TWU and Teamsters are mirror images of each other.

[Anomaly]

Yea nevermind that this "opinion" flies in the face of the NMBs own interpretation, who last time I checked is the governing body in this matter...



Guess you FAIL at common sense.

Good god people!! Have you not read the release from the TWU. They too, along with AMFA have admitted that the teamsters CANNOT force the company to open nego. The company has to agree to a re-opener. AMFA has also said the same thing. Call the damb NMB, they will in fact answer your question for you, and lead you to the written language to confirm it. I know all you teamster lovers want to believeit, and are afraid to get it confirmed. It's all there gentlemen, the infomation you crave is there. Like I said, you guys need to "take the time" to resurch it yourselves to get your answers. The ibt/teamsters will tell you guys anything and everything you guys want to hear to get you to sign a card for them.

Anomaly is a freakin idiot!! His yes anser to opening the contract by legal force after new union wins election is completely and uterally untrue, false, and a complete lie. I am not even an AA mech., get off your a$$es guys and look for the correct answers yourselves. If you do not you will be in the same boat as the UAL/CAL boys---wishing they never, ever voted in the teamsters. The TWU has already put out a letter rebuting the teamsters claim. If you guys still vote in teamsters you all will have to live with them, and "YOU CAN HAVE THEM!!"

Since both of these comments were from former and current amfa members like me, I will try to sum up this subject. amfa does NOT negotiate an agreement unless they are absolutely forced to. This is their past and all three of us who truly know amfa are aware of this. The association does not posses the experience, resources, or finances to enter into sustained negotiations. If the choice is to negotiate or extend, the latter is the normal course of action for this group.

amfa predicates their agreements with excuses on why they will fail. The amfa blame game. With NWA they cried over the lack of support from other unions even after they alienated these unions. With Alaska it was the companies threat to pull out profit sharing unless an extension could be negotiated. With UAL it was the bankruptcy and the accusations of a crooked bankruptcy judge. With SWA in the upcoming negotiations they have already begun laying the ground work of excuses by describing a very lengthy 12 step program before being allowed to strike (although this system did not seem to exist for NWA). They will also surely start using uninspiring reports of the second quarter predictions by annalists for the short term due to a shrinking cost edge with competitors and as LUV deals with a maturing work force/fleet, and lower utilization of aircraft (I predict an extension in their future)

And finally, at AA, amfa is already making the excuses of "it's not our fault" by quickly agreeing with the TWU communications department and proclaiming you are stuck with this for the next six years. How convenient for a group who avoids negotiations. Lawyers who represent the IBT have come out publicly and stated that they do not believe this theory. The Teamsters believe that the negotiations CAN be re-opened and provided a legal opinion to prove it. But then again, he is just a lawyer. A very respected and successful lawyer I might add. Mechanics for amfa are disputing a legal expert on the practice of law, and you wanna follow this advise???

Simply put, I posted a legal opinion in support of the Teamsters notion that they will at least try to do something to get you out of this 6 year agreement. amfa supporters post "Good god people!! Have you not read the release from the TWU. They too, along with AMFA have admitted that the teamsters CANNOT force the company to open negotiations." Perhaps it is a clue?

All in all I would find this a very big contrast in representation tactics. Maybe the title of this thread should read;

TWU and AMFA are mirror images of each other.

 

[Anomaly]

TWU and AMFA are mirror images of each other.

Maybe I should have just said this in the beginning ???

(to all my TWU friends, I apologize for the insult. I do not really believe that)

 

[4A Mechanic]

So your telling us the IBt could have reopened your contract negotiations after electing them to represent you at UAL, but didn't, because the timing wasnt right? Do I have that right? Who's timing was off not to reopen?

 

[Anomaly]

So your telling us the IBt could have reopened your contract negotiations after electing them to represent you at UAL, but didn't, because the timing wasnt right? Do I have that right? Who's timing was off not to reopen?

Your inept comments are truly irritating. This was answered even before you posted the question.

