twuer, I don't know about you, but I'm a licensed mechanic, that means that I have a skill (a professional). If you are refering to the coment I make about "representing us with a skill level not seen at other catch-all unions", I mean that AMFA is run by mechanics with a skill. They have been in our shoes and know what is like to be a mechanic. When we are represented by catch-all unions, we don't get the representation we deserve. We are out-numbered by lower classifications and it's the lower calssifications that put the people in office that most represents them. It has always been like that with the unions. Pilots don't have a lower class mechanic representing them do they? Why should we settle for anyone less than one of our own for representation? I also believe that the AMFA lawyers have our best interests in mind when a contract is negotiated. What does TWU have?
There Will Be An Election
- Thread starter Decision 2004
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OP
Decision 2004
Veteran
- Mar 12, 2004
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What will AMFA do you for all of you?
Simple,
Unions are "majority rule" organizations and with AMFA the mechanic is the majority. What part of "majority rule" don't you understand?
The Concept of “Craft or Classâ€
This is Federal Legal concept “Craft or Classâ€
In accordance with the Railway Labor Act, the Federal Government has decided that certain work groups have a mutuality of interest at the bargaining table and in advancing worker related issues, and that groups outside of that particular craft or class should have no participation in how the union is run or at least in the initial decision as to who represents that work group. And so Pilots vote with Pilots, and Flight Attendants as matter of law are prohibited from voting with the Pilots. And in turn, the Pilots are prohibited by law from voting with the Flight Attendants because they are considered to be in different Craft or Classes by the National Mediation Board. And Mechanic and Related Workers within the Airline Industry are entitled by law to vote just amongst themselves.
Supporters of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) believe that it comprises our mission to remain associated within a union structure with other crafts or classes that according to Federal Government do NOT share our mutuality of interest. The mission is further compromised when we remain associated with other crafts or classes within the union structure of “majority rule†and our particular craft or class is the minority in size. The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) is the only union in this current debate at American Airlines that says “We will forbid ourselvesâ€, it will be unconstitutional for us to go and represent baggage handlers, flight attendants, or passenger service clerks, and we will not let ourselves do that because this would compromise our mission. We wish the baggage handlers and other crafts or classes on the property the very best, but they cannot pick our pockets, we wish them to get the very best on their own, but they should no longer be allowed to ride on our backs. In other words, it is time for the airline industry to decouple the mechanic vs. baggage handler pay and benefit structure. It is suffice to say that since deregulation of the airline industry which since enactment has created enormous competition and pressure on airline ticket pricing, and that has resulted in the craft or class of mechanic and related workers suffering in economic buying power, and especially when compared to the Pilots and Flight Attendants who at American belong to craft specific unions. In the mid 1970’s, the Flight Attendants of American Airlines were also represented by the Transport Workers Union of American (TWU), and just as the mechanics today seek a change to a craft specific union, they also left the TWU in favor of the independent Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA) The craft or class of Mechanic and Related at American Airlines can no longer afford to remain in an organization that advocates a linking of different work groups that according to law do not share a mutuality of interest.
Regardless of good or bad economic times, and regardless of whether the union is negotiating concessions to prevent a bankruptcy filing or negotiating from economic growth with corporate profits, the formula by which the economic pie is divided amongst the union membership is a union decision. The recent concession are a clear case in point, because American Airlines was demanding $620 Million in concessions from the TWU, but how those give backs were divided up was a union decision, not a company decision. And the facts are clear, that the craft or class of Mechanic and Related at American took more than our fair share of that amount, and it is also clear this was a union decision.
AMFA IS THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR SKILLED TECHNICIANS
Simple,
Unions are "majority rule" organizations and with AMFA the mechanic is the majority. What part of "majority rule" don't you understand?
The Concept of “Craft or Classâ€
This is Federal Legal concept “Craft or Classâ€
In accordance with the Railway Labor Act, the Federal Government has decided that certain work groups have a mutuality of interest at the bargaining table and in advancing worker related issues, and that groups outside of that particular craft or class should have no participation in how the union is run or at least in the initial decision as to who represents that work group. And so Pilots vote with Pilots, and Flight Attendants as matter of law are prohibited from voting with the Pilots. And in turn, the Pilots are prohibited by law from voting with the Flight Attendants because they are considered to be in different Craft or Classes by the National Mediation Board. And Mechanic and Related Workers within the Airline Industry are entitled by law to vote just amongst themselves.
