TWU and the Company reached a Tentative Agreement

[Vortilon]

I agree no worries AC Tynker I hit the report button, doesn't matter that he wasn't insulting me, I suspect Votilon won't we with us much longer if he can't be civil. B)
yes Vortilon I ratted you out, first time but I'm sure not to be the last.

What, you ratted me out... Should I be afraid or something? People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones hobbit boy.

 

[Raptorman49]

I cant say what the Judge will do, anyone who does is guessing, same for the other questions. What I can say is that if you vote yes you will most certainly be working for at least $16000 a year less than your counter part at United, and a lot more than that than your couterpart at several other carriers. The Wage adjustment provision only covers the wage but as you know benefits can be looked at as money as well. When we agreed to five Holidays at half pay if worked, something NOBODY else gave up, we lost the equivelent of 100 hours pay. When we gave up a weeks vacation we lost another 40 hours pay and we also gave up 7 sick days, thats 56 hours pay that you can use or bank. Those concessions reduced the value of our total compensation by nearly 10%. Most of our peers kept most of those things through BK. At the time we gave those things up it came out to over $7000.

First of all its not 15% in raises, its 15% on you base. So its really closer to 2.5% for 4 years, just over 1% for two, and those raises are over a 10 year period.

Consider this, lets say the Pilots reject the deal and the Flight attendants as well and the Judge decides not to abrogate, what then? They strike a deal where after our ME Too expires they get decent deals. How will you feel then? Why not Vote No so we at least see where the pilots land? Why rush ahead of them at this point? How many times have we done that only to be sorry later?

Your good Bob, he's on the ropes & fading fast ..... put him away. B)

 

[Raptorman49]

What, you ratted me out... Should I be afraid or something? People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones hobbit boy.

Nah don't be afraid what's the worse than can happen, you get banned from staying here & insulting people who don't think like you & the rest of us won't miss your temper tantrums ..... no big deal right ? so please continue to insult people, the sooner your on another bulletin board the sooner we can continue a civil conversation

 

[iluvaa]

Your good Bob, he's on the ropes & fading fast ..... put him away. B)

If you have a personal message for Bob plz PM him so the rest of us dont have to get involved with your personal conversation

 

[Bob Owens]

Read on brother. Early opener in 4 years after DOS. That means you get a 12% raise plus the wage adjustment to industry average and we can negotiate then. That will be after AA has started receiving the lions share of their new fleet. We should be in excellent position to get top wages at that time. AA will be well out of BK and yes, we should have the lowest maintenance costs due to our newer fleet.

In 1995 we got a "Me Too Clause" that didnt work out so well, in 2003 we got an "early Opener" that didnt work out so well, this time we are getting both!!

Get the loins share then, when the new fleet is here? The new fleet that wont need to be overhauled for another decade? That would put us in a good position????? When we are overstaffed for the limited work we have??

We will be so far behind that we will never catch up, the jobs vs pay arguement will be brought fwd again and you will be here selling it again.

AA will be well out of BK and yes, we should have the lowest maintenance costs due to our newer fleet.

Yep, and they will need even fewer mechanics. Lower demand dose not provide leverage.

 

[Strake]

I wonder who the guy is that drives below the speed limit in the fast lane???? Please? You're waisting valuable board space...

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Bob,

When are you going to take responsibility for your inability to negotiate.

You have spent many years with AMFA/AMP tearing down AA and the TWU!!! Bob you DO NOT have a clue how to negotiate a contract.

Your unprofessional actions has done nothing to help the Mechanics and Related at AA. You and the few Kool-Aid drinkers have cost us tens of thousands of dollars!!! and done more damage to our profession than anyone here on this board!!!!!

Really CIO, Our local members support Bob and the way he conducts business. Can people say the same about you? Give me all the great negotiations skills before Bob Owens? Let me hear all the great accomplishments from past negotiations with the superior team of negotiators prior.

 

[Overspeed]

Wrong again. United was ahead of us in 2003. They didnt agree to go below us till 2005 in wages but kept a lot of stuff that we gave up.



Funny but most people who work under the deal consider 2003 to be the first BK contract. We gave up more outside of BK than they did in BK.



In december of 2002 UAL was making more than we were, yes the court, through an 1113e granted the company a 14% paycut, they came to a TA that knocked it down to 13% then two weeks later we agreed to concessions outside of BK in excess of 25%. We cut their balls off.



Better than SIX.





Two Fleet Service Clerks who rarely take part in M&R always seem to show up when some yes votes are needed.



You advocate destrying the profession and driving wages into the ground all under the false promise of saving jobs. What you are really advocating is destroying the jobs of all workers. I saw your response to SWAMT, you seemed to take pleasure in the fact that our concessions will likely drive SWA to push for concessions from them. You are a sick evil fraud. No A&P would take pleasure in seeing the profession destroyed as you advocate.

Oh Bob, there you go again distorting. UA asked for the 1113e when they filed asking for huge pay cuts and across the board cuts to pension and retiree medical. The pay cuts were reduced from approximately 20% to 10% when they emerged. And UA has just after eight years passed us on pay. If abrogation is such a good deal why didn't they get raises? Because the TWU screwed them? Hardly, their union was too busy letting all their AO work get outsourced to China and Korea. What stuff did they give up that we already did? It wasn't jobs because while UA shuttered IND and all of SFO AO we still had people making $33/hour while their AO guys made...wait...they don't have any AO guys!

2003 was a concessionary contract no doubt about it and it sucked. I never said it was great but it was nowhere near the train wreck in concessions in jobs that UA, US, and NW gave up. We still earned our pension for the last eight years and that is a BIG deal.

"We cut their balls off?" Hardly, with all the jobs they gave up they should have stayed kept their pay rates. The problem with UA was the ESOP already had that company heavily leveraged. We were not in that bad of shape. Tell the whole story Bob.

"Better than six?" In six years we will have lost close to double the jobs lost under the TA. As long as its not you Bob right? Way to go! Show that solidarity stand with you on the no vote but sorry to see you go. "Thanks for your support TUL on the geo pay for JFK! Chuck and I thank you."

Bob, plenty of M&R people left negotiations early, didn't show up, or showed up only when you needed them to vote no. You know the negotiations process and you manipulate it yourself. No you are mad you didn't have the votes. Go figure. You are only happy when you can run the club house.

Bob, I hope WN does well but to be 100% honest, their wage increase were driven by their unusual hedging advantage and explosive growth. Now they are a mature airline and struggling to find new revenue sources. WN is no longer a low cost airline and will be attacked by start ups just like they attacked AA, DL, UA, and US. Its a business cycle and its reality.

 

[Bob Owens]

Do you know what the ARSA is?

And the TWU relies on information from AIRCON for data in Negotiations. Jim Little tells the negotiations committee that the former head of AIRCON, Larry Gibbons, is going to set the company straight in negotiations. Do you know who AIRCON is?

 

[Overspeed]

And when the close TAESL they can increase the Maintenance Spend above 35%. How much more you ask? "accordingly".

Yes that's right. What's your point? How much of TAESL spend is labor? $50M? That's less than 3% increase? If the 3/22 term sheet goes in to affect the 500 jobs that will be lost if TAESL closes will be nothing in comparison to the 2,000 that will be lost. Keep voting no right Bob, it's going to get better.

Here we go Bob, sing it with me. Big finish! Here we go!

The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
Bet your bottom dollar
That tomorrow
There'll be sun!

 

[Raptorman49]

If you have a personal message for Bob plz PM him so the rest of us dont have to get involved with your personal conversation

Personal in the sense that if it falls in this category
Posts by members that are knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law will be removed or edited. If a post or part of a post is removed or edited for one of these reasons, the member's warning level will be increased and a one word/short phrase reason will be listed in the warning system with no personal remarks from the moderator.

I suggest you send it in a personal message so that it stays between you & him or as the rule suggests, your posting privileges will go away .... Your choice. B)

 

[Vortilon]

Nah don't be afraid what's the worse than can happen, you get banned from staying here & insulting people who don't think like you & the rest of us won't miss your temper tantrums ..... no big deal right ? so please continue to insult people, the sooner your on another bulletin board the sooner we can continue a civil conversation

Yeah, I forgot you're the rational one. I mean who wouldn't want to hang out with a guy like you...... right? As far as posting on this BB, talk to me when you've got a little more time on it...1 month pffffft

 

[Bob Owens]

Yep and we had a deal that put us at number 2 in industry pay ahead of UA, CO, DL, and US.

Put who at number 2 in pay? You are using AA's figure which included the MRT. The language would have narrowed the window where MRT was paid to the point where it allowed AA to have 24 hour coverage without having to pay anyone MRT which gave them a $1.50 cushion where they could claim the number two position without actually paying anyone that wage. In reality all of our mechanics could have been recieving wages at the bottom .You also left out that the base A&Ps could have ended up making $4.00 an hour less than their peers but according to AAs figures AA would still be number 2. AA Included the MRT but did not include Taxi Pay or GEO that competitors have either. Normally the spread between the top and bottom is less than $1.50 an hour, certainly much less than $4/hr.

Nice try at revisionist history.

 

[Overspeed]

And the TWU relies on information from AIRCON for data in Negotiations. Jim Little tells the negotiations committee that the former head of AIRCON, Larry Gibbons, is going to set the company straight in negotiations. Do you know who AIRCON is?

Yes I know who AirCon is. A data source that is supplied with information from other management types. Do you have other data that shows different? The pay rates in the TA are consistent with what I have read in their contracts. Your losing it Bob.

The ARSA is a group that is focused on increasing of outsourcing of maintenance work. The ARSA wants the ban on new MRO licenses lifted by the FAA. Why? So they can take more work from airline MROs and drive the existing ones out of business. Why is that important? Well you were pushing AMFA back in 2004 you stated with glee that AMFA was coming and we would get a great deal soon. Now Ken is accepting money from the ARSA who wants to take work from places like TUL, AFW, and DWH and have it sent to fellow ARSA members MROs. MROs like TIMCO, AAR, ATS, AMECO, HAECO, and SAESL to name a few. Interesting that AMFA organizers would align themselves with a group (ARSA) who wants to put airline overhaul shops out of business. Wait a second, AMFA has been instrumental in the destruction of overhaul jobs while getting line AMT pay scales up.

Bob, by urging people to vote no so more overhaul jobs are placed at risk and standing shoulder to shoulder with AMFA organizer Ken (who aligns himself with the ARSA who wants airline MROs out of business) you are furthering your personal agenda of getting line AMTs more money at the cost of overhaul.

That's pretty crappy Bob and Ken. I hope that blood money spends well.

 

[Bob Owens]

And you had system protection, limits on ASMs, and retiree medical stayed intact for those over 50 with a bridge for those 45 to 49. Didn't you read it?

And now you are saying we should vote that all away. On the one hand you say that we should agree to work for over $16000 less than UAL because those low wages will save jobs, now you are saying we should have taken the other deakl because we would be making more money if we did, well if we were making more money then wouldnt that mean we would have to give up even more jobs now? If not please explain your math.