*3rd to last paragraph*
US Airways chief balks at making guarantees :angry: :censored:
I just don't know why dave and his little buddies continue to run this airline like this!
This Guy Makes Me Sick...
- Thread starter Jon153
- Start date
US Airways chief balks at making guarantees :angry: :censored:
I just don't know why dave and his little buddies continue to run this airline like this!
Bob, people like you and Dave, have no ethics, morals or scruples if you agree on how he is running this company.
Dave will end up like Wolf, Ichan, Lorenzo, Ken Lay and Chainsaw Al Dunlop.
The only thing keeing this airline going and keeping it in the top tier of the DOT rankings is the employees. It is time for Dave to treat us as assests and not liabilities.
This man and his band of thieves are nothing but common liars, you were not at the roadshow meetings where he stressed I am labor friendly and this restructuring will be labor friendly. To this date this company has done 180 degrees opposite of what he preached.
Holding a gun to employees head while in bankruptcy court is not labor friendy, violating every union's contract is not labor friendly, Dave made more in one second then I have made in 15 years, it takes a lot of balls to ask us to give up pay, benefits and thousands of jobs when A Gordon Gecko type CEO walks in the door and gets $750,000 signing bonus, $750,000 a year in salary, 750,000 stock options, $16,000 moving expenses and various other perks and benefits while employees lives are ruined because their wages and benefits can no qualify them for food stamps and welfare at all to line his coffers.
Dave and his band of thieves will never ever learn, the employee morale is at its lowest I have ever seen and they don't do anything to correct it, they make it worse day by day. All he is interested in is making a buck for himself to complete his house in SXM(St Marteen) so he can lay on the beach and say "It is good to be the king", well history has a funny way with dealing with people like him, just look up Marie Antionette and others like her.
We might take our lumps in the short term, but as many of us have told supervisors, managers, directors, VPs and such "I was here before you came and I will be here long after you are gone!"
Viva la revolution!
Dave will end up like Wolf, Ichan, Lorenzo, Ken Lay and Chainsaw Al Dunlop.
The only thing keeing this airline going and keeping it in the top tier of the DOT rankings is the employees. It is time for Dave to treat us as assests and not liabilities.
This man and his band of thieves are nothing but common liars, you were not at the roadshow meetings where he stressed I am labor friendly and this restructuring will be labor friendly. To this date this company has done 180 degrees opposite of what he preached.
Holding a gun to employees head while in bankruptcy court is not labor friendy, violating every union's contract is not labor friendly, Dave made more in one second then I have made in 15 years, it takes a lot of balls to ask us to give up pay, benefits and thousands of jobs when A Gordon Gecko type CEO walks in the door and gets $750,000 signing bonus, $750,000 a year in salary, 750,000 stock options, $16,000 moving expenses and various other perks and benefits while employees lives are ruined because their wages and benefits can no qualify them for food stamps and welfare at all to line his coffers.
Dave and his band of thieves will never ever learn, the employee morale is at its lowest I have ever seen and they don't do anything to correct it, they make it worse day by day. All he is interested in is making a buck for himself to complete his house in SXM(St Marteen) so he can lay on the beach and say "It is good to be the king", well history has a funny way with dealing with people like him, just look up Marie Antionette and others like her.
We might take our lumps in the short term, but as many of us have told supervisors, managers, directors, VPs and such "I was here before you came and I will be here long after you are gone!"
Viva la revolution!
USAirBoyA330
Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2002
- Messages
- 724
- Reaction score
- 0
PineyBob:
While usually neutral or sympathetic to your other posts...this one just makes me sick. Are you for real? Yes, cuts had to be made and tough decisions followed through on but it's not so much about what was done but HOW it was done. Siegel has been nothing but condescending, ruthless and underhanded. He lies straight to our face and doesn't blink. He would take away a kids ice cream cone with a smile on his face. How do we know this?....because of his actions and his snide words.
I can't believe I am saying this but I would give anything just to have Gangwal back. At least his word was good and he told you like it was while trying to understand the front-line employees situations. Does that mean he was a great President/CEO?...NO. But there is a HUGE amount to be said for people skills and keeping employees happy even if it costs a few cents. Those few cents spent on employee moral can give you a monetary return of millions.
But you know this so why waist my breath just as you know how dirty this management is. So why did you waist your breath defending them?
While usually neutral or sympathetic to your other posts...this one just makes me sick. Are you for real? Yes, cuts had to be made and tough decisions followed through on but it's not so much about what was done but HOW it was done. Siegel has been nothing but condescending, ruthless and underhanded. He lies straight to our face and doesn't blink. He would take away a kids ice cream cone with a smile on his face. How do we know this?....because of his actions and his snide words.
I can't believe I am saying this but I would give anything just to have Gangwal back. At least his word was good and he told you like it was while trying to understand the front-line employees situations. Does that mean he was a great President/CEO?...NO. But there is a HUGE amount to be said for people skills and keeping employees happy even if it costs a few cents. Those few cents spent on employee moral can give you a monetary return of millions.
But you know this so why waist my breath just as you know how dirty this management is. So why did you waist your breath defending them?
The question should be: Is this what the company agreed to with TWO concessions? The company agreed to whatever the rate is saying that's what will work for them. So now what, do we change the game mid stream, throw out the contracts and the unions because all of a sudden management had an epiphany. Do we rewrite the contacts with machination being the main theme? Do we get congress to pass a bill so people working at poverty wages can collect welfare and food stamps so upper management can continue to live as kings. Do we return to the days of tyranny where few have it all and most struggle to survive. Dave considers unions and their members socialist. I call him out of touch because he believes he is and deserves to be a true elitist when in reality he is no different than another one of us who works under his charge. We are all born and die and will all be judged by our deeds while alive. I am glad I am not him.Hope777 said:
Oliver Twist
Advanced
I find myself in the uncomfortable position of not believing anything from the top, unless its in writing and it's already in my check. Thats a sad state isn't it.
On the positive side, I do feel we will be around for the long haul. As I said previously, there are too many mainline planes to go in a circle between the big 6 airports. They gotta go somewhere and I look for a CVG style hub in PIT, or mid america or both. I see new destinations and additions to our existing ones. What they will be I don't know. But I think they are coming.
Rumor? Anyone know why CHS is having so many openings? Both full and part time? No one there is talking.
On the positive side, I do feel we will be around for the long haul. As I said previously, there are too many mainline planes to go in a circle between the big 6 airports. They gotta go somewhere and I look for a CVG style hub in PIT, or mid america or both. I see new destinations and additions to our existing ones. What they will be I don't know. But I think they are coming.
Rumor? Anyone know why CHS is having so many openings? Both full and part time? No one there is talking.
News Flash People,
No one is guaranteed a job here or anywhere else. If Dave would not agree to a no furlough clause in any contract after concessions, nor would he guarantee any work force size (except for what it takes to operate 279 mainline aircraft), why should he guarantee anything to public in PIT? Lets take the following example:
This time we are dealing with CLT. CLT wants a ten year commitment to 9,000 employees to build a new extension to a concourse, and make some other improvements. Dave says yes. Then, something unforseen happens, and the CLT hub becomes unprofitable and out of place in the system in four years. Are you telling me that Dave should pasy through the nose for six years? Look at what UAL did in IND. They made a deal with the devil to get that maintenance center in IND, and now they have to pay the penaly for leaving (although the may have gotten out of it through BK, I am not sure). Now you are a stockholder, and watched this happen. You are Dave's real boss. What are you going to do? Get ticked off at your money being p!ssed down the drain, that's what.
As long as you work for someone else, you are always an employee at will, no matter what something may say on paper. As PineyBob says, lawyers are paid to break the very contracts they write.
No one is guaranteed a job here or anywhere else. If Dave would not agree to a no furlough clause in any contract after concessions, nor would he guarantee any work force size (except for what it takes to operate 279 mainline aircraft), why should he guarantee anything to public in PIT? Lets take the following example:
This time we are dealing with CLT. CLT wants a ten year commitment to 9,000 employees to build a new extension to a concourse, and make some other improvements. Dave says yes. Then, something unforseen happens, and the CLT hub becomes unprofitable and out of place in the system in four years. Are you telling me that Dave should pasy through the nose for six years? Look at what UAL did in IND. They made a deal with the devil to get that maintenance center in IND, and now they have to pay the penaly for leaving (although the may have gotten out of it through BK, I am not sure). Now you are a stockholder, and watched this happen. You are Dave's real boss. What are you going to do? Get ticked off at your money being p!ssed down the drain, that's what.
As long as you work for someone else, you are always an employee at will, no matter what something may say on paper. As PineyBob says, lawyers are paid to break the very contracts they write.
PITbull
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 7,784
- Reaction score
- 456
First of all, the e-mails were exchanged between Dave and the local PIT AFA President and then given to the Local labor coalition. Right or wrong they were sent to them on a "need- to- know- basis". Many e-mails have been exchanged in the past and many have never been shared and never will.
Secondly and most important, VP Chaimes made statements in the paper that the PIT President was asking for Mid-Atlantic wages to be the same as "main-line" and that was basically the "jist" of Dave's conversation with her at the airport and in the e-mails.
I will be kind, and say THAT IS A LIE.
The AFA PIT President was asking for a committement in writing that any negotiations had to include a minimum of MAIN LINE FLIGHTS OUT OF PITTSBURGH. Period.
Why, you ask? When a private corporation is for profit they have the autonomy to do anything they like with regard to their business plan and what is or is not most cost effective in that plan. In U case, they can stay in PIT, leave, scale it down to a few flights OR bring Mid-Atlantic in ALL DAY LONG.
but, WHEN THEY HAVE THEIR HANDS OUT FOR ANY PA TAX PAYER DOLLARS TO HELP THEM MAKE THAT DECISION TO STAY OR GO, then it has to be for "fair " exchange, and that means compromise. If they are not willing to do this, and are only willing to dictate to the state or demand the sacrifieces they need from the tax payers to stay, then the state can not give them the dollars. And then it will be up to USAirways to leave, stay, take more flight out etc.
We here in PA will not take ALL the risks with U's business plan as we did in the EARLY 90's and trusted USAirways committment with regard to PIT. After all, they went into BK and got out of the leases. If the tax payers are going to take some risk with U, then it has to be for fair exchange, and fair risk by both parties.
Folks, it all about jobs, good paying jobs. Its about mainline jobs. Personally, I will follow U anywhere they decide to go. They are free to make any business decision they choose and want. Hell, we are out of BK right?
BUT, when they ask for tax dollars for improvements to the facility and their business plan AND EXPECT PITTSBURGH TO BASICALLY PAY FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION OF MID ATLANTIC AND HELP WITH THOSE COSTS ONLY,
Then I will hold my State and local representatives accountable for using any tax dollars that will cost MAINLINE JOBS! Hope everyone is CLEAR on the PIT Presidents position.
AND SHE DID NOT SUPPLY THIS TO THE MEDIA! Was not for public consumption.
Secondly and most important, VP Chaimes made statements in the paper that the PIT President was asking for Mid-Atlantic wages to be the same as "main-line" and that was basically the "jist" of Dave's conversation with her at the airport and in the e-mails.
I will be kind, and say THAT IS A LIE.
The AFA PIT President was asking for a committement in writing that any negotiations had to include a minimum of MAIN LINE FLIGHTS OUT OF PITTSBURGH. Period.
Why, you ask? When a private corporation is for profit they have the autonomy to do anything they like with regard to their business plan and what is or is not most cost effective in that plan. In U case, they can stay in PIT, leave, scale it down to a few flights OR bring Mid-Atlantic in ALL DAY LONG.
but, WHEN THEY HAVE THEIR HANDS OUT FOR ANY PA TAX PAYER DOLLARS TO HELP THEM MAKE THAT DECISION TO STAY OR GO, then it has to be for "fair " exchange, and that means compromise. If they are not willing to do this, and are only willing to dictate to the state or demand the sacrifieces they need from the tax payers to stay, then the state can not give them the dollars. And then it will be up to USAirways to leave, stay, take more flight out etc.
We here in PA will not take ALL the risks with U's business plan as we did in the EARLY 90's and trusted USAirways committment with regard to PIT. After all, they went into BK and got out of the leases. If the tax payers are going to take some risk with U, then it has to be for fair exchange, and fair risk by both parties.
Folks, it all about jobs, good paying jobs. Its about mainline jobs. Personally, I will follow U anywhere they decide to go. They are free to make any business decision they choose and want. Hell, we are out of BK right?
BUT, when they ask for tax dollars for improvements to the facility and their business plan AND EXPECT PITTSBURGH TO BASICALLY PAY FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION OF MID ATLANTIC AND HELP WITH THOSE COSTS ONLY,
Then I will hold my State and local representatives accountable for using any tax dollars that will cost MAINLINE JOBS! Hope everyone is CLEAR on the PIT Presidents position.
AND SHE DID NOT SUPPLY THIS TO THE MEDIA! Was not for public consumption.
Bottom line, yes as Piney said the industry is in the "Outhouse", but that does'nt give the powers to be at "Airways" or at any of the "Group", the excuse to be a bunch of "crank yankers" with regards to the workers on the front lines. And on the subject of wages..the poor SOB's at the W/O's really get "yanked" , working and flying on equipment that in my thoughts remind me of a sub-standard third world, chicken/fruit hauling aircraft. I know that may hurt alot of "die-hard" Dash fans but, hey.. sometimes the truth hurts! What should hurt more is the fact that a Mechanic with Airways makes more an hour than most any captian for a W/O, ask any W/O captian about being "junior manned"....and a stores/stock room employee with Airways makes more an hour than ANY.. W/O mechanic. Or the customer scv./ operations agent or W/O stock room employee making $ 7.00 per. hour...thats right!! I have many good friends that work for both, 
I hope all employees at ALG and PDT find other employment to support themselves and family, we are all just numbers, all of us in the Group, to the powers (as of now) to be...everything makes a full circle. Good luck to all. 🙂
I hope all employees at ALG and PDT find other employment to support themselves and family, we are all just numbers, all of us in the Group, to the powers (as of now) to be...everything makes a full circle. Good luck to all. 🙂
PITbull
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 7,784
- Reaction score
- 456
Bob,
You say that Dave doesn't hate the employees. I find that eerie that you would know Dave's mind and how he views employees at all.
You say business is business and not to take it personally?
Losing jobs, and working for poverty wages with very little benefits and pay penalties in place is extremely personal to the employees here at U. When it comes to job performance and work-related stress, morale and the mental health of Dave's employees shuold be a HUGE concern to him as well as ALL the stake holders.
And the assets of the company ARE NOT DAVE'S. They belong to the stake holders and stock holders that we are all a part of.
You say that Dave doesn't hate the employees. I find that eerie that you would know Dave's mind and how he views employees at all.
You say business is business and not to take it personally?
Losing jobs, and working for poverty wages with very little benefits and pay penalties in place is extremely personal to the employees here at U. When it comes to job performance and work-related stress, morale and the mental health of Dave's employees shuold be a HUGE concern to him as well as ALL the stake holders.
And the assets of the company ARE NOT DAVE'S. They belong to the stake holders and stock holders that we are all a part of.
Sure Bob have it your way. No accountability, no final court of arbitration. Left to our own devices is the very reason we are the mess we are in today. What God you ask? There is only right and wrong and if you don’t know the difference therein lies your answer.PineyBob said:
Dea Certe
Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2002
- Messages
- 889
- Reaction score
- 0
Piney,
Dave "loves" the employees just as much as Ben B. "loves" the Cockroaches. We, the employees and the customers are in the same boat here. Fortunately, the 'roaches can "bail" to other carriers, while the employees continue to "bail" the sinking ship in the form of pay, benefits, jobs, etc.
What we need here is someone who is capable of running an airline. Dave has made many poor choices in the "bright and talented" team he's put together. Jerry Glass is ruining employee relations while Ben B. is ruining relationships with out best customers. Like you.
Dea
Dave "loves" the employees just as much as Ben B. "loves" the Cockroaches. We, the employees and the customers are in the same boat here. Fortunately, the 'roaches can "bail" to other carriers, while the employees continue to "bail" the sinking ship in the form of pay, benefits, jobs, etc.
What we need here is someone who is capable of running an airline. Dave has made many poor choices in the "bright and talented" team he's put together. Jerry Glass is ruining employee relations while Ben B. is ruining relationships with out best customers. Like you.
Dea
the company isn't going to sign anything with a hard figure as related to job numbers anywhere.they may agree to keep maintenence in a particular city provided no economic or political events change the business climate.N628AU said:
PITbull
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 7,784
- Reaction score
- 456
N6,
Answer to your query...he is asking for TAX Dollars to make up his decision. So that right there entitles the TAx payers of PA "fair" exchange in writing with shared risk. Ohterwise, U is free to decide what is best for the company. whatever that fate maybe WITHOUT TAX DOLLARS FROM PA.
Answer to your query...he is asking for TAX Dollars to make up his decision. So that right there entitles the TAx payers of PA "fair" exchange in writing with shared risk. Ohterwise, U is free to decide what is best for the company. whatever that fate maybe WITHOUT TAX DOLLARS FROM PA.
