Todays Slideshow

[Imjustsayin]

Have you posed this questions to your "friends"? You know, the ones that work for AA who are happy with their pay, benefits and leadership.
I'm sure they will give you the answer you are looking for!
[/quote

I was hoping someone who had an idea might respond - instead I get the mud wrestler!
I did talk to my friends, they were curious as well, so...

Why don't you guys just shorten the length of the deal, find a couple items that AA is looking for (and that you can live with), get some money, and pick up your fight later when "maybe" the economy and the industry looks better?

 

[eolesen]

I'd love for my house to be worth what it was 8 years ago, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get that much for it if I have to sell tomorrow...

I know you guys expect restore and more, but 3% of something is better than 20% of nothing.

 

[AV1]

I'd love for my house to be worth what it was 8 years ago, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get that much for it if I have to sell tomorrow...

I know you guys expect restore and more, but 3% of something is better than 20% of nothing.

EXACTLY

 

[AANOTOK]

Imjustsayin, your concern it's greatly appreciated. Seriously!

 

[Mr Red]

I'd love for my house to be worth what it was 8 years ago, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get that much for it if I have to sell tomorrow...

I know you guys expect restore and more, but 3% of something is better than 20% of nothing.

Must be a student of FUZZY math.We just want our share of the big PONZI scheme!!

 

[eolesen]

Must be a student of FUZZY math.We just want our share of the big PONZI scheme!!

No, nothing fuzzy about the math on my property tax valuations... go dig up your statements for 2003, 2006, and 2009. Then find yourself a beer or something a little more potent.

I freely admit I have nothing to gain here, but you're in a war of attrition here. The company knows it.

In the 1Q transcript, Gerard is quoted as saying the following:

"Looking across the industry, 19 of 30 major contracts are either already amendable or will become amendable by the end of this year. And among the 11 remaining contracts that extend into 2012 and beyond, 9 of those agreements are at carriers currently involved in mergers. And as a result, they will also likely be looking to sign new, integrated agreements in the near term. So simply put, almost the entire industry is either in negotiations as we speak, or will be very soon."

I know it's a shock, but I'm not an optimist when it comes to labor having the upper hand right now. The longer it drags out, the longer the company enjoys their 2003 contract, and the longer it will be before you guys can try to play leapfrog on whatever those 19 contracts manage to gain.

 

[TWU informer]

I know it's a shock, but I'm not an optimist when it comes to labor having the upper hand right now. The longer it drags out, the longer the company enjoys their 2003 contract, and the longer it will be before you guys can try to play leapfrog on whatever those 19 contracts manage to gain.

Could be a valid strategy allowing other unions than the TWU to negotiated first. At least maybe we will stop going backwards. Leapfrog sounds better than needing a safety net to stop the perpetual fall.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm not sure exactly what the TWU current table postion is, but why don't you guys just shorten the length of the deal, find a couple items that AA is looking for (and that you can live with), get some money, and pick up your fight later when "maybe" the economy and the industry looks better?

Yeah, that'll work...

 

[767 mechanic]

I have a suggestion for everybody. Go to your total value on jetnet and divide that by the total hours worked for the year and see what you come up with. These are all the companys numbers. I work alot of o/t so I am probably in the 70% to 80% range on the scale of total value(just guessing). What the company said in the power point presentation from what I can see is about $2 hr in what they pay our pension. Bob correct me if I am wrong. On the total value on jetnet it tells me that they only put about 50 cents an hour in to my pension,so is the neg team being lied to or is the company lieing to us on jetnet on the total value statement. The last statement was for the year 2009. I ran the numbers for myself and found that it cost AA $40 Hr to keep me on the property with benefits and total wages. This is less than SW, UPS and Fed Ex pay their emp in just wages. They charge $92 dollars an hour for third party work atleast that is what they were charging in 2003 and 2004. I don't want to hear any crap from the company suck ups about cost per avaiable seat miles due to the fact that those numbers are skewed by third party work like Taesl.

 

[FWAAA]

I have a suggestion for everybody. Go to your total value on jetnet and divide that by the total hours worked for the year and see what you come up with. These are all the companys numbers. I work alot of o/t so I am probably in the 70% to 80% range on the scale of total value(just guessing). What the company said in the power point presentation from what I can see is about $2 hr in what they pay our pension. Bob correct me if I am wrong.

The amount of cash contributed to the pensions varies each year, depending on the value of the assets in the plans. In 2011, AA expects to contribute $520 million to the pensions. In 2010, AA contributed $466 million in cash to the pensions. In 2009, AA contributed $10 million to the pensions.

On the total value on jetnet it tells me that they only put about 50 cents an hour in to my pension,so is the neg team being lied to or is the company lieing to us on jetnet on the total value statement. The last statement was for the year 2009.

2009 was the year that AA contributed just $10 million to the pensions. In 2010, AA contributed 46 times that amount and in 2011, AA expects to contribute 52 times that amount. Wonder if that accounts for the difference you saw?

I ran the numbers for myself and found that it cost AA $40 Hr to keep me on the property with benefits and total wages. This is less than SW, UPS and Fed Ex pay their emp in just wages. They charge $92 dollars an hour for third party work atleast that is what they were charging in 2003 and 2004. I don't want to hear any crap from the company suck ups about cost per avaiable seat miles due to the fact that those numbers are skewed by third party work like Taesl.

Third party work accounts for a trivial amount of the difference in labor costs between AA and its competitors. Delta has far more third party work and revenue, and wages for its third party work accounts for just $0.0030 per ASM. That said, maintenance isn't where the bulk of AA's labor cost disadvantage resides - that honor belongs to the pilots and FAs, both of whom are substantially more expensive than pilots and FAs at most other airlines. Bob posted the other day that maintenance accounts for only about $100 million of the $600 million claimed cost disadvantage.

 

[odie01]

Third party work accounts for a trivial amount of the difference in labor costs between AA and its competitors. Delta has far more third party work and revenue, and wages for its third party work accounts for just $0.0030 per ASM. That said, maintenance isn't where the bulk of AA's labor cost disadvantage resides - that honor belongs to the pilots and FAs, both of whom are substantially more expensive than pilots and FAs at most other airlines. Bob posted the other day that maintenance accounts for only about $100 million of the $600 million claimed cost disadvantage.

That being said AA maintenence pay and benefits lags well behind industry standard, and we still generate revenue from third party work./

 

[Bob Owens]

But why don't you guys just shorten the length of the deal, find a couple items that AA is looking for (and that you can live with), get some money, and pick up your fight later when "maybe" the economy and the industry looks better?

Under our current 4 year offer we would present section 6 openers in November of this year.

 

[Bob Owens]

No, nothing fuzzy about the math on my property tax valuations... go dig up your statements for 2003, 2006, and 2009. Then find yourself a beer or something a little more potent.

I freely admit I have nothing to gain here, but you're in a war of attrition here. The company knows it.

In the 1Q transcript, Gerard is quoted as saying the following:



I know it's a shock, but I'm not an optimist when it comes to labor having the upper hand right now. The longer it drags out, the longer the company enjoys their 2003 contract, and the longer it will be before you guys can try to play leapfrog on whatever those 19 contracts manage to gain.

If you are" not an optimist when it comes to labor having the upper hand" then that means that you think that labor has the upper hand, and I agree. We do have the upper hand.

By the way in 2003 my property taxes were less than $6000, in 2010 it was over $11,000, over that same period of time my pay went down in absolute terms, down 40% when inflation is factored in. However the attrition part is over, my wife returned to work, and since she earns around $6/hr more than me I'm no longer the primary breadwinner. Most of my coworkers are similarly positioned. I can take the risk, can the company?

The fact is the pressure is on the company to move now. If they dont move then the mediator would have cause to release us, (we asked to be released over a year ago) after all the company admitted that their last offer (the failed TA)is inferior in virtually all respects to the UAL TA. Lower pay, 8 holidays at 2x vs 10 holidays at 2.5x for UA, 7-32 vacation days vs 10-35 for UA, 8 sick days vs 10 sick days for UA, 10 IOD vs 87.5 IOD for UA(the company chart bis wrong), $3k for family medical coverage vs ZERO for medical coverage at UAL. And thats just money, better language on discipline, CS's, bumping etc, etc. The company admitted that things had shifted since our TA. One major fau paux was when the company claimed that the reason why our Pay, Medical, Vacation, sick time, IOD and Holidays were inferior was because "AA offers a very generous pension and retiree health plan". The problem with that claim is that for the last two years the mediator has heard the company claim that those two concessions would be "cost neutral".

They have till June 5 before things shift even more.When UAL mechanics reject the TA things will really heat up. If our deal is still open June 5 the UAL deal is cooked, they arent going to ratify a deal for $35 when we are asking for $43. If AA doesnt get a deal in place soon, as Arpey pointed out, AA will be in a situation where other deals are open as well, where employees of once Bankrupt carriers that are now showing profits are seeking to regain what they lost, we will see leapfrogging negotiations.

 

[odie01]

When UAL mechanics reject the TA things will shift even further.

Bob I have a copy of the UA TA and it's looks sub par to Continentals current contract, why is that, when they are now merged, and have the same union? Also, if AA hands us a polished turd on the 13th, will we ask for a release?

 

[toroshark]

The amount of cash contributed to the pensions varies each year, depending on the value of the assets in the plans. In 2011, AA expects to contribute $520 million to the pensions. In 2010, AA contributed $466 million in cash to the pensions. In 2009, AA contributed $10 million to the pensions.



2009 was the year that AA contributed just $10 million to the pensions. In 2010, AA contributed 46 times that amount and in 2011, AA expects to contribute 52 times that amount. Wonder if that accounts for the difference you saw?



Third party work accounts for a trivial amount of the difference in labor costs between AA and its competitors. Delta has far more third party work and revenue, and wages for its third party work accounts for just $0.0030 per ASM. That said, maintenance isn't where the bulk of AA's labor cost disadvantage resides - that honor belongs to the pilots and FAs, both of whom are substantially more expensive than pilots and FAs at most other airlines. Bob posted the other day that maintenance accounts for only about $100 million of the $600 million claimed cost disadvantage.

If maintenance is not where the supposive cost disadvantage is then why not PAY US?