The TWU Conssesions History

[767 mechanic]

NWA = All but 900 jobs lost
AS = Entire overhaul base shutdown OAK and ~400 jobs and should be making more than WN. AS chased WN out of the Northwest US and stock price is going nowhere but up. Where was the AMFA "balls"?
UA = All airframe overhaul jobs allowed to be outsourced ~4,000 jobs lost
WN = Not even a whimper when overhaul lines sent to El Salvador with maybe 100 jobs added in return and only expended the IBT contract. Where are the AMFA "balls"

TWU = Had number two in pay until the AMFA sympathizers (Owens, Peterson, Pike, Chuck, and Ken) managed to shoot it down and we would have had all our overhaul in-house. That would have been a major win for the TWU and stomped all over all the other contracts. The TWU Int'l highly recommended this contract along with Luis, Woodward, Meyers, and Clark to name a few. They obviously realized the gravity of the situation and the facts. We would have been opening up on a new contract in 2013 but now what. The "leaders with balls" recommended against the advice of the Int'l and said we could get better. Instead the "will of the membership" prevailed (something you erroneously say the TWU does not have) and decided to give the Vote No Coalition, or VNC (AMFA/AMP guys) the opportunity to prove themselves. Now we are in BK which is what the VNC dismissed as pro-company propaganda from the TWU Int'l. Well that wasn't true now was it. Was the VNC responsible for AA going to BK? Of course not however they grossly miscalculated and now you and other AMFA and IBT advocates claim it is the TWU's fault we got a crappy deal in BK? WTF when will the VNC and the other union organizers wake up. We all own this and now will live it. If we had taken the May 2010 deal as recommended, we would most likely be in the same boat as the MCTs. They got to keep their pay rate from the May 2010 deal and we would have been haggling over work rules and outsourcing. But here we are. Can AMFA fix our current position? Hell no! Can the IBT? Hell no. We are totally screwed like the UA, DL, and US guys were after BK and we will be living this for at least four years (early openers) but at least we are not like NW. AMFA led them totally off the cliff and they never recovered.

Sorry for the harsh facts brother.

First of all you are lieing again. The membership is what voted to go on strike not the AMFA officers that were voted into office. Remember one of the reasons that they were going on strike is that the company wanted outsource all facility maintenance and gse work. That means everything that AA calls title 2 work. You and the other twu believers have continuely tried to say that the AMFA was an elitist union and that only cared about amt's. To me that does not sound like an elitist union. It sounds more like a group of people that is concerned about there fellow brothers and sisters in the mechanic and related craft and class. As for what happened at AS I slapped you down with that one before. Oh by the way nice play on words by saying entire base shut down at Oak. Is that kind alike the MCIE base being shut down or is it more like the entire base at AFW being shut down or is it more like Tulsa being closed slowly in the near future. You know as well as I do that there were 3 bays and 340 mechanics at the AS Oak base. I asked you this question before and you refused answer because you would have proven that you are a liar again. So I will ask you again. Who has outsourced more overhaul maitenance the twu or the AMFA? I know the correct answer. Are you going to lie to the readers here on this forum? Please do,when you lie we end up getting more cards signed. How many lines of maintenace were at MCIE when the twu started misrepresenting those people? How many members were there at MCIE base? How many lines of maintenance are there at AFW along with drop in lines? How many people are losing there jobs at AFW? You are pretty good when it comes to pointing fingers,but not very good at looking in the mirror. AS chasing SW out of the NW? That is a management problem not a union problem unless you would like the AMFA to follow in the footsteps of the twu by taking concessions in order to save the company so that the executives can get there bonuses. Here we go again with the lie about the AMFA losing all the UAL overhaul jobs. Do you know how stupid you sound? Telling that lie over and over again when when the people reading this forum have already read it here or can find it themselves on line that the IAM was the ones that agreed to outsource those jobs. Even the iam lover 700uw can't deny this. Lets see here is another lie or should I allow you a little dignity and call it partial lie. Yes there were 2 lines outsourced to El Salvadore at SWA,but what you are not telling the readers here is that those 2 lines were already outsourced within the US and simply went to another location and if SW wanted to move the lines to another location,they would both have to go and the company would not be able to split the lines at seperate locations. So in reality what happened was the AMFA negotiated to bring a heavy check line in house in exchange for allowing the company to move the maintenance that was already outsourced from one location to another along with making the company keep both lines together without splitting them up in different locations. So as you are trying to get people to believe that the AMFA allowed more work to be outsorced is nothing more than a common lie. So what does that make you? I guess to answer your question about AMFA balls is that they clank. They brought a heavy check line back in house and created more jobs,not losing them like the twu is doing by allowing a maintenance base to be shut down that has 104% on time performance using your words without a whimper. A question for you is how many layoffs have they had at SW? So now you and your buddy Van de loo can get together and try and spin this. Have fun trying.

