. Educating yourself and others takes time and effort but the effort is worth it.

If you want to move on that is your right and I wish you the best but do not screw your fellow AMTs by hindering them with the worse contract language in the industry which in turn will harm our entire craft.

As for burchette... he was a twu international fool. If there is any overhaul vs. line mentality it was fostered by burchette. He was nothing but a lackie for the international and company. Kept his hands warm in the company's pockets he did and also got himself removed from one of the cushiest jobs in the twu international... he was set for life all he had to do was sell out the membership for a few pieces of silver and he was on easy street. Look at him now.

It is easy to get frustrated and as Bob Owens pointed out that is exactly what the company wants you to feel. The twu wants you to feel the same way. Don't give in. Catch your breath and educate people about why we need a craft union, which you believe in. It might not be easy but it is the right thing to do for you, those coming in the door behind you and for our entire craft and profession.

Go AMFA!

 

[Raptorman49]

Burchette? Are you serious? My sympathy just turned to pity. Burchette? Unbelievable Raptor

Burchette was a great leader when he first started out in my opinion, he got us the best contract we have ever had, yes he did go bad but at first he was good, I'm not saying I would want him now I'm saying we need someone like how he was when he was first elected before the power went to his head & he went bad.

As I said I know he went bad i'm talking about his first term in office, he did good things, I'm not endorsing Burchette for sure nor do I forgive what he did, The point of the post was that we need a strong leader like he was on his first term, we have timid leaders now & that doesn't work.

 

[TWU informer]

Burchette was a great leader when he first started out in my opinion, he got us the best contract we have ever had, yes he did go bad but at first he was good, I'm not saying I would want him now I'm saying we need someone like how he was when he was first elected before the power went to his head & he went bad.

Read the Testimony of the NWA/AMFA Presidential Emergency Board, look at the date, look at the outcome. And then try tell us all again the Burchette got you that contract.

You are hopeless and cannot be communicated with, you will not learn what is happening in this industry, you will not learn about the battle of craft va industrial union, you claim to not care, you claim you are anti-union.

Keep wearing that Teamsters button, because without a doubt you fit that mold.
You are the best thing they have seen and they hope to find thousands of you around.
Not going to happen!

 

[Raptorman49]

Read the Testimony of the NWA/AMFA Presidential Emergency Board, look at the date, look at the outcome. And then try tell us all again the Burchette got you that contract.

You are hopeless and cannot be communicated with, you will not learn what is happening in this industry, you will not learn about the battle of craft va industrial union, you claim to not care, you claim you are anti-union.

Keep wearing that Teamsters button, because without a doubt you fit that mold.

No Peb got us a contract our Negotiators negotiated a contract .... Geez, your right trying to communicate with some is hopeless, your really pushing me more to the Teamsters with all these conspiracy theories.
Your also pushing me to vote yes on the contract, my suggestion is be careful talking to people at the base because you not good at pushing people in the direction you want them to go.

 

[odie01]

No Peb got us a contract our Negotiators negotiated a contract .... Geez, your right trying to communicate with some is hopeless, your really pushing me more to the Teamsters with all these conspiracy theories.

Dude, we don't have to push, it's evident your with the twu/IBT. Your out numbered though.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

No Peb got us a contract our Negotiators negotiated a contract .... Geez, your right trying to communicate with some is hopeless, your really pushing me more to the Teamsters with all these conspiracy theories.

Dan,

I believe you miss the fact that AMFA stood up to NWA management and took negotiations to a PEB. In the PEB the outcome was an industry leading contract. During this PEB we were in negotiations and once the NWA contract was signed American Airlines was forced to match the increase AMFA negotiated. This is fact. The twu did not negotiate us our raise American was forced to match it. So the PEB did negotiate our contract.

I know you want to promote AMFA.

 

[Raptorman49]

Dude, we don't have to push, it's evident your with the twu/IBT. Your out numbered though.

I'm not with anybody & never will be, I don't follow it's not in my Nature, I make my own decisions as should you, as for being out numbered, when it comes to union issues votes etc. I am often out numbered but that's ok i'm not interested in being popular or my opinions being popular, I'm a loner and as such have no need to be part of any kind of popularity contest.
If being part of a group/team & being popular is something you aspire to then good luck with that.

 

[Raptorman49]

Dan,

I believe you miss the fact that AMFA stood up to NWA management and took negotiations to a PEB. In the PEB the outcome was an industry leading contract. During this PEB we were in negotiations and once the NWA contract was signed American Airlines was forced to match the increase AMFA negotiated. This is fact. The twu did not negotiate us our raise American was forced to match it. So the PEB did negotiate our contract.

I know you want to promote AMFA.

Oh so your saying that Burchette & Chuck & the rest of the negotiators know they weren't really in the negotiations back in 2003 it was all the peb & AMFA .... Wow does the rest of the Membership know that they weren't there ?? OMG Ken stop your killing me with this stuff.
Regardless of what happens in the Industry I will always give the credit for what is negotiated to the Negotiators they have to live out of suitcases for long periods of time fighting with company negotiators, they deserve credit for what they do & not have it arbitrarily given to some other organization for a cause.

Oh and I have always said I prefer AMFA (a craft Union) over other Unions but am not against the Teamsters either, I just don't think AMFA can get the cards at this point and that matters.
It's a long shot for the Teamsters too though with the line stations not to much into the Teamsters.

 

[Tex-Mech]

Oh so your saying that Burchette & Chuck & the rest of the negotiators know they weren't really in the negotiations back in 2003 it was all the peb & AMFA ....

It was 2001, and Burchette made a famous quote about you guys would be lucky to get $28 an hour 3 months before PEB. SHortly after the PEB, AA offered the 2001 contract.

 

[Bob Owens]

In a couple of years the Line will out number overhaul & the Line stations will get what they want, with the average age being 49 a lot of overhaul will be retiring after this contract I suspect so more power to them, I will be gone for sure.

I think thats the motivation for bringing this back, desperation on the part of the Tulsa leadership to try and maintain their hegemony. They are so distrustful and disdainful of the line they are willing to walk us all into a trap-the elimination of system protection and a 35% cap on outsourced "Maint spend" pegged at the lowest wages in the industry along with the bootlicking letter where we show our appreciation for being the worst paid by committing to make AA number 1. . Many think it means that "Maint Spend" means they can only get rid of 35% of the workers but if we agree to this they can outsource most of OH and just keep the high dollar stuff in house and get rid of a lot more than 35% of the headcount. Thats why they want System Protection gone.

 

[Realityck]

Bob: I think thats the motivation for bringing this back, desperation on the part of the Tulsa leadership to try and maintain their hegemony.They are so distrustful and disdainful of the line they are willing to walk us all into a trap-the elimination of system protection and a 35% cap on outsourced "Maint spend" pegged at the lowest wages in the industry along with the bootlicking letter where we show our appreciation for being the worst paid by committing to make AA number 1.


From an Ovhl AMT's perspective, K-- M- A--, if you don't know what that means, have someone explain it to you.