Still, at UAL I am now making more money than I ever had. Add in some OT and field work, and I will easily match and surpass those SWA employees. We did good with the Teamsters at UAL. We are in the middle of negotiating our second contract for even more advances. I do not see a lot of complaints outside of this venue. I would say out timing for negotiations at UAL was perfect.

 

[Tex-Mech]

Your inept comments are truly irritating. This was answered even before you posted the question.

Still, at UAL I am now making more money than I ever had. Add in some OT and field work, and I will easily match and surpass those SWA employees. We did good with the Teamsters at UAL. We are in the middle of negotiating our second contract for even more advances. I do not see a lot of complaints outside of this venue. I would say out timing for negotiations at UAL was perfect.

Doesn't UAL still have mechanics on layoff? Why would a union organizer be working OT and Field Work when their are union brothers on the street. Do the Teamsters lack the basic understanding of what a union is supposed to do when they have members on the street, or do you just go door to door and use them for card signing only?

 

[Anomaly]

Since both of these comments were from former and current amfa members like me, I will try to sum up this subject. amfa does NOT negotiate an agreement unless they are absolutely forced to. This is their past and all three of us who truly know amfa are aware of this. The association does not posses the experience, resources, or finances to enter into sustained negotiations. If the choice is to negotiate or extend, the latter is the normal course of action for this group.

amfa predicates their agreements with excuses on why they will fail. The amfa blame game. With NWA they cried over the lack of support from other unions even after they alienated these unions. With Alaska it was the companies threat to pull out profit sharing unless an extension could be negotiated. With UAL it was the bankruptcy and the accusations of a crooked bankruptcy judge. With SWA in the upcoming negotiations they have already begun laying the ground work of excuses by describing a very lengthy 12 step program before being allowed to strike (although this system did not seem to exist for NWA). They will also surely start using uninspiring reports of the second quarter predictions by annalists for the short term due to a shrinking cost edge with competitors and as LUV deals with a maturing work force/fleet, and lower utilization of aircraft (I predict an extension in their future)

And finally, at AA, amfa is already making the excuses of "it's not our fault" by quickly agreeing with the TWU communications department and proclaiming you are stuck with this for the next six years. How convenient for a group who avoids negotiations. Lawyers who represent the IBT have come out publicly and stated that they do not believe this theory. The Teamsters believe that the negotiations CAN be re-opened and provided a legal opinion to prove it. But then again, he is just a lawyer. A very respected and successful lawyer I might add. Mechanics for amfa are disputing a legal expert on the practice of law, and you wanna follow this advise???

Simply put, I posted a legal opinion in support of the Teamsters notion that they will at least try to do something to get you out of this 6 year agreement. amfa supporters post "Good god people!! Have you not read the release from the TWU. They too, along with AMFA have admitted that the teamsters CANNOT force the company to open negotiations." Perhaps it is a clue?

All in all I would find this a very big contrast in representation tactics. Maybe the title of this thread should read;

TWU and AMFA are mirror images of each other.

Doesn't UAL still have mechanics on layoff? Why would a union organizer be working OT and Field Work when their are union brothers on the street. Do the Teamsters lack the basic understanding of what a union is supposed to do when they have members on the street, or do you just go door to door and use them for card signing only?

And this has what do do with my post?? If you are trying to suggest I am a union organizer, you are mistaken again. Are all the members on this board organizers? Are you?

To your point, however, there are different philosophies to the lay off vs OT question. I used to think like you did and refused OT while brothers were furloughed. I did this until I was furloughed myself. What I realized then, was that if the OT was not worked, driving the cost of normal operation up, I was not going to be recalled any quicker. More likely, the company would simply look for someone else to do the work outside of our agreement thus delaying my recall even further.

As one who was on the streets for a fair amount of time, I can say I have no issue whatsoever with fellow members working OT. I think in the long run it helps us both.