Supporters of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) believe that it comprises our mission to remain associated within a union structure with other crafts or classes that according to Federal Government do NOT share our mutuality of interest. The mission is further compromised when we remain associated with other crafts or classes within the union structure of “majority rule†and our particular craft or class is the minority in size. The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) is the only union in this current debate at American Airlines that says “We will forbid ourselvesâ€, it will be unconstitutional for us to go and represent baggage handlers, flight attendants, or passenger service clerks, and we will not let ourselves do that because this would compromise our mission. We wish the baggage handlers and other crafts or classes on the property the very best, but they cannot pick our pockets, we wish them to get the very best on their own, but they should no longer be allowed to ride on our backs. In other words, it is time for the airline industry to decouple the mechanic vs. baggage handler pay and benefit structure. It is suffice to say that since deregulation of the airline industry which since enactment has created enormous competition and pressure on airline ticket pricing, and that has resulted in the craft or class of mechanic and related workers suffering in economic buying power, and especially when compared to the Pilots and Flight Attendants who at American belong to craft specific unions. In the mid 1970’s, the Flight Attendants of American Airlines were also represented by the Transport Workers Union of American (TWU), and just as the mechanics today seek a change to a craft specific union, they also left the TWU in favor of the independent Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA) The craft or class of Mechanic and Related at American Airlines can no longer afford to remain in an organization that advocates a linking of different work groups that according to law do not share a mutuality of interest.
Regardless of good or bad economic times, and regardless of whether the union is negotiating concessions to prevent a bankruptcy filing or negotiating from economic growth with corporate profits, the formula by which the economic pie is divided amongst the union membership is a union decision. The recent concession are a clear case in point, because American Airlines was demanding $620 Million in concessions from the TWU, but how those give backs were divided up was a union decision, not a company decision. And the facts are clear, that the craft or class of Mechanic and Related at American took more than our fair share of that amount, and it is also clear this was a union decision.
AMFA IS THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR SKILLED TECHNICIANS
Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!
Senior
- Jan 26, 2004
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With the AMFA:
Anything, good or bad, that happens to us will be the result of a credible vote by the membership, INCLUDING ALL side letters of agreement. There won't be any dictators saving us from ourselves.
The AMFA will ENCOURAGE and ASSIST those members who do not have licenses to obtain them.
Members can "participate" in negotiations.
You'll have a union who hasn't lost the memberships trust and faith.
You'll be joining the other airlines in the industry in helping reverse the direction the industrial unions have taken our once "RESPECTED" profession.
You'll have a union that will say "NO" to the company.
Accountability from those who represent you!!
You'll have a union that is focused only on issues that pertain to our craft and class.
You'll be rid of the "Most DOCILE union in the industry" or the "AA mechanics union".
AA has proved that they will do just about anything to keep the twu on the property. How can this not raise a red flag with you people?? How is this benificial to the membership?? I personally have 15 years of concessions with the twu. Enough is Enough!!
Keep the Faith........VOTE AMFA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anything, good or bad, that happens to us will be the result of a credible vote by the membership, INCLUDING ALL side letters of agreement. There won't be any dictators saving us from ourselves.
The AMFA will ENCOURAGE and ASSIST those members who do not have licenses to obtain them.
Members can "participate" in negotiations.
You'll have a union who hasn't lost the memberships trust and faith.
You'll be joining the other airlines in the industry in helping reverse the direction the industrial unions have taken our once "RESPECTED" profession.
You'll have a union that will say "NO" to the company.
Accountability from those who represent you!!
You'll have a union that is focused only on issues that pertain to our craft and class.
You'll be rid of the "Most DOCILE union in the industry" or the "AA mechanics union".
AA has proved that they will do just about anything to keep the twu on the property. How can this not raise a red flag with you people?? How is this benificial to the membership?? I personally have 15 years of concessions with the twu. Enough is Enough!!
Keep the Faith........VOTE AMFA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Drip E. Kwill
Member
- Apr 24, 2004
- 54
- 0
You mean Dave Stewart will rep us with his bullet proof integrity? Hey Dave..post that e-mail again where the guy asked you to keep it confidential...the amfa way is the Stewart way..lies and disguise.flyguy767 said:
OP
Decision 2004
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- Mar 12, 2004
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FROM: M. E. Johnson
TWU Local 530 (Kansas City) E-Board Member
Date January 1st, 2004
Dave, I would appreciate you keeping this e-mail to yourself.