 

[AC Tynker]

Do not forget the misfits at 514 where all guilty of promoting vote no. I recall they put out a letter stating such.

If you are talking about The 514 Negotiating Leadership promoting a No Vote and putting a letter out promoting a No Vote you are completely mistaken. It was all about a yes and Luis told everyone that the repercussions of voting it down were to be a very bleak future for AMTs at AA.

 

[swamt]

Tell me....What AMFA would have done to stop AA from abrogating the agreement.....like they just did with the pilots?? After 22 years with AA, I'm totally relieved of paying any union to continue the outsourcing train. There's no fight left in beaten down.....concession weary amt's, at any airline. most do just enough to save their A&P. The love of aviation has come and gone........most come to work, and do very little, and as long as the paycheck doesn't bounce.....they're content. At this point....whether it's TWU, AMFA or Teamsters....the airlines have figured out ways to beat the union. And, do you think management is that stupid to pay top dollar for little to no work being done by some of the slugs....most unions protect. Tell me.....when have you ever seen any union try and weed out the slugs??? At AA, management doesn't get the bang for the buck from it's amt's! Management may have mis-managed AA...but, the union's have mis-managed their duties to control the members. If I sat across the table from the union during negotiations.....I would also question the fact "that you want me to pay your mechanic $40/hr.....so he can come to work and play with his laptop, cry when he's handed a job, and then #### and moan that the company's "F"ing him". That's why DL, UA, AA, and all the other carriers farm out the work.....right? They get the bang for the buck....and it's cheaper. At least that's the way I see it. And I don't have a business degree......it's called common sense.

Don't take this wrong, but we are at 44.00 plus per hour. Not 40. I do hear what you are saying, and I agree with most of it. And your correct, it's all about common sense...

 

[swamt]

The TWU may have given concessions in the past but they did not start the post 9/11 concessions train, that would be the IAM at USAir in 2002.

Josh

You are 100% correct. The TWU did not start the conssesions train post 9/11. They started it way back in 1993, then 2003, and yet again soon to be 2013, but actually happened in 2012. Every 10 years thanks to the great and almighty TWU... Any questions???

 

[swamt]

NWA = All but 900 jobs lost
AS = Entire overhaul base shutdown OAK and ~400 jobs and should be making more than WN. AS chased WN out of the Northwest US and stock price is going nowhere but up. Where was the AMFA "balls"?
UA = All airframe overhaul jobs allowed to be outsourced ~4,000 jobs lost
WN = Not even a whimper when overhaul lines sent to El Salvador with maybe 100 jobs added in return and only expended the IBT contract. Where are the AMFA "balls"

TWU = Had number two in pay until the AMFA sympathizers (Owens, Peterson, Pike, Chuck, and Ken) managed to shoot it down and we would have had all our overhaul in-house. That would have been a major win for the TWU and stomped all over all the other contracts. The TWU Int'l highly recommended this contract along with Luis, Woodward, Meyers, and Clark to name a few. They obviously realized the gravity of the situation and the facts. We would have been opening up on a new contract in 2013 but now what. The "leaders with balls" recommended against the advice of the Int'l and said we could get better. Instead the "will of the membership" prevailed (something you erroneously say the TWU does not have) and decided to give the Vote No Coalition, or VNC (AMFA/AMP guys) the opportunity to prove themselves. Now we are in BK which is what the VNC dismissed as pro-company propaganda from the TWU Int'l. Well that wasn't true now was it. Was the VNC responsible for AA going to BK? Of course not however they grossly miscalculated and now you and other AMFA and IBT advocates claim it is the TWU's fault we got a crappy deal in BK? WTF when will the VNC and the other union organizers wake up. We all own this and now will live it. If we had taken the May 2010 deal as recommended, we would most likely be in the same boat as the MCTs. They got to keep their pay rate from the May 2010 deal and we would have been haggling over work rules and outsourcing. But here we are. Can AMFA fix our current position? Hell no! Can the IBT? Hell no. We are totally screwed like the UA, DL, and US guys were after BK and we will be living this for at least four years (early openers) but at least we are not like NW. AMFA led them totally off the cliff and they never recovered.

Sorry for the harsh facts brother.

Overspeed, you need to get your facts straight. You are starting to post JUST LIKE Anomaly, Rice, and Realityck. Get your facts and info verified prior to posting. I will correct you only on one of your postings. It was, in fact, not AMFA that allowed the outsoucing overseas or out of the country for maint. It was in fact the teamsters that had "0", zilch, notta a single verbage to not allow SWA to farm out maint outside the USA. This is very easily verified, just look at the contracts written by the teamsters prior to AMFA taking over after we fired the teamsters...

 

[swamt]

Are you sure about that?

How many times are you going to post lies and misinformation.

ALPA was the first union on the property to give concessions in 2002, they did it before US filed chapter 11. The IAM was the last union to agree to concessions in the 2002 Chapter 11 case, and we voted down the concessions the first time.

Once again, dont let the facts get in your way.

And by the way the TWU started the concessions way back in 1983, way before anything ever happened at US.

Thank you for the correction 700UW. I thought it went back to 1993, but I can see now that it goes as far back as 1983, yet another decade of negativity with the wonderfull TWU... So, 1983 to 2013 that's a whopping 30 years of conssesions with the TWU. Again, what does it take people, what does it take??

 

[JAFI]

2008-2012 The current contract. And it was a sec 6 nego by AMFA. The problem was that AMFA took over the contract from the teamsters that had absolutely no restrictions for the company to farm out overseas. And BTW I voted no on the last contract.

Sounds to me like you need to focus your efforts on your own brothers.

What percentage is your outsourcing at? You have no idea what it is like, has been like, for the legacy carries who have and are facing the furlough of THOUSANDS of brothers. And those affected the worst are the ones with young families, kids still in school. SWA isn't hit as hard because they always outsourced a large portion of their maintenance.

The #### we got going on at work is real, life altering. And here comes someone who's company has been among the largest outsourcers to sing the "I get $44 bucks an hour" at a time when families are in crisis. Jesus Christ, grow up. This right now, it isn't about YOU!

 

[TWU informer]

Sounds to me like you need to focus your efforts on your own brothers.

What percentage is your outsourcing at? You have no idea what it is like, has been like, for the legacy carries who have and are facing the furlough of THOUSANDS of brothers. And those affected the worst are the ones with young families, kids still in school. SWA isn't hit as hard because they always outsourced a large portion of their maintenance.

The #### we got going on at work is real, life altering. And here comes someone who's company has been among the largest outsourcers to sing the "I get $44 bucks an hour" at a time when families are in crisis. Jesus Christ, grow up. This right now, it isn't about YOU!

And YOU voted yes?

 

[AC Tynker]

And YOU voted yes?

