TWU and the Company reached a Tentative Agreement

[Tex-Mech]

That's your choice. I feel otherwise and I can live with the outcome of the vote.

Yes you can with the 6 figure international salary

 

[Raptorman49]

I have talked to more than a few of the guys who voted yes on the last offer, and they won't be voting yes on this one. This offer will be voted down as well.

Really ? That's Interesting why would they vote yes on the last one which was worse than this one ??

 

[Overspeed]

I mean that I think they will impose this T/A to keep labor peace, and therefore we gain by voting NO.

Got it. Don't agree. But you knew that didn't you?

 

[Overspeed]

Yes you can with the 6 figure international salary

I'm still waiting on that check!

I already make six figures with the OT I'm picking up with all this hail damage and bad TX weather.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yes that's right. What's your point? How much of TAESL spend is labor? $50M? That's less than 3% increase? If the 3/22 term sheet goes in to affect the 500 jobs that will be lost if TAESL closes will be nothing in comparison to the 2,000 that will be lost. Keep voting no right Bob, it's going to get better.

Maintenance spend. Not just labor, the company alraedy said it would add 10% to the 35%.

By the way the 2200 is already a couple of hundred below that, but you knew that didnt you?

 

[TWU informer]

Got it. Don't agree. But you knew that didn't you?

I mean that I think they will impose this T/A to keep labor peace, and therefore we gain by voting NO.

Their business plan is evolving and the current plan includes this T/A being in place.

No reason why they could not impose this T/A and then stall negotiations for a few years.
That would keep the NMB at bay for sometime since pay increases would be forthcoming.

What a plan! They get what they want either way, but at least we didnt cave in!!!

 

[Raptorman49]

I have posted all of your lies and bogus predictions before. Not going to do it again. You said time and time again that it was a "threat", "scam", "manufactured crisis", etc...


October 1, 2011

• “I think BK is a scam.”
• “We have no control over BK and we are not a big enough component in the equation where what we do would have any influence over that decision anyway. In other words they dont stand to gain much in BK from us.”

Overspeed you do seem to have inside details, didn't you say you were a Machinist or was that Highspeed ? You sound like an officer or Company negotiator that was in the negotiations.

 

[Overspeed]

Maintenance spend. Not just labor, the company alraedy said it would add 10% to the 35%.

By the way the 2200 is already a couple of hundred below that, but you knew that didnt you?

But that's the point, engines are mostly material and not labor. And if the engines are under a PbtH deal then it probably won't be as big an impact to jobs as you think. If the TAESL engine expense is $500M annually and only $50M of that is labor yes the OSS % could go up dramatically however the jobs loss would not be as great as if were airframe. Using the same $500M figure for AO would shift the materials versus labor balance wouldn't it? AO uses more labor so if we outsourced an additional $500M in AO it would be $400M in labor and $100M in material. That would be 4,000 jobs in AO and only 500 in EO with the same percentage. (Paying attention?) So if the rate is adjusted "accordingly" then it is up to you smart guys in the room to make sure it is adjusted "accordingly" so we don't get screwed.

 

[Overspeed]

Overspeed you do seem to have inside details, didn't you say you were a Machinist or was that Highspeed ? You sound like an officer or Company negotiator that was in the negotiations.

I read a lot.

 

[TWU informer]

I read a lot.

LOL....Is that your final answer?

 

[Buck]

Really ? That's Interesting why would they vote yes on the last one which was worse than this one ??

Which has the worst SCOPE Language?

 

[Bob Owens]

Yes I know who AirCon is. A data source that is supplied with information from other management types. Do you have other data that shows different? The pay rates in the TA are consistent with what I have read in their contracts.

You may want to check the UAL rates.
So AIRCON is just a data source? Really? They are an organization committed to lowering airline workers wages and providing its airline members information they can spin in order to do that. I met Robert Delucia at a conference in DC last year where I was talking to two aquaintences from the management side of the business when he came up, introduced himself as "I'm the guy who gives you all the info you need to scare away your unions". he didnt know I was union.

The ARSA is a group that is focused on increasing of outsourcing of maintenance work

Would it be fair to say that the TWU is a group thats focused on driving aircraft mechanics wages down? Every other group will come out the other side among their peers, none of them are at the bottom, some are only below Southwest, what you would call the top of the industry. Obviously some people in this organization have something against us. Layoffs suck, but they are temporary, when the TWU had financial difficulties did they cut everyones pay? No, they laid people off. yet they tell us to accept over 20% less than post BK UAL, and language that would allow the company to outsource more than they could at this point in time to supposedly save jobs.

Bob, by urging people to vote no so more overhaul jobs are placed at risk you are furthering your personal agenda of getting line AMTs more money at the cost of overhaul.

Arent you the one who just recently said that the new aircraft will have most of the work done on the line even if this passes? Are you saying that we all should work for much less even though those jobs are going away anyway? why? So we can say how much we sacrificed when it happens? So if its going to happen anyway would the Overhaul guys who exercise their seniority be better off bumping the line at a lower wage vs a higher wage?

 

[Raptorman49]

I read a lot.

Hmmmm so it seems, can't help but wonder where one might get access to inside information to read, but ok.

 

[Raptorman49]

LOL....Is that your final answer?

LOL .... that was funny.

 

[Bob Owens]

Mixing apples and oranges again.

The July 2010 TA was the deal you recommended we vote no against because we will get a better deal and BK was a threat. That deal is long gone.

Now we are in BK and saying we can still get that is building false hope. This is not normal negotiations, we are in BK. Now you say vote no, take a chance that the judge will be nice to us. Uh, no. He won't be nice to us but he will to the creditors.

UA makes more than us now eight years after BK. You are comparing to entirely different circumstances and that is where you lose the argument.

Funny how you love to use managements vocabulary. Apples and organges indeed.

More Lies.
I never said we would get a better deal, I said we must fight for a better deal, but the International would not even ask for a release despite the fact that normally a release is sought (and granted)after a TA rejection.

When did I say the Judge will be nice to us? Never. You have repeatedly said he will abrogate but you can not say for certian. What is the basis for abrogation if our offer met their request to cease the pension, do away with retiree medical and lay off as many as they targeted? In every other measure we are at the bottom of the industry.

Market rates, if the Judge abrogates we make the companys life as rough as they make ours and push for Market Rates in a PEB. No its never been done before, but no company has ever gone into BK before with over $5 billion and abrogated contracts of workers who were below market rates either.