Tulsa

[767 mechanic]

"Yes, I remember that, but the AMFA contract had great pay and outsourcing, and the TWU 2001 contract had even better pay and no outsourcing. The end result was that the TWU contract was better then the AMFA contract, but AA was a much better airline then NWA. There are a lot of factors to consider. "

Definitely arguable.....

You left out somethings. The old contract under the iam allowed 100% outsourcing as long as there were no layoffs. Which was stupid do to attrition eventually doing away with everybody. The AMFA put a 40% cap on that. The twu had a 20 or 22% if I remember correctly. I bet that % is going to grow well above 40% in the near future. As far as pay goes the twu allowed our negotiations to slow to a crawl to allow the AMFA to raise the bar because they new that if they did not get a better contract they would be gone from the property at aa. The former president at afw (Joe Hasen) had informed many of the members that we would be lucky if we achieved $29 Hr at the end of the contract. The funny thing is he said this before the AMFA achieved there contract and then all of a sudden we topped out at $35.89 an hour (base pay and license prem) at the end of the contract. We also recieved 12 sick days,up from the previouse 10,but the AMFA had already gotten that also. The bottom line is the twu rode another unions coat tails again.

 

[Buck]

Push: Southwest Forum

AMFA and IBT (AIR TRAN)

No on seniority integration!

 

[FWAAA]

I keep reading on how were being compared to SWA's mechanics pay. Question, Does SW pay rates differ between their Oh and Line? If not, why should we?

According to Southwest, its mechanics do not perform heavy airframe overhaul:

The Company performs substantially all line maintenance on its aircraft and provides ground support services at most of the airports it serves. However, the Company has arrangements with certain aircraft maintenance firms for major component inspections and repairs for its airframes and engines, which comprise the majority of the Company’s annual aircraft maintenance costs.

Page 36 of 2011 10-K: http://www.fuelteam.wallst.com/modules/secfilings/drawFiling.asp?docKey=136-000119312512049647-78H1ENULTC34KBNHGKB6F132BC&formType=10-K&date=2/9/2012&docFormat=PDF (page 39 of .pdf)

Sounds like WN does line maintenance and light letter checks (A, B and C) inhouse but does not perform D checks.

The WN mechanics' contract does not distinguish between those performing line maintenance and those performing letter checks.

 

[FWAAA]

duplicate

 

[Flying low]

According to Southwest, its mechanics do not perform heavy airframe overhaul:



Page 36 of 2011 10-K: http://www.fuelteam.wallst.com/modules/secfilings/drawFiling.asp?docKey=136-000119312512049647-78H1ENULTC34KBNHGKB6F132BC&formType=10-K&date=2/9/2012&docFormat=PDF (page 39 of .pdf)

Sounds like WN does line maintenance and light letter checks (A, B and C) inhouse but does not perform D checks.

The WN mechanics' contract does not distinguish between those performing line maintenance and those performing letter checks.

Yes, we all now their heavy check go out of country. But, are their "B & C" checks comparable to ours? Do they do them in a Dallas hanger? If so, then do their AMT doing B & C checks make the same amount as their line AMT's? I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression that SW's line AMT's perform other work functions besides aircraft maintenance? If so, would AA's line AMT work to the same rules as SW or are AA's line AMT's to good for that?

 

[strikeforce]

Yes, we all now their heavy check go out of country. But, are their "B & C" checks comparable to ours? Do they do them in a Dallas hanger? If so, then do their AMT doing B & C checks make the same amount as their line AMT's? I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression that SW's line AMT's perform other work functions besides aircraft maintenance? If so, would AA's line AMT work to the same rules as SW or are AA's line AMT's to good for that?

you almost make it sound that if AA line amt's don't work to SW rules then we're NOT worth $45/hr???

Look, since nobody seems to know what MRO's charge airlines everyone assumes MRO's are cheaper than in-house maintenance. That seems to be the case because ALL airlines went the way of the MRO, right??

Then, I believe the intent of this topic is to show the Tulsa boys that MRO's have won the battle, and unless they are willing to work for MRO wages, OH is gone. That's the alternative!

The union has two choices:

1. Let AA turn Tulsa into their own MRO, and have 5K OSM's making $20-25/hr...equal to MRO pay.

2. Fight like hell to preserve the remaining amt's, specifically Line amt's, and go after the highest wages in the industry. Yes, WN & UPS wages.

I don't know what else the union has at it's disposal, right now!

If the TWU, IAM, AMFA, and IBT want to represent airline workers in the future, they better get their act together and eliminate the competition either politically or thru representation of the MRO mechanics, thereby driving their costs higher. Otherwise, they're done!!

 

[Birdman]

According to Southwest, its mechanics do not perform heavy airframe overhaul:

Sounds like WN does line maintenance and light letter checks (A, B and C) inhouse but does not perform D checks.

The WN mechanics' contract does not distinguish between those performing line maintenance and those performing letter checks.

