TIME FOR THE EAST TO HAVE A REALITY CHECK

[AWA320]

People need to understand:

The reaction of the AWA pilots was positive only out of RELIEF, not because of any “gainsâ€￾
Most AWA pilots lost relative seniority.
The ONLY protected flying is for East pilots. No west flying is protected.
Their union mislead them to believe their proposal was attainable, against the advice of many. Their union continues to mislead them to believe that the award can be undone. Doing so potentially hold their pilots hostage from a sizeable raise.


Also:



PILOT
5/1/2005

Dave Odell
Most junior active pilot @ AWA. On reserve on the B737.

5/1/2007
Still the most junior reserve pilot on the B737.

5/1/2005
Dean Colello
Furloughed. Little to no prospect of recall.

5/1/2007
Recalled with at least 300 pilots junior to him. Flies the B767 to Europe.

5/1/2005
Randy McNerlin
#1 pilot at AWA. Nobody senior to him can come to PHX.

5/1/2007
#518 pilot at US Airways. No protection against pilots senior to him coming to PHX.

Like many here we are sick and tired of your constant crying like you got hurt. Accept what we have and move on.

 

[EastUS]

People need to understand:

"The reaction of the AWA pilots was positive only out of RELIEF, not because of any “gainsâ€￾"

Ummm hmmm.."RELIEF" from what?..an actual "seniority" list award, based upon some intelligent thought, that both groups reasonably expected?
As you're so fond of "shouting" "Get over it"...Since the west remains intractable, we'll all have to live with the susequent fallout, in whatever forms it manifests itself, up to and including losing everything.

Wouldn't some slight reconsideration of fences seem even a tiny bit reasonable?

 

[AWA320]

as quoted by EASTUS
The reaction of the AWA pilots was positive only out of RELIEF, not because of any “gainsâ€￾"

Ummm hmmm.."RELIEF" from what?..an actual "seniority" list award, based upon some intelligent thought, that both groups reasonably expected?
As you're so fond of "shouting" "Get over it"...Since the west remains intractable, we'll all have to live with the susequent fallout, in whatever forms it manifests itself, up to and including losing everything.

That's totally up to you all and the pilots on the west side of town will do what we have to do. Prepare yourself for the injunctions against your pilot group for more unreasonable behavior...

Wouldn't some slight reconsideration of fences seem even a tiny bit reasonable?

Not at all!! If the arbitrator had thought fences were necessary he would have put them there. He didn't for a reason...

 

[safety stud]

as quoted by EASTUS
The reaction of the AWA pilots was positive only out of RELIEF, not because of any “gainsâ€￾"

Ummm hmmm.."RELIEF" from what?..an actual "seniority" list award, based upon some intelligent thought, that both groups reasonably expected?
As you're so fond of "shouting" "Get over it"...Since the west remains intractable, we'll all have to live with the susequent fallout, in whatever forms it manifests itself, up to and including losing everything.

That's totally up to you all and the pilots on the west side of town will do what we have to do. Prepare yourself for the injunctions against your pilot group for more unreasonable behavior...

Wouldn't some slight reconsideration of fences seem even a tiny bit reasonable?

Not at all!! If the arbitrator had thought fences were necessary he would have put them there. He didn't for a reason...

So you on the west...stand firm, you on the east... fight, those in the middle... watch. Where does that really get us. Hmm... You want a reality check...Look within... What is the answer... Should the east cower under the bed you from the west have so eliquently said?... Should the west stand firm and persue injuctions which only manifests hostility within the union...There is no great answer to either side of this coin.

 

[AWA320]

So you on the west...stand firm, you on the east... fight, those in the middle... watch. Where does that really get us. Hmm... You want a reality check...Look within... What is the answer... Should the east cower under the bed you from the west have so eliquently said?... Should the west stand firm and persue injuctions which only manifests hostility within the union...There is no great answer to either side of this coin.

SafetyStud if it had gone DOH you would have been telling us to suck the hind tit shut up and like it PERIOD!!

There is an answer to this SS and it was given by the arbitrator!! It's final it's binding and it's over. We accept what we have and move on. All this arguing and making threats to destroy the company is pointless. ALPA has no choice but to defend this award and that's what they will do. No court in the land will ever overturn this award and our pilots will simply come unglued and the mere thought of any AFTER DECISION DEALS!!! It's over and done with.

You people are just going to have to suck it up and move on.

 

[safety stud]

SafetyStud if it had gone DOH you would have been telling us to suck the hind tit shut up and like it PERIOD!!

There is an answer to this SS and it was given by the arbitrator!! It's final it's binding and it's over. We accept what we have and move on. All this arguing and making threats to destroy the company is pointless. ALPA has no choice but to defend this award and that's what they will do. No court in the land will ever overturn this award and our pilots will simply come unglued and the mere thought of any AFTER DECISION DEALS!!! It's over and done with.

You people are just going to have to suck it up and move on.

You are totally missing what I said. There is NO...one side to any coin. There is always cause/effect... Thats nature. I am not telling anyone to shut up, neither am I saying one side is right and the other wrong. Being placed in the middle, is the rest of the airline which has to watch on to see what happens.

In the mean time, I will continue to monitor the status of what transpiers and see how it will effect the mass. Being open-minded means not shutting the door in peoples faces...

Just my opinion...

 

[AWA320]

You are totally missing what I said. There is NO...one side to any coin. There is always cause/effect... Thats nature. I am not telling anyone to shut up, neither am I saying one side is right and the other wrong. Being placed in the middle, is the rest of the airline which has to watch on to see what happens.

