Today's Alpa Meeting With Lakefield

[USA320Pilot]

Willyloman:

Willylowman said: “The transformation plan is just what Siegal twice told employees earlier on: the mainline will be reduced to approximately 160-162 A/C, and MDA will be increased to more RJs than God can count.â€

USA320pilot said: “That’s not an accurate statement and Lakefield said in pen session†being smaller will not help us.†Moreover, he specifically discussed that he wants to grow, presumably to average down unit costs.

Separately, I thought yesterday’s meeting was fascinating, it was good to speak with Lakefield, and it was interesting watching the dynamics I play.

Jack Stephen made a good comment when he told the public, “The MEC and management spent the morning in a lengthy Q&A session that focused on the pace and progress of Transformation Plan negotiations. After a candid discussion on both parties’ expectations, the Negotiating Committee and Company negotiators expect to accelerate their negotiating schedule.â€

I believe this week’s events culminated by yesterday’s meeting was a "watershed" event for this company.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[cavalier]

Because that's for the market to decide, not some judge. I can not believe that anyone in his right mind would think that shutting down US would be a "good thing". In addition to the thousands of lost jobs, the ripple effects would have such a negative impact in so many places it's unfathomable to think even for a second that shutting US down would be good idea. US may go under on its own. Time will tell. But to just say shut it down for the good of the industry is myopic.

[post="167965"][/post]​

Then I am in good company with one John Kerry who said as much. Therefore he too must be myopic in that we agree with each other. Now if this one little crippled airline out of the entire USA airline industry dissapears, yes it would be painful for the U empoyees and businesses that depend on U, but looking at the BIG picture and according to many experts, this is what needs to happen to stablize the airline industry. So therefore the more outweight the less, less being U and thoese affected. So please explain why this is flawed logic minus the biased mind set.

 

[willyloman]

Yes, 320, Lakefield does want to grow: increase MDA, reduce mainline.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Cav:

A shutdown of US Airways and the closure of maintenance, training, operations, reservations and other facilities would have a devastating effect on the local economies of both Pittsburgh and Charlotte. Tax revenue would be under pressure, small businesses would cease to exist that depend upon airport associated revenue, and the overall local economics would suffer badly.

For example school enrollment would drop, people would move from the community seeking employment, and property taxes would rise. Many companies would not want to have their corporate offices in these locations, which could cause more collateral damage to those reasons.

Yes, the collateral damage would be significant for Western Pennsylvania and North Carolina if the business enterprise fails.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[mweiss]

Then I am in good company with one John Kerry who said as much.

[post="168002"][/post]​

Not really. He said that US Airways shouldn't be propped up, not that it should be shut down.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Willylowman:

Willylowman said: ‘Yes, 320, Lakefield does want to grow: increase MDA, reduce mainline.â€

USA320Pilot asks: How do you know that? The lat time I attended a meeting with Bruce Lakefield he was going to meet with Airbus’ senior vice president of sales regarding more aircraft delivery’s, provided US Airways had a competitive cost structure, which should permit the company to have access to the capital markets.

In fact, did you see that America West, who has become a LCC/hybrid, ordered 17 A320 family aircraft. If America West can do it, I believe US Airways can too. It’s interesting that management is using the America West employee cost structure as a model, isn’t it. They grow and you suggest US Airways will get smaller. Hummm….something to think about….

By the way, would you go to the DOT's website and look up US Airways dockets and tell me what they say about US Airways new route authority applications to European, Caribbean, Latin American, and South American service intnetions?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[willyloman]

USA320 Did Lakefield SPECIFICALLY say he was going to increase mainline?I don't care if America West ordered the Airbus. Don't be so bloody naive; we know the Airbus delivery for mainline is just a carrot.

USairways' new route authority will be handled by the 160-162 mainline aircraft after all the non-profitable routes are transferred to MDA.How long this will take? Watch for RJ deliveries, a reduction of mainline routes, and an increase of codeshare for mainline.