All I know is what their contract says:
Article 2:Scope
5. Southwest Airlines Mechanics shall continue to perform the existing three Heavy lines that are currently being conducted at Southwest Airlines facilities. Upon reaching a net fleet size of 621 airplanes the Company will add a fourth line of heavy maintenance.

Perhaps a WN mechanic can define " heavy maintenance".

 

[lineguy]

Yes, we all now their heavy check go out of country. But, are their "B & C" checks comparable to ours? Do they do them in a Dallas hanger? If so, then do their AMT doing B & C checks make the same amount as their line AMT's? I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression that SW's line AMT's perform other work functions besides aircraft maintenance? If so, would AA's line AMT work to the same rules as SW or are AA's line AMT's to good for that?

One pay scale for mechanics. Line AMT's only do aircraft maint. At least at the big stations. I think quarter D's and 1/2 D's are done in Dallas. With the addition of AT aircraft a fourth line is supposed to start.
'C' checks and cabin visits are done in Hou, Dal, Phx, and MDW.

 

[strikeforce]

One pay scale for mechanics. Line AMT's only do aircraft maint. At least at the big stations. I think quarter D's and 1/2 D's are done in Dallas. With the addition of AT aircraft a fourth line is supposed to start.
'C' checks and cabin visits are done in Hou, Dal, Phx, and MDW.

just so we're on the same page,

AA 737 B check done with approx 15-20 mechanics and a/c done in 8 hrs at a line station.

AA 737 A check done with 2 mechanics on RON at line stations.

would our A & B checks equate to your C check or D check???

If so, that's all Line work at AA!

 

[lineguy]

just so we're on the same page,

AA 737 B check done with approx 15-20 mechanics and a/c done in 8 hrs at a line station.

AA 737 A check done with 2 mechanics on RON at line stations.

would our A & B checks equate to your C check or D check???

If so, that's all Line work at AA!

Your A ck sounds the same as ours, 2 mechanics. Your B ck sounds like our cabin visits. I think they do 2 a night with the C ck crew.

 

[strikeforce]

Your A ck sounds the same as ours, 2 mechanics. Your B ck sounds like our cabin visits. I think they do 2 a night with the C ck crew.

So, your D check is considered OH????

 

[lineguy]

So, your D check is considered OH????

That would be the highest level check done in house.

 

[strikeforce]

That would be the highest level check done in house.

What's nice about your scope language is that there are "hard numbers" to protect the amt's. It specifically mentions "three" heavy lines and 621 a/c that triggers additional checks. our language has many loopholes and outs for the company. It's probably one of the reason's why WE wanted AMFA to represent our amt's. They only represent amt's!! Too bad Tulsa can't see that!

 

[Buck]

What's nice about your scope language is that there are "hard numbers" to protect the amt's. It specifically mentions "three" heavy lines and 621 a/c that triggers additional checks. our language has many loopholes and outs for the company. It's probably one of the reason's why WE wanted AMFA to represent our amt's. They only represent amt's!! Too bad Tulsa can't see that!

It is not that many AMT's in TUL cannot see the need for change and would do so. It is the TWU who is "protecting" the TUL workforce. The TWU is very good at one thing, that is to instill fear into the masses. I remember one imcident. One old timer came up to me and got into my face and said something to the effect, paraphasing: If you destroy my pension I will kill you. I am not sure if he used the word kill, but his point was clear.

I have yet to see a major push by line maintenance within the law, attempt to seperate from OH. There only seems to be a half a dozen or so on this board that are vocal. Where are the your numbers and facts showing how a seperation could be accomplished?

 

[strikeforce]

It is not that many AMT's in TUL cannot see the need for change and would do so. It is the TWU who is "protecting" the TUL workforce. The TWU is very good at one thing, that is to instill fear into the masses. I remember one imcident. One old timer came up to me and got into my face and said something to the effect, paraphasing: If you destroy my pension I will kill you. I am not sure if he used the word kill, but his point was clear.

I have yet to see a major push by line maintenance within the law, attempt to seperate from OH. There only seems to be a half a dozen or so on this board that are vocal. Where are the your numbers and facts showing how a seperation could be accomplished?

You're question is more geared towards the AMFA and AMP organizers to show what percentage of Line and OH voted in favor of seperation. Where's AA Pitbull?? I think AMP came up 1000 short and AMFA was real close until the TWU and AA started adding dead people to the list, right?

Look, you're finally seeing the ramifications of listening to the TWU. Right now, it's too late in the ball game to re-organize with AMP or AMFA because our contract will be destroyed either voluntarily or by the judge. When Tulsa had the chance to seperate, you chose the TWU....good for you!

Line maintenance can only do so much within the law.....WE are not the majority, yet. And, when WE are the majority....I guarantee the TWU will be GONE!! That's if I stick around.

You know Buck, why is it that 2K to 3K line amt's can see right thru the TWU and 5K to 6K can't?? We get the same threats, but WE ignore those threats and move forward by signing those cards anyway. I mean, how bad can change be compared to what WE are about to experience, right?