BOS-LHR downgraded to 757

[Barfbag]

Aside from using an eVIP if given the opportunity to redeem/earn AA miles on BA (w/ fuel surcharge) I can't understand why anyone would take AA's dumpy 757 over BA 777 or 747 with better, more professional in-flight service.

Josh

You don't get it, Sir. Willie Walch, the head of BA/IB/AA Joint business, makes these decisions.

On LHR routes, BA will take the high-end passengers, we'll take the commission through AA.com.

AA may even pull out of the LHR F/C market entirely. Use the 777 F/C to less competitive cities in South America.

 

[Frank Szabo]

You don't get it, Sir. Willie Walch, the head of BA/IB/AA Joint business, makes these decisions.

On LHR routes, BA will take the high-end passengers, we'll take the commission through AA.com.

AA may even pull out of the LHR F/C market entirely. Use the 777 F/C to less competitive cities in South America.

Mr. Barfbag:

Quit responding to this fool and he might go away - I have.

 

[eolesen]

Would you be so kind as to explain why, in your opinion, the 75L biz seats are the "lowest quality seat in AA's fleet"?

In my view, they're vastly superior to the 763 biz seat because they're wider, they feature 110v power plugs and they feature built-in IFE. The 763 biz seat's only advantage are the DG pairs where everyone has direct aisle access.

They are, but I doubt WT has actually sat in either seat, much less slept in one, and is probably not informed enough to make a credible judgement call either way...

I, on the other hand, spent last night in the 763 seat, and it is (still) absolute crap. I haven't flown on the new 757 yet, but a moldy Boy Scout cot would be more comfortable than the AA 763 J seat.

By comparison, flying on a LAN 763 this week into GRU, I had real lie flat (not wedgie angled flat and only if you don't have a carry-on bag) with a universal power plug and a 18" flat screen with tethered remote (as opposed to a 12V plug which you can't use if you have the portable IFE that slides into the back of the clamshell).

I could go on, but it would be like clubbing baby seals. From people who have traveled in both, the 757 appears to be a vast improvement.

And WT, AA may have taken "75% of a 757's capacity out" but they've maintained decent frequencies.

You're smart enough to know that schedule is what attracts business travelers, not the ability to be surrounded by 25-50% more flatulence.

I have it from the director level at DL that they had other plans for the shells flying to BOS and MIA, and didn't get the impression that they really cared so much about meeting AA tit for tat. They actually are under pressure to fly full planes, and this ain't gonna cut it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

They are, but I doubt WT has actually sat in either seat, much less slept in one, and is probably not informed enough to make a credible judgement call either way...

I, on the other hand, spent last night in the 763 seat, and it is (still) absolute crap. I haven't flown on the new 757 yet, but a moldy Boy Scout cot would be more comfortable than the AA 763 J seat.

By comparison, flying on a LAN 763 this week into GRU, I had real lie flat (not wedgie angled flat and only if you don't have a carry-on bag) with a universal power plug and a 18" flat screen with tethered remote (as opposed to a 12V plug which you can't use if you have the portable IFE that slides into the back of the clamshell).

I could go on, but it would be like clubbing baby seals. From people who have traveled in both, the 757 appears to be a vast improvement.

And WT, AA may have taken "75% of a 757's capacity out" but they've maintained decent frequencies.

You're smart enough to know that schedule is what attracts business travelers, not the ability to be surrounded by 25-50% more flatulence.

I have it from the director level at DL that they had other plans for the shells flying to BOS and MIA, and didn't get the impression that they really cared so much about meeting AA tit for tat. They actually are under pressure to fly full planes, and this ain't gonna cut it.

I'll leave it to you to assess AA's premium products but the fact that you don't rate either terribly high confirms that AA isn't competitive w/ its alliance partner let alone DL which is coming into market.
If AA wants to keep the frequencies in the market, that is of course their decision and one which AA will share in the losses.. but it does say that AA is pulling back its capacity in light of DL's capacity additions.
We have seen other cases such as secondary Brazil markets and JFK-EZE where DL made the decision to pull back against the "irrationality" of AA in keeping flights that clearly didn't then and perhaps even now don't make money yet AA was interested in maintaining market share.
That kind of stuff happens and the point is merely that AA is seeing its influence continue to shrink in many market groups outside of Latin America. The strategic implications of that are quite significant.

I'm not sure what your point is in continuing to push the notion that DL really doesn't want to fly the route - but I fully acknowledge that alliance politics cause carriers to do things that one partner doesn't think is necessarily in the best interest.
I have acknowledged that DL doesn't really want to add as much capacity to LHR as they are this summer which speaks to the fact that although is the most aggressive of the network carriers in expanding, they are not willing to throw planes around solely for the purpose of strategic plans that cannot generate profits. There are some who would do well to note that you are supporting my notion that DL is not expanding willy-nilly but instead are methodically addressing their strategic needs but doing so in a financially responsible way.
Every carrier has its "budget" for developmental flying.... I have said elsewhere - including in my "thesis" on the DL forum here - that DL has alot of developmental flying to fill this year with the new LHR and HND service... but those are strategically necessary and the fact that DL's overall finances are near the top of the industry make it possible to take risks that other carriers cannot.

Finally, I'm not sure what difference it really makes whether DL or AF is pushing for the new LHR flights because the implication for AA is the same - lots of new capacity is coming into key markets. Whether AF or DL wants to weaken AA or BA is immaterial and both are doing their part; pretending that DL may not want to fly 3 new LHR flights from AA strength markets still doesn't change the success that DL has had over the past several years in key AA domestic markets. The fact that the game is being escalated to int'l markets only says that combined Skyteam is interested in shrinking AA's list of unique market advantages and putting Skyteam into those markets. Continuation of that on a long-term basis doesn't bode well for AA.

 

[737823]

Would you be so kind as to explain why, in your opinion, the 75L biz seats are the "lowest quality seat in AA's fleet"?

In my view, they're vastly superior to the 763 biz seat because they're wider, they feature 110v power plugs and they feature built-in IFE. The 763 biz seat's only advantage are the DG pairs where everyone has direct aisle access.

I care about undisturbed direct aisle access, quick loading and disembarking and ease of storing my luggage which the 757 doesn't offer. The AC outlet, integrated entertainment, slightly wider seat does nothing for me. I flew the international 757 to SJU as described above bit can't imagine being trapped in that tube for 6-7 hours on a LHR flight.

Josh

 

[FWAAA]

They are, but I doubt WT has actually sat in either seat, much less slept in one, and is probably not informed enough to make a credible judgement call either way...

Exactly. The self-described Truth Teller posts once again on subjects of which he has no first hand knowledge. He makes things up, posts them as fact and becomes very defensive when proven not credible.

But does keep telling us that Delta has more seats to more places around the world than AA. As if that matters.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I don't have to sit in every AA seat to be able to read AMR's financial disclosures or analyze its performance data.

Apparently you do find that what I find is more than a little "uncomortable" (shall we say).

I would have no problem w/ AA's statements that it didn't need to be as large as other carriers if it did what it do better than its peers.

When they reach that point, let me know and I'll reconsider my positions.

 

[mreed911]

I agree. Up front is just as comfortable as the 767. Coach is miserable!

I just jumped on the fare sale AA had for connections through BOS-LHR to AMS and CDG. For $630 each way in J, it was a steal. Looking at SeatGuru, the 75L's have the widest of the seats and being a six hour flight I can't really argue.

The best part is having a A fare from MIA to BOS, then J on AA from BOS to LHR and J on AA codeshare (BA) from LHR to AMS. Made it easy to spend a half-week in AMS (and a day in MIA on the backend).

I did, however, ensure that for DFW-HNL this summer we're on the nonstop 762. No way I'd be on a domestic 75X.

-- Mike
http://gettingstatus.wordpress.com

 

[737823]

I just jumped on the fare sale AA had for connections through BOS-LHR to AMS and CDG. For $630 each way in J, it was a steal. Looking at SeatGuru, the 75L's have the widest of the seats and being a six hour flight I can't really argue.

The best part is having a A fare from MIA to BOS, then J on AA from BOS to LHR and J on AA codeshare (BA) from LHR to AMS. Made it easy to spend a half-week in AMS (and a day in MIA on the backend).

I did, however, ensure that for DFW-HNL this summer we're on the nonstop 762. No way I'd be on a domestic 75X.

-- Mike
http://gettingstatus.wordpress.com

They may have the widest seats buts its still an awful aircraft to fly on. I had my final AA LHR-BOS flight last week and the crew was very disappointed about the downgrade and they even went as far to say they think the base will be downsized further as a result. Not sure if there is any truth, but I will be flying BA. Now that I can earn full mileage acurral on BA and my book my own flights for work I will be taking BA in the future. I took part in the DL BOS-LHR $1500 BusinessElite fare sale and am taking my daughter next month.

Btw, you won't be flying on a 762 DFW-HNL, rather a 763. The only routes operated by 762 are JFK-LAX, JFK-SFO, and occasionally JFK-MIA.

Josh

 

[eolesen]

Now that I can earn full mileage acurral on BA and my book my own flights for work I will be taking BA in the future.

You won't be disappointed. Just did a ORD-LHR with them and while the food is for crap, seven hours of real sleep was no problem. Fortunately they have food in the lounge which isn't bad.

Mike, welcome to the group. I'm slightly ahead of you in the EQP quest, with 50K already and another 13K to be racked up in the next week...

And don't let the employees scare you off. Most of them are harmless.

 

[737823]

You won't be disappointed. Just did a ORD-LHR with them and while the food is for crap, seven hours of real sleep was no problem. Fortunately they have food in the lounge which isn't bad.

Were you on the new 777-300ER? That aircraft has the new FIRST, World Traveler Plus, and World Traveler. I'm in Club World on the 744 and return is 772. I didn't think the food was bad the other times I've flown BA, it's just different from AA and certainly smaller portion sizes. The Concorde Room at LHR is incredible, but this time I'll only get access to Galleries First.

Josh

 

[eolesen]

Standard -200ER. I saw little to no difference between Galleries First and Galleries Club other than the number of people using each of the lounges.

 

[Veritas]

Delta is now operating 2x 767-400ER with lie flat beds in J.

That did not last.

According to two threads on Flyer Talk, Delta has cut back to one 764 and one 752 (without lie flat seats).

Summer Equipment Changes including BOS-LHR

DL Metal Change - DL Reservations Proactive

 

[737823]

That did not last.

According to two threads on Flyer Talk, Delta has cut back to one 764 and one 752 (without lie flat seats).

Summer Equipment Changes including BOS-LHR

DL Metal Change - DL Reservations Proactive

Thanks for sharing. Since I'm traveling before the downgrade our reservations for May are unaffected with the same times, equipment, seats, etc. I suppose 1x764 and 1x752 isn't too bad considering forward bookings have improved for DL. I have little reason to fly DL on this route anyway since there are ample BA flights on 777s and 747s.

Josh