As each new RJ is delivered that will mean a loss of a mainline job.

 

[cavalier]

Cav:

A shutdown of US Airways and the closure of maintenance, training, operations, reservations and other facilities would have a devastating effect on the local economies of both Pittsburgh and Charlotte. Tax revenue would be under pressure, small businesses would cease to exist that depend upon airport associated revenue, and the overall local economics would suffer badly.

For example school enrollment would drop, people would move from the community seeking employment, and property taxes would rise. Many companies would not want to have their corporate offices in these locations, which could cause more collateral damage to those reasons.

Yes, the collateral damage would be significant for Western Pennsylvania and North Carolina if the business enterprise fails.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="168006"][/post]​

Well my good caption you sir are talking to a person who lived thru the steel mills closings and people like you said the exact same thing, but look at us now. MANY new and very expensive homes, tons of more traffic, the city extended 20 miles out to where I live which used to be farmland. All that has happened was people moved on and things continued forward. Someone who has not been back in twenty years is absolutely astounded at what has happened, which was exactly opposite of your doom and gloom scenario. There is a ton of money around here and a ton of business men wanting to become richer and do so with all kinds of ventures. Don't spew your BS on me because it just isn't sticking captain. This area will not only be fine WITHOUT U COMPLETELY but will prosper, as it always has. MARK MY WORDS and Date Em! Remember, U is NOT the Alfa and Omega

 

[mweiss]

USairways' new route authority will be handled by the 160-162 mainline aircraft after all the non-profitable routes are transferred to MDA.

[post="168016"][/post]​

Switching all unprofitable routes to RJs is like eating beluga caviar because steak is too expensive. It only serves to make the problem worse.

 

[Rico]

Just curious...

There sure does seem to be a lot of smart people on here that are quick to downplay and dispute any chance for the transformation plan to work, but...

I have yet to see what you propose instead.

Please correct me if I am wrong but the general outline of what you "seem" to want to have happen is...

Maintain or increase current wage levels
Maintain or decrease current productivity levels
Keep PIT as a full sized Hub
Do not buy any regional jets whatsoever
Pull financing out of the clear blue and grow mainline, esp widebodies
Management stop asking for any further concessions, no matter what
Get rid of MidAtlantic, rid of "Mainline Express", rid of US Airways Express


Is that about it, did I leave anything out...? THAT is your idea to make US Airways successful, to have us repay our debts, and to have a future...?

Becuase the only other thing I have heard suggested from the naysayers is to "Shut this place down...!!!"

Ummm, right :blink:

Look, if all you armchair genius types have a better plan than the company's, feel free to toss it out. It is sooo easy for you to just sit there and badmouth everything. Simply whining about your situation is childish. Worse yet, wishing that the job (I and tens of thousands rely upon to make make a living) to "shut down" is moronic. :angry:

 

[robbedagain]

i think the company could grow because with all the emb-170s coming in (2 a week) and the mainline jets being pulled out of pit, what is to stop them from growing and all oof this can be done WITHOUT the employees taking another paycut.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Switching all unprofitable routes to RJs is like eating beluga caviar because steak is too expensive. It only serves to make the problem worse.

[post="168041"][/post]​

mweiss,

Wow, that was quick, did you get the ax already or are you getting paid to post now?

JMHO,
B) UT

 

[mweiss]

UT, if you read more closely, you'll note that I will be leaving at the end of the week. As in the day after tomorrow. Saturday, August 14, 2004.

Sheesh.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Rico,

Ok, I'll take a stab at this....

"Maintain or increase current wage levels"
While I'd be the first to say a raise would be nice, it's not likely to happen and certainly not expected. However, for us pilots the wages are not much above the current "yardstick", and if you throw WN into the equation they're pretty competitive.

"Maintain or decrease current productivity levels"
I don't want to be less productive, but I don't want to be blamed for being unproductive when the source of the problem is the business model, not me. Productivity has two components - one of which is output or ASM's in our case. If I went to WN, AWA, or JB and took my contract with me I would instantly be more productive. Why? Because the business model is much more efficient.

