TWU and Teamsters are mirror images of each other.

[riceweevil]

amfa = the typical politician who attacks his opponents continously because they have NOTHING POSITIVE ABOUT THEMSELFS.

amfa is a lost cause who blew their chance at AA in 2003 and 2012 is just a re-run.

 

[comatose]

amfa = the typical politician who attacks his opponents continously because they have NOTHING POSITIVE ABOUT THEMSELFS.

amfa is a lost cause who blew their chance at AA in 2003 and 2012 is just a re-run.

With the help of dead people, retirees, the company and the TWU or vice versa can't tell the last two apart.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

amfa = the typical politician who attacks his opponents continously because they have NOTHING POSITIVE ABOUT THEMSELFS.

amfa is a lost cause who blew their chance at AA in 2003 and 2012 is just a re-run.

Dobby,

Nothing positive about AMFA? How about all officers in AMFA are elected by the membership. All officers live under the contracts they help negotiate. All officers are able to be recalled by the membership that elected them.

Something positive about the twu? International officers are appointed. International officers do not live under the contracts they help negotiate. International officers make 3X what a member makes and doesn't worry about pay/benefit cuts.

 

[riceweevil]

With the help of dead people, retirees, the company and the TWU or vice versa can't tell the last two apart.

amfa might actually get an election at AA if they had any clue how to run a card drive. You are correct that you cannot tell the difference between the TWU and the Company.

 

[xUT]

Always nice to hear from a wanna be.

Wanna be what?
--------
How many times do you have to get your a$$ handed in your hat for your lies and deception before you admit your wrong?
Sorry, wash-rinse-repeat the Razzle Dazzle works with some but not all.
B) xUT

 

[Anomaly]

A Wikipedia reference about an avatar is what you choose to use to refute your proven libelous claims about AMFA and your continued lies about the ability of the IBT to force AA into opening a contract for negotiations. You are barking up the wrong tree. You should be courting the pilots and get them to form a new union. After all, if they did that they could get the contract open for section 6. They have deeper pockets than the TWU members who have suffered through 18 years of concessions.

Oh, by the way:

[font=comic sans ms'] [background=white]Definition of ANOMALY[/background][/font]

[font=comic sans ms']: a deviation from normal especially of a bodily part <the infants demonstrated congenital anomalies> <personality anomalies> (source)[/font]​

Now go back to your playbook and dig up some talking points.

Family Guy dude, I mean no dis-respect, only the exact consideration you display towards me. If it is negative, so be it.

Different opinions make life interesting. I am on this board expressing an alternative view to the majority of members posting here. It is just like being a pro Obama anchor on Fox News. I am OK with that, but your groups continued sole argument of YOU LIED, is getting below childish.

In most of my posts I have added links to state exactly where and how I generated my contradicting opinions. But take note; a difference of opinion, an opposite approach, or a contradiction in expected outcomes does not make one a liar. It just shows that we are all free to believe the way we choose. To dismiss ones beliefs and differing opinions as a lie, shows a genuine level of immaturity and ignorance.

I am of the opinion that the IBT CAN AND WILL reopen the AA contract if chosen to be the representational bargaining agent. This is my educated guess based on information I have been able to find on the web. I am aware of the position of both amfa and the TWU, and I disagree with those two points. I am also aware of the media put out by the NMB and I still believe a compelling case can be made to consider the opposite. I think that the Teamsters have a real argument to their declaration that they will re-open the AA mechanics agreement. I think, based on all these factors, that the Teamsters will be successful.

In the course of events to follow, through legal proceedings or otherwise, I may be proven wrong, but I am certainly not a liar.

 

[Anomaly]

Dobby,

Nothing positive about AMFA? How about all officers in AMFA are elected by the membership. All officers live under the contracts they help negotiate. All officers are able to be recalled by the membership that elected them.

Something positive about the twu? International officers are appointed. International officers do not live under the contracts they help negotiate. International officers make 3X what a member makes and doesn't worry about pay/benefit cuts.

IBT officers are also elected by the membership. In the grand scheme of things, to most members, do you think it really makes a bit of difference? The recall provisions are somewhat appealing in that we had to exercise them at UAL. But this did nothing to repair the damage done. It also was not a perfect tool in that there were others who had their hand in giving things away but through popularity remained in place.

Ken, the bottom line is you keep posting the pipe dreams of amfa as positives, however, you have never experienced life as an amfa member. Talking pints and campaign propaganda are all great fodder for discussions, but at the end of the day none of what you said was truly a positive as a former member under amfa. None of that really mattered.

 

[Anomaly]

Speaking of post dodging, this reply to TSH and SWAMT was side stepped rather well. I'll post it again in case someone would like to discuss this with some level of intelligence (not you Buck....sorry).

Since both of these comments were from former and current amfa members like me, I will try to sum up this subject. amfa does NOT negotiate an agreement unless they are absolutely forced to. This is their past and all three of us who truly know amfa are aware of this. The association does not posses the experience, resources, or finances to enter into sustained negotiations. If the choice is to negotiate or extend, the latter is the normal course of action for this group.

amfa predicates their agreements with excuses on why they will fail. The amfa blame game. With NWA they cried over the lack of support from other unions even after they alienated these unions. With Alaska it was the companies threat to pull out profit sharing unless an extension could be negotiated. With UAL it was the bankruptcy and the accusations of a crooked bankruptcy judge. With SWA in the upcoming negotiations they have already begun laying the ground work of excuses by describing a very lengthy 12 step program before being allowed to strike (although this system did not seem to exist for NWA). They will also surely start using uninspiring reports of the second quarter predictions by annalists for the short term due to a shrinking cost edge with competitors and as LUV deals with a maturing work force/fleet, and lower utilization of aircraft (I predict an extension in their future)

And finally, at AA, amfa is already making the excuses of "it's not our fault" by quickly agreeing with the TWU communications department and proclaiming you are stuck with this for the next six years. How convenient for a group who avoids negotiations. Lawyers who represent the IBT have come out publicly and stated that they do not believe this theory. The Teamsters believe that the negotiations CAN be re-opened and provided a legal opinion to prove it. But then again, he is just a lawyer. A very respected and successful lawyer I might add. Mechanics for amfa are disputing a legal expert on the practice of law, and you wanna follow this advise???

Simply put, I posted a legal opinion in support of the Teamsters notion that they will at least try to do something to get you out of this 6 year agreement. amfa supporters post "Good god people!! Have you not read the release from the TWU. They too, along with AMFA have admitted that the teamsters CANNOT force the company to open negotiations." Perhaps it is a clue?

All in all I would find this a very big contrast in representation tactics. Maybe the title of this thread should read;

TWU and AMFA are mirror images of each other.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

IBT officers are also elected by the membership. In the grand scheme of things, to most members, do you think it really makes a bit of difference? The recall provisions are somewhat appealing in that we had to exercise them at UAL. But this did nothing to repair the damage done. It also was not a perfect tool in that there were others who had their hand in giving things away but through popularity remained in place.

Ken, the bottom line is you keep posting the pipe dreams of amfa as positives, however, you have never experienced life as an amfa member. Talking pints and campaign propaganda are all great fodder for discussions, but at the end of the day none of what you said was truly a positive as a former member under amfa. None of that really mattered.

Teamster officials are all elected by the membership? So David Bourne's name is placed on a ballot along with everyone else in the Airline Division for the full membership to vote for or against?

What pipe dreams am I posting? Oh, you mean facts. Yes, I know. Facts do have a way of making my postings positive. Now scurry away because you're on line and you can have your identity stolen.

 

[TWU informer]

amfa = the typical politician who attacks his opponents continously because they have NOTHING POSITIVE ABOUT THEMSELFS.

amfa is a lost cause who blew their chance at AA in 2003 and 2012 is just a re-run.

There is plenty positive being said. You just have your head buried and cannot hear it.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Speaking of post dodging, this reply to TSH and SWAMT was side stepped rather well. I'll post it again in case someone would like to discuss this with some level of intelligence (not you Buck....sorry).

Dodging? I believe I responded to this post, after which you countered with more nonsensical ibt spin.

Its your obviously ibt biased opinion, nothing more.

 

[Anomaly]

Teamster officials are all elected by the membership? So David Bourne's name is placed on a ballot along with everyone else in the Airline Division for the full membership to vote for or against?

What pipe dreams am I posting? Oh, you mean facts. Yes, I know. Facts do have a way of making my postings positive. Now scurry away because you're on line and you can have your identity stolen.

Yes, Teamster OFFICERS are elected. Within our system, these officers then hire or appoint officials like David Bourne. If he or any other proves to be ineffective, he is simply fired and replaced with some other QUALIIED person. This position, like the Business Agents, should not be assigned by who is the most popular. The person in this position should be selected from a group of the most qualified candidates.

Do you really believe that all elections produce the most qualified person for which they were elected??

Of course not. Popularity and politics play huge in an election process. For so many of you who are afraid you are lied to, you sure open yourselves up for the possibilities of more lies.

David Bourne is NOT a politician. I have had a couple of conversations with him that support that statement. He was hired, and never had to offer lies or promises to get his job. That works out just perfect for me.

At the same time, if he fails to advance us, we will not have to endure a lengthy campaign in order for him to keep his job. Fired happens a lot faster and simpler than recall. If he is not dealt with, his Boss, then looses his election. Checks and balances works for me too.

 

[700UW]

Qualified?

When HP mechanics were IBT the IBT appointed Andy Marshall a UPS package delivery man to negotiate their CBA and represent them.

How is a UPS delivery boy qualified to represent and negotiate for HP Aircraft Mechanics?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Yes, Teamster OFFICERS are elected. Within our system, these officers then hire or appoint officials like David Bourne. If he or any other proves to be ineffective, he is simply fired and replaced with some other QUALIIED person. This position, like the Business Agents, should not be assigned by who is the most popular. The person in this position should be selected from a group of the most qualified candidates.

Do you really believe that all elections produce the most qualified person for which they were elected??

Of course not. Popularity and politics play huge in an election process. For so many of you who are afraid you are lied to, you sure open yourselves up for the possibilities of more lies.

David Bourne is NOT a politician. I have had a couple of conversations with him that support that statement. He was hired, and never had to offer lies or promises to get his job. That works out just perfect for me.

At the same time, if he fails to advance us, we will not have to endure a lengthy campaign in order for him to keep his job. Fired happens a lot faster and simpler than recall. If he is not dealt with, his Boss, then looses his election. Checks and balances works for me too.

Okay then. Thanks for verifying in your own words that the twu and teamsters are mirror images of each other.

gary drummond head of the twu's atd is APPOINTED and NOT ELECTED by the membership.

David Bourne head of the teamsters' Airline Division is APPOINTED and NOT ELECTED by the membership.

bobby gless, don videtich, rick mullings, etc. twu international officers for the twu's atd are APPOINTED and NOT elected by the membership.

teamsters' business agents in the Airline Division are APPOINTED and NOT ELECTED by the membership.

Mirror images. Changing from the twu to the teamsters accomplishes nothing. Neither are democratic.

GO AMFA!

 

[Tex-Mech]

Mirror images. Changing from the twu to the teamsters accomplishes nothing.

Ken-you are wrong about accomplishing nothing. Changing to the Teamsters increases your union $400 a year with no chance of opening up the contract.