There is no way I can defend the TWU. We here at MCI are still in a learning curve as to the ways of the TWU. The mindset of the local and it's members are still IAM. We do not know the history of AA and it's relation with the TWU except for what we read on the BBs and what we learned through the transition team (and that was not much). With what little time I have been involved I can see a daily frustration between ourselves and TWU. I did get involved because it was a fresh start, a new company, a new union and I thought that maybe this would be my opportunity to help shape our local into something positive. That is not going to happen here no matter who the Union is. To many oldtimers set in thier ways. When the oldtimers retire and new blood is here then maybe things will change. The e-board here busts their ass for the membership and still there is no respect from the company or the membership, because we just don't know what we are doing yet.
Let me tell you the way it really is here at MCI... When the IAM left, the IAM people who were involved with the union just switched coats and became TWU. If AMFA was to get in, those same people would switch coats again and be AMFA. People want to #### but no-one wants to get involved. When your members don't want to step up to the plate, all you get is the die-hard rhetoric that we are all used to hearing.
I agree with Chuck Schalk when he said that if the TWU is so sure of itself, then lets have a vote and get it over with. My personal opinion is that you guys will kick their ass at a debate, but which debate will get the headlines?
AMFA@DFW ,(who I think is **** ******* but I'm not sure,) wants to turn this thing into a circus. I am not willing to stand up and debate or defend the TWU because my loyalty is just not there. Like I said in my post, there are more qualified people to do that.
again, this is where I'm coming from and please keep it confidential.
TWU Local 530 (Kansas City) E-Board Member
Date January 1st, 2004
Dave, I would appreciate you keeping this e-mail to yourself.
There is no way I can defend the TWU. We here at MCI are still in a learning curve as to the ways of the TWU. The mindset of the local and it's members are still IAM. We do not know the history of AA and it's relation with the TWU except for what we read on the BBs and what we learned through the transition team (and that was not much). With what little time I have been involved I can see a daily frustration between ourselves and TWU. I did get involved because it was a fresh start, a new company, a new union and I thought that maybe this would be my opportunity to help shape our local into something positive. That is not going to happen here no matter who the Union is. To many oldtimers set in thier ways. When the oldtimers retire and new blood is here then maybe things will change. The e-board here busts their ass for the membership and still there is no respect from the company or the membership, because we just don't know what we are doing yet.
Let me tell you the way it really is here at MCI... When the IAM left, the IAM people who were involved with the union just switched coats and became TWU. If AMFA was to get in, those same people would switch coats again and be AMFA. People want to #### but no-one wants to get involved. When your members don't want to step up to the plate, all you get is the die-hard rhetoric that we are all used to hearing.
I agree with Chuck Schalk when he said that if the TWU is so sure of itself, then lets have a vote and get it over with. My personal opinion is that you guys will kick their ass at a debate, but which debate will get the headlines?
AMFA@DFW ,(who I think is **** ******* but I'm not sure,) wants to turn this thing into a circus. I am not willing to stand up and debate or defend the TWU because my loyalty is just not there. Like I said in my post, there are more qualified people to do that.
again, this is where I'm coming from and please keep it confidential.
- Aug 20, 2002
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The author admits that his e-mail was a deceitful attempt to garner information for his TWU supportive position. You accuse Dave Stewart of deceit, when the intent of the e-mail was deceit in its origination.Drip E. Kwill said:
Maybe you should consider the whole story before you make yourself look foolish.
I don't know were you get your info but you need to fire him/her. The twu list has nor dead people on it than the company's, and the twu turned in only just above 2000 names (the company almost 9x that number). So I guess that we are not the twu's top priority. We did nothing illegal to obtain what we did for our dispute, but policy for the company may have changed since thentwuer said:
. I myself know of no one who has intentionally deceived anyone with the facts we have put out to the class and craft. Yes, there have been mistakes but we have always corrected them when found. The people I have run into who intentionally deceive have been the twu. The twu has intentionally tried to add non class and craft to the list they turned in to the NMB :angry: . You saying that they have not is like watching you spit into the wind and seeing it come right back in your face. There will be an election in June, of that I have no doubt.AMFA will stop the side letters of agreement that your twu buddies LOVE to sign without membership approval. Like two of my all time favorites. 1. Reno aircraft maintenance given away by the twu. and 2. Allowing the company to go into the shops and bring out AMT's that were working in the hangars prior to your allowing the company to layoff workers. This of course is allowed to happen out of order of senoirity. The first letter was done during Burchettes watch, the other, well it is pretty current. I do have a copy of the RENO letter, but I don't have one of the labor loans. Anyone down at the hall posting on MY time care to post that one?j7915 said:
I read the part of the contract regarding senoirity list that you guys tried to keep from the membership ( I am at home, not at work like a lot of the twu guys so I don't have a copy of the contract handy, otherwise I would be happy to scan it for you) to my father, ex Delta pilot, ALPA represented. I read that and told him about the way guys can get moved out of shop out of senoirity by the company at will. I quote "what the f---- do you guys have a union for?" My reply, "we don't." We both feel that all you really have with a union is your senoirity, if you loose that or can't prove it you really don't have a union.