"Keep PIT as a full sized Hub"
I personally don't have the data to know whether PIT should be retained as a hub or not. However, since we're basically concentrated in the Northeast with only "spokes" outside this region, I do wonder what the effect will be of having CLT as our only connecting hub as envisioned in the Transformation Plan. Will our passengers from New England going to/from the upper midwest still choose us if they have to connect thru CLT instead of PIT or PHL, or will they go to CAL thru EWR/CLE, NWA thru DTW, or even UAL or AMR thru ORD?

"Do not buy any regional jets whatsoever"
Never said that and never will. There is a place for "RJ's", whether the BAC-111 or F-28 in their day or the CRJ-700 or Emb-170 today. The key is to use them properly, not just get lots because you can pay the employees that work them less. Even with the lower labor costs, they are still more expensive per ASM than larger planes.

"Pull financing out of the clear blue and grow mainline, esp widebodies"
As pointed out in a post above, growing mainline doesn't necessarily mean adding airplanes. We can produce more ASM's by flying the planes we have more per day and flying them further per flight, and isn't increasing the number of ASM's produced effectively growth? As far as financing new mainline aircraft, that was (to me) one of Siegel's blunders - tying up all the financing that he could beg, borrow, or steal on up to 400 RJ's while parking mainline aircraft at the same time. Some of that financing could have been used to keep some of those parked aircraft flying or to get more mainline aircraft.

"Management stop asking for any further concessions, no matter what"
I'll admit, it would be nice to see management do something with the concessions they've already been given before they ask for more. Until the business model is made more efficient, concessions are merely a delaying tactic. More concessions may slow the approach of the day or reckoning for this airline, but won't stop that approach. One quick example - our "Premier" hub in PHL. Among all the ways it is inefficient is the fact that it has the 5th highest average taxi time in the country behing ORD, EWR, LGA, and JFK (the afternoon international rush brings JFK's average slightly above PHL's). PHL's average taxi-out time is 10 minutes higher than CLT's (25.5 minutes vs 15.5 minutes). Remember that time spent in taxi costs money - crew pay, fuel burn - but has ZERO productivity since no ASM's are produced. Let's see - 10 minutes average per flight X number of flights per day X 356 days a year = big bucks in cost and lost productivity.

"Get rid of MidAtlantic, rid of "Mainline Express", rid of US Airways Express"
Just like the RJ's, the Express operation has a place. Unless, of course, you're talking about "getting rid" of it because we bring it all in-house. I've said before that I'd prefer all flying be done by one airline with one seniority list. There could be a differentiation made for Express flying in the contract - we did it for MetroJet. My second choice would be to have the W/O'ed carriers do all the express flying and eliminate the affiliates - why give them a profit (and watch them grow) to fly our passengers when we're losing money and contemplating more concessions?

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

Willyowman:

Willylowman said: "USairways' new route authority will be handled by the 160-162 mainline aircraft after all the non-profitable routes are transferred to MDA.How long this will take? Watch for RJ deliveries, a reduction of mainline routes, and an increase of codeshare for mainline."

USA320Pilot asks: How do you know this? That's not the business plan or what I heard yesterday regarding the fleet plan, but if the Company re-enters bankruptcy third parties can change the equation. If the company goes into bankruptcy, then all bets are off. Personally, except for adding widebody's and EMB-170s through EMB-195s, I do not want to buy additional aircraft except to replacement aircraft the Boeing fleet. Personally, I would like to see and all Airbus and EMB-170/195 fleet, longer-term. Instead I would like to see more Mainline and Express ASM's so the company can average down unit costs to improve profitability and limit employee concessions.

If we fly the current fleet more block hours per day, the company would lower its costs and this would be the single most important opportunity for success.

Your numbers are wrong, even if the company enters bankruptcy and I saw the plan. Did you?

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot