TWU and the Company reached a Tentative Agreement

[Overspeed]

High speed you talk alot and know little. Some people make sacrifices and I have, dueto their isn't enough time in a day to cover everything I need. But I have covered everything that was asked of me by my members and my family. You can try to cut me down but anyone that knows me knows the sacrifices I have made in a leadership role. I have nothing to prove to you and your rhetoric. I put in many hours unpaid.
I do alot of pro-bono work because our members do not have the cash to pay me.
but i do it because it is the right thing to do and help people in need.
with this proposal I will probably do alot more pro-bono work but thats OK you dont have to worry about that.
It is a sad day when someone like yourself who claims to be intelligent and favors a management contract.
Anyone I show this proposal to feels sorry for me and that is embarrassing! then when I tell I belong to a union they gasp and say really! Followed by "thats a shame".
so is it just me or is everyone wrong who speaks against this?

You know what's even more embarrassing? Realizing that the advice you gave back in 2010 was wrong. There was no more money on the table, the BK that was discussed and dismissed by you turned out to be real, and we are not getting better deals they are getting worse. Of course in two or three years after thousands of jobs are outsourced maybe we will get a raise.

Pro-bono work? Don't you get a salary from the union? Local 562 has the highest salary of all the line locals. You are not poor Chuck.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

The AMFA recall of National Officers is not as simple as you try to inject here. It is however rather complicated and involves more support from their locals within a region than you either don't understand or don't know. Maybe you could offer a "virtual example" based off their constitution as how a recall would play out. We do have a diciplinary based recall within the TWU constitution.

If a National Officer does something to damage a single group made up of various groups of workers such as a Title 1,2,3,4,5 then yes it would be difficult to get support from all to oust or fire that individual.. The same individual damaging a single Craft of worker will face members that have the same to lose no matter who they work for!!

Sell out Technicians at one airline and it may have repercussions at another, so yes I believe that individual would be easily removed..

This has been our problem with industrial unions for some time!!

 

[Raptorman49]

You know what's even more embarrassing? Realizing that the advice you gave back in 2010 was wrong. There was no more money on the table, the BK that was discussed and dismissed by you turned out to be real, and we are not getting better deals they are getting worse. Of course in two or three years after thousands of jobs are outsourced maybe we will get a raise.

Pro-bono work? Don't you get a salary from the union? Local 562 has the highest salary of all the line locals. You are not poor Chuck.

You know Overspeed had they offered everyone retiree Medical on the 2010 then it probably would have passed, there is nothing right about a Man having 30 years of seniority but being only 49 having to wait till 65 to retire while a 50 year old with 5 years of seniority was able to retire with full medical coverage, That's why everyone I know voted No on it, either everyone should have lost it or everyone kept it but not exclude people below 50 regardless of seniority.
Retiring is my main goal so there was no way I could vote to lose my retiree medical.
Guess Luis didn't think that through well enough so that plus the cave man thing sealed his doom.

 

[TWU informer]

So with the National Officers of the AMFA it is a regional percentage of the locals and these locals are made up of members of other airlines represented by the AMFA. Lets say you had a complaint about how you were being represented by an AMFA National Officer at your airline but the other members within the region were not in support of your complaint in representation, how would you get them on board with you to drive that National Officer out of office?

Recall is possible under the AMFA Constitution, but since direct election of National Officers is also coming soon with the AMFA Constitution I would just wait and VOTE THEM OUT, unless it was so bad you would not need to get groups on board for the recall, then obviously recall would be easy and not a challenge as you claim.

Contrast that with the TWU/IBT appointee in exchange for dirty deeds system of union leadership.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

You know what's even more embarrassing? Realizing that the advice you gave back in 2010 was wrong. There was no more money on the table, the BK that was discussed and dismissed by you turned out to be real, and we are not getting better deals they are getting worse. Of course in two or three years after thousands of jobs are outsourced maybe we will get a raise.

Pro-bono work? Don't you get a salary from the union? Local 562 has the highest salary of all the line locals. You are not poor Chuck.