Tell me about YOUR PERSONAL lay off and how OT affected you. Maybe after listening to your FIRST HAND experiences, MAYBE, I will have a change of thought. Until that time, you are once again talking through your hat.

http://www.phrases.o...h-your-hat.html

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

A few counter points....

Since both of these comments were from former and current amfa members like me, I will try to sum up this subject. amfa does NOT negotiate an agreement unless they are absolutely forced to. This is their past and all three of us who truly know amfa are aware of this. The association does not posses the experience, resources, or finances to enter into sustained negotiations. If the choice is to negotiate or extend, the latter is the normal course of action for this group.

Simply put, I disagree with what amounts to nothing more than your opinion.

amfa predicates their agreements with excuses on why they will fail. The amfa blame game. With NWA they cried over the lack of support from other unions even after they alienated these unions. With Alaska it was the companies threat to pull out profit sharing unless an extension could be negotiated. With UAL it was the bankruptcy and the accusations of a crooked bankruptcy judge. With SWA in the upcoming negotiations they have already begun laying the ground work of excuses by describing a very lengthy 12 step program before being allowed to strike (although this system did not seem to exist for NWA). They will also surely start using uninspiring reports of the second quarter predictions by annalists for the short term due to a shrinking cost edge with competitors and as LUV deals with a maturing work force/fleet, and lower utilization of aircraft (I predict an extension in their future)

Yeah, and the ibt blamed Frontier on bankruptcy, and tried to blame their failure at Horizon on AMFA, and UAL didn't open the contract early because of oil, and no pension because of a small vocal minority etc etc......I can go on if you like.

And finally, at AA, amfa is already making the excuses of "it's not our fault" by quickly agreeing with the TWU communications department and proclaiming you are stuck with this for the next six years. How convenient for a group who avoids negotiations. Lawyers who represent the IBT have come out publicly and stated that they do not believe this theory. The Teamsters believe that the negotiations CAN be re-opened and provided a legal opinion to prove it. But then again, he is just a lawyer. A very respected and successful lawyer I might add. Mechanics for amfa are disputing a legal expert on the practice of law, and you wanna follow this advise???

Simply put, I posted a legal opinion in support of the Teamsters notion that they will at least try to do something to get you out of this 6 year agreement. amfa supporters post "Good god people!! Have you not read the release from the TWU. They too, along with AMFA have admitted that the teamsters CANNOT force the company to open negotiations." Perhaps it is a clue?

All in all I would find this a very big contrast in representation tactics. Maybe the title of this thread should read;

TWU and AMFA are mirror images of each other.

The teamsters believe?... Really?... Mechanics for AMFA are disputing the teamsters lawyer because they can READ A REPORT! A report written by the NMB, the governing body and ultimately the last word in this issue, which clearly contradicts the ibt lawyers dubious opinion.

 

[Buck]

Anomaly what does your fight with Third Seat Hero have to do with the mechanics at AA?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Anomaly what does your fight with Third Seat Hero have to do with the mechanics at AA?

A valid question.

Apologies, for my part I will try to keep comments on topic.

TSH

 

[Anomaly]

A few counter points....



Simply put, I disagree with what amounts to nothing more than your opinion.




Yeah, and the ibt blamed Frontier on bankruptcy, and tried to blame their failure at Horizon on AMFA, and UAL didn't open the contract early because of oil, and no pension because of a small vocal minority etc etc......I can go on if you like.




The teamsters believe?... Really?... Mechanics for AMFA are disputing the teamsters lawyer because they can READ A REPORT! A report written by the NMB, the governing body and ultimately the last word in this issue, which clearly contradicts the ibt lawyers dubious opinion.

The difference with both Frontier and Horizon, is that the Teamsters stuck by both and both have a contract. In fact, Horizons is industry leading for their category, and Frontier offered protections that could not be side stepped. Both fared well in spite of the opposition against them.

Of course you can read a report. I should hope you can. I can too, but just because I can read a consent decree, a moving violation, divorce papers, or a NMB ruling, does not mean I have the where with all to launch an adequate legal defense. Are you implying that a government body is free from dispute?? Wrong country THS. Suits and counters to policy are launched all the time.

The Teamsters obviously do not agree with the findings of the TWU, nor the amfa legal experts on this page. Until either proven in court, or dropped by the IBT, I will take what I read at face value. An IBT legal expert has proclaimed that a section 6 opener is possible after a change in representational status.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

You are pandering now. You have been proven to be a liar. It sounds like you want the TWU member to vote you in so they can pay for your windmill chase.

 

[Anomaly]

Anomaly what does your fight with Third Seat Hero have to do with the mechanics at AA?

It is right on point buck -o. If you had read closely I was stating the the similarities of the two unions are more likely the TWU and amfa (once again, sorry for the insult TWU).

 

[Anomaly]

You are pandering now. You have been proven to be a liar. It sounds like you want the TWU member to vote you in so they can pay for your windmill chase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Quagmire

The name Quagmire was chosen by a college acquaintance of MacFarlane's;[sup] [/sup]the word quagmire refers to both a soft soil that yields easily (such as quicksand), and a situation that is difficult to get out of. The title of the infidelity-themed episode "The Cleveland–Loretta Quagmire" plays on the second meaning. MacFarlane came up with Quagmire's voice after listening to fast-talking radio jockeys from the 1950s era, describing the character as a "50s radio guy on coke."[sup] [/sup]The "giggity" phrase was inspired by Steve Marmel's Jerry Lewis impression.[sup] [/sup]Quagmire's home follows the same retro theme, decked out in a style reminiscent of the swinging party set of the 1950s and '60s; nearly every part of the house has a discreetly hidden bed. It has been revealed in some episodes that Quagmire has a foot fetish.[sup] [/sup]Quagmire drives a 1957 Chevrolet Bel Air convertible, which Peter Griffin later destroys in "Airport '07" after he accidentally reverses his pickup truck into it.

So hard to take you with any notion of seriousness.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

A Wikipedia reference about an avatar is what you choose to use to refute your proven libelous claims about AMFA and your continued lies about the ability of the IBT to force AA into opening a contract for negotiations. You are barking up the wrong tree. You should be courting the pilots and get them to form a new union. After all, if they did that they could get the contract open for section 6. They have deeper pockets than the TWU members who have suffered through 18 years of concessions.

Oh, by the way:

[font=comic sans ms'] [background=white]Definition of ANOMALY[/background][/font]

[font=comic sans ms']: a deviation from normal especially of a bodily part <the infants demonstrated congenital anomalies> <personality anomalies> (source)[/font]​

Now go back to your playbook and dig up some talking points.

 

[DNTULSA]

http://en.wikipedia..../Glenn_Quagmire

The name Quagmire was chosen by a college acquaintance of MacFarlane's;[sup] [/sup]the word quagmire refers to both a soft soil that yields easily (such as quicksand), and a situation that is difficult to get out of. The title of the infidelity-themed episode "The Cleveland&ndash;Loretta Quagmire" plays on the second meaning. MacFarlane came up with Quagmire's voice after listening to fast-talking radio jockeys from the 1950s era, describing the character as a "50s radio guy on coke."[sup] [/sup]The "giggity" phrase was inspired by Steve Marmel's Jerry Lewis impression.[sup] [/sup]Quagmire's home follows the same retro theme, decked out in a style reminiscent of the swinging party set of the 1950s and '60s; nearly every part of the house has a discreetly hidden bed. It has been revealed in some episodes that Quagmire has a foot fetish.[sup] [/sup]Quagmire drives a 1957 Chevrolet Bel Air convertible, which Peter Griffin later destroys in "Airport '07" after he accidentally reverses his pickup truck into it.

So hard to take you with any notion of seriousness.

Look who's talking !!!!

You are truly full of it! (what you are full of rhymes with the word it!)