Of course with AMFA side letters of agreement have to be ratified by the membership. Any guess as to which of these two beauties would have been ratified by the membership? I doubt either one, so I would say that with AMFA I would have been able to help keep the members senoirity rights.
The Reno deal was really upsetting to me because the AMFA guys asked Burchette about what was being done at AAR. His response was that they were just changing seat covers and painting the exterior. A friend came to me and told me that he had a buddy that worked at AAR and that Dennis was lying
and that in fact they were doing heavy checks. When we confronted him with that then we got a copy of the letter of agreement. Oops no membership approval, and another lie.Yeah, I want more of this. And to top it off Dennis is running for office again! If you guys let me vote in the election for officers (if you guys have one for maintenance and related before AMFA wins representation rights) I will vote for Dennis, he was one of the best AMFA organizers ever!
Gotta go.
twu out the door in 04
Okay, whatever Radman. Let's just say that I know a lot more than you think I do. Take that for what you will!!!Radman said:I don't know were you get your info but you need to fire him/her. The twu list has nor dead people on it than the company's, and the twu turned in only just above 2000 names (the company almost 9x that number). So I guess that we are not the twu's top priority. We did nothing illegal to obtain what we did for our dispute, but policy for the company may have changed since then
So what you are saying is that you already know that the dead people were on the list? Or are you saying that you already know that 90% of the twu list is fraudulent (because it is fraud when you know it is wrong)?twuer said:Okay, whatever Radman. Let's just say that I know a lot more than you think I do. Take that for what you will!!!
Drip E. Kwill
Member
- Apr 24, 2004
- 54
- 0
Does this mean we'll be joining the furloughed mechanics at UAl and NWA? Does this mean we'll be joing the mechanics that lost the FM1 decision? That allows outsourcing at an alarming rate? That has no AFL-CIO rep? That is not run by union people but by real-estate agents? We are to join this? Oh boy...can't wait.
If history proves itself true then Dave Stewart and the other organizers will organize themselves right out of a job. Question though...for those of us that know Dave Stewart and his cowardly ways...is he a leader you want to follow? Oh wait..I'm asking the wrong ones here...you think a guy that has no morals is admirable...e.g.., Cunningham. Might I suggest here the you guys are some weird cookies...just a thought.
Hackman
Veteran
- Sep 30, 2003
- 3,997
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- Banned
- #28
Oh earl, you mean to tell us we don't have any layoffs here at AA to go along with our industry leading concessions? How about that outsourcing? The government says ours is at AA 41%. Now who am I gonna believe? The government that AA reports to, or the twu, that still can't get an RO report and states its only 21%.Drip E. Kwill said:
How about that afl-cio, unions are withdrawing in record numbers because of the corruption and lies. Have ya seen the latest complaint from the ibt about the raid
the iam is conducting at Allegheny? How about that broke afl-cio?Well I'd take ol' Dave any day over a loser that jumps over to management, rifles through others toolboxes looking for dirt, and in general is a rat POS.
You want to talk Company Man Dan's morals, how many people have you helped get their jobs back? None? Dan has helped many, many people in trouble. Some of them twu believers.
I might suggest you crawl back in your hole, and stay there, moron.
THE twu IS OUT THE DOOR IN 04!!!!
local 12 proud
Veteran
- Mar 5, 2004
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swoooooooosssshhhhhhhhh! the sound of dip #### quill as he spirals around the toilet bowl........see ya turd breath!
Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!
Senior
- Jan 26, 2004
- 279
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Drip E. Kwilllocal 12 proud said:
A prime example of why we only need 50% plus 1 votes.
We all know it will be an uphill battle and I really don't mind dragging some up and over with us!!
You'll see the light soon enough!!!!
Keep the Faith.......VOTE AMFA!!!!!!!!!