You know what you missed in your rant, The problem is not that the 2010 got voted down, the problem lies in that we never were presented a proposal that was remotely satsifactory. My salary does not even cover the hours i put in for the members for union business alone. If i billed the local for all the hours instead of getting a salary your right then i would not be poor. The pro-bono work is outside the scope of my elected position and on top of my regular union hours.
High speed why dont you try something different and apply as much effort attacking the company as much as you do me. Or maybe they are not your enemy?
You offer nothing but criticism and not much solution to the problem of our career ending proposals.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Chuck has walked the picket line in NY and been one of the faces of our struggle. Informer has the cahones to put himself out there and lead the charge for a different barganing unit. Bob Owens has incurred the wrath of the TWU international simply because he dares to post facts that the international would rather keep under wraps. These men are the kind who do not hide behind a keyboard. They have sacrificed much for this both in their personal lives and their work places. Even if you disagree with what they have to say, you have to admire that they are not afraid to stand up to management or the union and fight. I much prefer this approach rather than our $250K per year prez who tells his $170K per year secretary to type a letter saying he'll fight like hell. Then show up at one rally and shake your fist, meanwhile telling your minions (In Tulsa) to push a yes vote on a contract that completely destroys any chance of ever making a decent living with this airline. Maybe bending over and grabbing your ankles is your idea of fighting but exuse me if there are some of us who disagree. Those of you who keep insulting these men and trying to spread fear are just following the TWU mantra. I have much respect for the above men. I do disagree from time to time, but that's what makes our country so great. The odds are against us in this battle, but the odds were against a group of farmers and shop keepers who dared stand up to the world's greatest power. These men defeated Great Britan and brought a king to his knees. The point is you can't win if you don't fight. These men and some others (Yeah you too Raptorman) choose to fight and I choose to stand with them. I am proud to have people like these who are not afraid to take the heat for the rest of us just to make everyone's life better. If we vote yes we destroy our way of life. If we vote no it is not a guarantee that it will get better, but at least there is a CHANCE of doing better. I will take the chance.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Recall is possible under the AMFA Constitution, but since direct election of National Officers is also coming soon with the AMFA Constitution I would just wait and VOTE THEM OUT, unless it was so bad you would not need to get groups on board for the recall, then obviously recall would be easy and not a challenge as you claim.
Contrast that with the TWU/IBT appointee in exchange for dirty deeds system of union leadership.

So as it is written, recall is possible within the AMFA, but very complicated as I have said....So with you recognizing the difficulty of executing such a plan of recall you would rather wait for general elections, or your presumed easy way out? Seem's you would still have the same problem facing you to remove a National Officer who other represented employee's may love and you despise....lol

 

[High Speed Steel]

Hey Informer on a topic closer to the thread. You say you will vote no. I'm trying to understand your logic on this. Seem's as I recall you and I were somewhat on the same page with the 2010 TA as voting for it, because we both seen our situation getting worse if it was rejected. Now it is worse, and you have jumped off the band wagon! What gives? You knew then the presumed outcome, argued for the 2010 passage, and now want to further enhance the possibility of things getting much worse than what this TA offers? I just don't get your drift...

 

[TWU informer]

Hey Informer on a topic closer to the thread. You say you will vote no. I'm trying to understand your logic on this. Seem's as I recall you and I were somewhat on the same page with the 2010 TA as voting for it, because we both seen our situation getting worse if it was rejected. Now it is worse, and you have jumped off the band wagon! What gives? You knew then the presumed outcome, argued for the 2010 passage, and now want to further enhance the possibility of things getting much worse than what this TA offers? I just don't get your drift...

It was my opinion that we would not get better than the 2010 T/A this has turned out to be fact, but the majority spoke and I am with you here and now.

This Bankruptcy process is not over and I refuse to vote yes on an agreement that removes so many heads and so much value in pay, benefits, and work rules.

Real simple, really. I AM NOT SCARED, AND I WILL NOT BE SHOVED INTO A DIRECTION BASED ON FEAR!

You have no proof that this will get worse.....How can it?

 

[High Speed Steel]

It was my opinion that we would not get better than the 2010 T/A this has turned out to be fact, but the majority spoke and I am with you here and now.

This Bankruptcy process is not over and I refuse to vote yes on an agreement that removes so many heads and so much value in pay, benefits, and work rules.