In the mean time, I will continue to monitor the status of what transpiers and see how it will effect the mass. Being open-minded means not shutting the door in peoples faces...

Just my opinion...

Ok maybe I did misunderstand what you were attempting to get across and I for one am sorry for the other groups having to watch. SS, for over two years the mentailty over there has been completely closed minded. It was all or nothing for them. We offered deals but got shown the door. George even told them NO DOH but still they came with the same position. Now this group will not deal and we don't have to. Now if they choose to act stupid and try to ruin the company the company will respond. There is only one thing to do now and thats get paid.

 

[LCC_#1]

Moderators

ALL this has been discussed ENOUGH!!! Any thread started NOW is just flame throwing and should be locked.

If you choose to leave it open, I can only hope from here on out that people ignore this thread as this BS has been discussed, argued, and debated ENOUGH!!

The person starting this thread is constantly telling people to get over it and and move on, but continues to bring the same inflammatory topic up!!

Again, ENOUGH!!

 

[javaboy]

here's reality.

at retirement (assuming age 60)

36 years on property....

and as an F/O

thats whats wrong with the list,

or more correctly those just senior (on new combined list)
in 15 years (again assuming age 60) at my retirement, will still have 1 year LESS on the property than i do today.

h34r:
:down:

 

[EastUS]

"Now this group will not deal and we don't have to.

Fair enough = cooperative, and reasonable spirit shown. We can all deal with the future consequences of this mess.

"Now if they choose to act stupid and try to ruin the company the company will respond."

Firstly; you have no possible idea of what the company will do in response to anything...period. There isn't any "good guy/"bad guy" index in any 'headquarters that's used in the decision making process...it's just all about generating income. Management's hardly your big brother that'll step in to take your side just because you think such is right. If there are economic efficiencies to be had in playing the east off against the west they'll likely take them. If there's money to be made placing flying at one side or the other..regardless of what you think is a "done deal".."get over it"/etc..they will do just that. If contracts and agreements get in their way..they'll litigate 'till hell opens it's first, or second ski resort. If a management team needs to choose between alienating any segment of it's work force: Do they decide to minimize damage from doing so by enraging the majority?..or the minority? Consider that when crowing about things out west...you've considerably less numbers as well as economic impact. There's no shortage of presumptuous wanna-be lawyers posting drivel on these boards which overlooks the most fundamental issue = Time. How long do YOU want to spend in uncertainty, and stomache-churning anger? The east has worked with rather draconian conditions and lousy pay for a very long time.

It's my feeling that throwing some tiny carrot by way of the company's first joint contract proposal does NOTHING to soften our stance against the seniority abortion.

I doubt that's anyone's truly intent upon ruining the company..and it certainly isn't in anyone's best interests to do so. However; one cannot wish away...nor litigate away, the effects of the most experienced workers being totally demoralized.

We're just utterly fed up with being run over.

That's "act stupid---ly" fyi.

 

[AWA320]

Moderators

ALL this has been discussed ENOUGH!!! Any thread started NOW is just flame throwing and should be locked.

If you choose to leave it open, I can only hope from here on out that people ignore this thread as this BS has been discussed, argued, and debated ENOUGH!!

The person starting this thread is constantly telling people to get over it and and move on, but continues to bring the same inflammatory topic up!!

Again, ENOUGH!!

OK agreed! Maybe you should tell your people to stop making empty threats as well, whatcha think????

 

[EastUS]

"OK agreed! Maybe you should tell your people to stop making empty threats as well, whatcha think????"

Not to fret AWA320...we all know that your threats carry no weight. Threatening, from either "side" isn't the best answer to any of this mess anyway. It does, very sadly, appear that there's light years of distance between the east/west at present that are unlkely to be reasonably resolved. The forum threads here at least serve as venting opportunities, and some degree of a window into the "other side's" perceptions. If we could actually get together over the differences..sigh..ain't gonna' happen it seems.

 

[2BorNot2B]

Moderators

ALL this has been discussed ENOUGH!!! Any thread started NOW is just flame throwing and should be locked.

If you choose to leave it open, I can only hope from here on out that people ignore this thread as this BS has been discussed, argued, and debated ENOUGH!!

The person starting this thread is constantly telling people to get over it and and move on, but continues to bring the same inflammatory topic up!!

Again, ENOUGH!!

I agree 100%!, for whatever that is worth!

(Retired Pilot)

 

[AAA#6]

The East people fail to realize that this company is America West Airlines, it's just called USAirways. This ain't the old Crystal City company you all knew. Your are America West employees for all intensive purposes.

USAirways has never been larger than number 6 in the majors, yet you have always had the arrogance like you were in the top 4. Like your parity pay issue way back when with Wolf. You claim you offer international routes, but let's be realistic....9 A330 and 10 767's....wow that's a big intl fleet! It's time you recognize you are an America West employee and this company will do things the America West way (on the cheap).

The AWA pilots owe the East pilots nothing. We don't need to enter into any agreements. That would be completely stupid on our part. Why should we put restrictions on ourselves to satisfy East pilots. If we do you would probably try to get it changed to screw us over in someway. We just can't trust you. We played fair and by the rules. We tried to work with you all on good faith terms. You attempted to throw us under the bus. And now your renegging on your agreement to follow the outcome of the arbitration.

A nice thing about the furloughs being stapled is this.
They most likely won't take the recall, which means new hires come on board. With attrition a new breed of FO's will come in with a new attitude. I like to think of it as anti-virus.

 

[Retired1]

AAA#6

Before you use that anti-virus on a East pilot try giving it a whirl on that Toys R Us computer system in place now.