Todays Slideshow

[Hopeful]

Anyone want to predict what occurs in DFW between the company and TWU?

I say it will be a power point presentation that AA just can't afford the TWU's last proposal...

"we'd love to give you guys a raise, but the fuel is killing us."

Better yet..."we're going to spin off overhaul"

 

[TWU informer]

Who really gives a #### anymore? There is far more wrong with this company and our futures than the labor agreement!

 

[Birdman]

I asked a few days ago if the TWU had a presentation to make themselves and got no reply. Either it's just to secret to disclose the fact we do or they really have made no preparations to respond to the compAAny's presentation. Do they just rely on Bob to counter their figures with his own or have they hired experts to pour over the massive amounts of data to build a case in our favor? When you hire a lawyer to represent your interests aren't you in on every detail of the case he's building on you behalf? If he said "trust me and be patient", I would say YOUR FIRED!

 

[Hopeful]

I asked a few days ago if the TWU had a presentation to make themselves and got no reply. Either it's just to secret to disclose the fact we do or they really have made no preparations to respond to the compAAny's presentation. Do they just rely on Bob to counter their figures with his own or have they hired experts to pour over the massive amounts of data to build a case in our favor? When you hire a lawyer to represent your interests aren't you in on every detail of the case he's building on you behalf? If he said "trust me and be patient", I would say YOUR FIRED!

I think it's gonna be a doom and gloom show.

 

[DallasConehead]

Dog and pony show, bunch of monkeys F ng a football. Going out too lunch/dinner and drinking and hoteling and limo-ing on our dime. Meanwhile the rest of us go without. Pathetic...

 

[FWAAA]

I think it's gonna be a doom and gloom show.

Of course it's going to be a doom and gloom show. AMR stock is trading at "bankruptcy's just around the corner" levels. You guys might subscribe to the notion that AA's trying to paint things as negatively as possible because it's negotiating with its unions; the rest of the world can plainly see just how bleak AA's future is. The numbers are bad because, well, AA's numbers suck. Not because AA's hiding money or playing fast and loose with the books.

WT has posted thousands and thousands of words on the AA forum recently on that topic - sometimes in very annoying fashion. When you cast aside the annoying method he employs, he's right: the future of AA looks like doom and gloom unless labor and management reach mutually beneficial solutions to its cost problems.

In early 2003, AA's future looked bleak. At the time, however, all of AA's competitors were in the same boat. Now, with costs slashed in Ch 11, theose competitors are able to make money at fares that cause AA to lose money. Labor and management solve that conundrum - then AA's future looks a lot brighter. Fail to solve it and you aren't too far away from "full pay to the last day." That wouldn't be life-changing for the line mechanics, but you can be certain that it will seriously disrupt thousands of lives in Tulsa and Fort Worth.

 

[sixty/4]

Your wrong FWAAA that would be life-changing for the line too, because they will be bumped by
the old timers here in O/H. By the way are you in management?

 

[sixty/4]

If AA does go into BK who says that they want to shed O/H, I think AA might have learned something from their buddys at other airlines or they would have done it by now. They would loose all control of quality and turn time, and have their planes scattered all over the world.

 

[upsilon]

Your wrong FWAAA that would be life-changing for the line too, because they will be bumped by
the old timers here in O/H. By the way are you in management?

What make you so sure the contract right to bump would survive in a bankruptcy? And as a NYC resident (having once spent too much military time stationed in TX and OK, I'm damn sure the old timers down there wouldn't last six months here w/families or if trying to maintain two abodes at the current AA Mx scale. And that is the best you would get in BK.

 

[Hopeful]

What make you so sure the contract right to bump would survive in a bankruptcy? And as a NYC resident (having once spent too much military time stationed in TX and OK, I'm damn sure the old timers down there wouldn't last six months here w/families or if trying to maintain two abodes at the current AA Mx scale. And that is the best you would get in BK.

Good point.....contracts get abbrogated in BK....No bumping, no protection,,,no 12k moving expense.......
A more likely scenario is the base is spun off WITH AA people and a separate contract.

 

[odie01]

Im looking at the 12 page summary of the presentation from yesterday, that compares our March 10 proposal, and our current twu agreement, and yes it is what we expected.

To summerize, the closing statement reads:

Furthermore, the economic situation is extremely difficult and is deteriorating so it is imperative that we balance this challenge along with the employee contributions and the need to have a competitive, viable company.

In other words, go play in traffic, you ain't gettin sheet!

 

[TWU informer]

Maybe if the TWU would change the Dues Collection position of the organization,

a simple solution would be to allow more outsourcing of work in exchange for a retirement package and top pay in industry. There are many things we do very poorly at the overhaul base, and allowing those to be outsourced in exchange for membership financial gain would be very beneficial to both sides....at least the union membership and the company, but maybe not the dues collector.

Older workers could leave happy and the bottom of the list wouldn't be RIF'd by the outsourcing change. Might take another Junior Mechanic/ Apprentice program for the unlicensed OSM to get them licensed via experience but that type of program has been done before also, and they would be thrilled union members to get their A&P.

But as always dues payers are more important that a good paying profession.
Strength in Number My A.S.S.

 

[Bob Owens]

Im looking at the 12 page summary of the presentation from yesterday, that compares our March 10 proposal, and our current twu agreement, and yes it is what we expected.

To summerize, the closing statement reads:

Furthermore, the economic situation is extremely difficult and is deteriorating so it is imperative that we balance this challenge along with the employee contributions and the need to have a competitive, viable company.

In other words, go play in traffic, you ain't gettin sheet!

Keep in mind when you look at that thing that every carrier on the list has gone into BK at least once, most went twice and they did not include our peers at other carriers, the ones that did not go BK.

They want us to negotiate as if we are in BK but if they want that the shareholders are going to have to lose their equity first.

The offer we gave the company would put us at number 4 among the majors, at the bottom of the pack that did not go BK but ahead of those that did, pretty much the same position that every other employee at AA has been in since 2003. We are the only ones who sunk to near the bottom of the BK crowd.

Interesting thing I recently found out, UAL, even through two BKs managed to keep their medical, we pay around $3000, not only more than any other unionized group at AA but more than twice BK UAL!!!

As far as fuel, the airlines have raised fares seven times this year, more than covering the increase in fuel, especially after the hedges are thrown in.

 

[700UW]

UA did not file Bankruptcy twice, that would be US Airways.

 

[AV1]

Maybe if the TWU would change the Dues Collection position of the organization,

a simple solution would be to allow more outsourcing of work in exchange for a retirement package and top pay in industry. There are many things we do very poorly at the overhaul base, and allowing those to be outsourced in exchange for membership financial gain would be very beneficial to both sides....at least the union membership and the company, but maybe not the dues collector.

Older workers could leave happy and the bottom of the list wouldn't be RIF'd by the outsourcing change. Might take another Junior Mechanic/ Apprentice program for the unlicensed OSM to get them licensed via experience but that type of program has been done before also, and they would be thrilled union members to get their A&P.

But as always dues payers are more important that a good paying profession.
Strength in Number My A.S.S.

Good Post. I have to absolutely have to drag myself into work anymore. Some of the BS that goes on makes most want to stay away. Lets see, we have the guys that cannot be happy no matter what the situation. If their was an agreement for $50 an hour for everybody, they would complain their not getting $55, everyday its something else. If rational thinking would ever happen, maybe, just maybe something could happen. Until then, we'll just keep doing the same thing over and over, isn't there a saying about that? After 3 years of negotiation and many years of concessions, I am just tired I chose this profession. Just saying!