Real simple, really. I AM NOT SCARED, AND I WILL NOT SHOVED INTO A DIRECTION BASED ON FEAR!

I'm not trying to use FEAR as you suggest. I'm only looking to the factual reality as should you...

 

[2ndGENAMT]

You have no idea how this will play out HSS!! The facts point to a bankruptcy like no other in Airline Bankruptcies!! VOTE NO!!

You are using Fear of the unknown to push a Yes Vote!!

 

[TWU informer]

I'm not trying to use FEAR as you suggest. I'm only looking to the factual reality as should you...

You misunderstood me.
I was not accusing you of using FEAR.

I meant FEAR is the only justifiable reason to vote anything other than NO.

 

[DNTULSA]

Dude you can't be the same in person as you are behind a keyboard, I have met several people from the forum in person & would very much like to meet you in person, Personal message me & I will come see you so we can chat, it appears your In Tulsa so meeting shouldn't be a problem & you can see for yourself first hand what I'm about instead of assuming so many things about me based on who & what you are about, its no secret who I am & where I'm located, hmmm from your last post it appears you & Dave don't know each other, it seems no one knows who you really are ..... How convienent for you.

raptorman,

The reason I called you a union suck was this:

You joined the forum on june 30, 2012, and by july 19 have 523 posts.

Anonymous joined on june 2nd, and had 337 posts by july 5.

If I had researched further, I could come up with more names of twu defenders (sucks) that have come and gone in a short period of time leaving a lot of posts.

You come across as being both naive and crafty. (that is a switch for the normal twu/teamsters worshipper)

You say that you have a lot of seniority, but you waffle a lot on your beliefs. It would seem that if you had that much seniority, you would understand the situation at AA a lot better than you appear to.

What took you so long to find this site? You don't come across as being the person you say you are.

I have no desire to meet you.

 

[Raptorman49]

raptorman,

The reason I called you a union suck was this:

You joined the forum on june 30, 2012, and by july 19 have 523 posts.

Anonymous joined on june 2nd, and had 337 posts by july 5.

If I had researched further, I could come up with more names of twu defenders (sucks) that have come and gone in a short period of time leaving a lot of posts.

You come across as being both naive and crafty. (that is a switch for the normal twu/teamsters worshipper)

You say that you have a lot of seniority, but you waffle a lot on your beliefs. It would seem that if you had that much seniority, you would understand the situation at AA a lot better than you appear to.

What took you so long to find this site? You don't come across as being the person you say you are.

I have no desire to meet you.

After doing research on you it appears you are RETIRED and no longer have a dog in this fight which makes your opinions "Irrelevant", you should be enjoying your retirement instead of meddling in others affairs, I couldn't careless what a RETIRED person thinks of me or AA situation, no wonder you don't know who I am & can't meet me because you are RETIRED & no longer work for AA, You and Rick Mullins have a lot in common .... Meaning you can't seem to get on with your life now that you no longer work for AA, this will be the last response you will get from me because I have NO TIME for someone who is no longer employed at AA & therefor will not have to live with the consequences of whatever decisions the Employee's make.

I should have researched you before I even responded the first time .... ugh.
Enjoy your retirement & don't worry about what happens at AA we will take it from here old timer.

 

[TWU informer]

After doing research on you it appears you are RETIRED and no longer have a dog in this fight which makes your opinions "Irrelevant", you should be enjoying your retirement instead of meddling in others affairs, I couldn't careless what a RETIRED person thinks of me or AA situation, no wonder you don't know who I am & can't meet me because you are RETIRED & no longer work for AA, You and Rick Mullins have a lot in common .... Meaning you can't seem to get on with your life now that you no longer work for AA, this will be the last response you will get from me because I have NO TIME for someone who is no longer employed at AA & therefor will not have to live with the consequences of whatever decisions the Employee's make.

I should have researched you before I even responded the first time .... ugh.
Enjoy your retirement & don't worry about what happens at AA we will take it from here old timer.

Where does one cross that line?

The reason I ask is that you have told me personally and posted here that you just want to retire and leave.

At what point do your opinions become irrelevant? After you actually retire? Or once you decide you no longer care about anything but leaving?