I am not a gambler, I don't ever go to a casino to play any of their games or buy scratch offs and I have never bought a lottery ticket. I can totally understand why people wouldn't want to gamble a No vote to hope it would have gotten better. That is all that was is a total playing the odds gamble especially by yourself and others that were pushing so very hard for a NO were to be employed no matter how the vote went unless they closed the doors at AA completely To mention how JAFI voted in reference to his comment to SWAMT makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[TWU informer]

I am not a gambler, I don't ever go to a casino to play any of their games or buy scratch offs and I have never bought a lottery ticket. I can totally understand why people wouldn't want to gamble a No vote to hope it would have gotten better. That is all that was is a total playing the odds gamble especially by yourself and others that were pushing so very hard for a NO were to be employed no matter how the vote went unless they closed the doors at AA completely To mention how JAFI voted in reference to his comment to SWAMT makes no sense whatsoever.

Chronic Complainer strikes again!!!

 

[Tex-Mech]

I am not a gambler,

Nor or are you a fighter, a unionist, in favor of solidarity, willing to risk your appointed cushy position, etc.etc.etc.

 

[strikeforce]

Don't take this wrong, but we are at 44.00 plus per hour. Not 40. I do hear what you are saying, and I agree with most of it. And your correct, it's all about common sense...

great you make $44/hr.....but you didn't answer my question......."what would AMFA do to prevent AA from abrogating the CBA?"

And, what sort of job protections does AMFA provide the SWA amt's......even though SWA is able to outsource??

 

[swamt]

Sounds to me like you need to focus your efforts on your own brothers.

What percentage is your outsourcing at? You have no idea what it is like, has been like, for the legacy carries who have and are facing the furlough of THOUSANDS of brothers. And those affected the worst are the ones with young families, kids still in school. SWA isn't hit as hard because they always outsourced a large portion of their maintenance.

The #### we got going on at work is real, life altering. And here comes someone who's company has been among the largest outsourcers to sing the "I get $44 bucks an hour" at a time when families are in crisis. Jesus Christ, grow up. This right now, it isn't about YOU!

Relax. If you would go back and re-read some postings you would find out that I was asked if someone was correct about our wages at SWA, while also comparing to UPS's wages. It was in no way a rah-rah session. I would not do that, and most out here already know this.
Now to your comments; I also focuss my efforts on my own fellow members, just multi tasking.
SWA outsources aprox 65-75%. Overall they have averaged around the 70%.
SWA is not hit as hard due to the plain and simple fact that SWA is managed alot better period.
Please go back and re-read the postings, I think you will get a better idea of why I posted it. If you don't know already, I also post openings at SWA to try to help the AA'ers that want to jump ship now instead of waiting for the new changes to start. I knew that post was going to get at least one poster yelling at me, hence, the quote before it. Believe me brother, I meant no harm in that post, not singing out a rah-rah while you guys are going thru what you are going thru. I apologize to each and everyone of you if I affended you. I will take a little more thought to my messages while posting in the future. Again, sorry for the way I posted it.

 

[swamt]

great you make $44/hr.....but you didn't answer my question......."what would AMFA do to prevent AA from abrogating the CBA?"

And, what sort of job protections does AMFA provide the SWA amt's......even though SWA is able to outsource??

For your first question; I have no clue what AMFA would have done. I cannot answer that, as nobody could answer that. What is done at AMFA is desided by the membership, so how could I answer that truthfully. I can only direct you to the most recent BK nego's done by AMFA at UAL to get the slightest idea of what might happen. And AMFA did get better protections nego for the UAL guys in San Fran.

Your 2nd question; AMFA has brought in numerous protections "since" the reamsters got fired. I will not list them all, but here are some examples. Headcount garr for all heavy maint lines, Headcount garr for several, if not all back and support shops, no lay-offs or rifs while outsourcing any maint. And there is more. If you want more I must refer you to our publicly available contract at AMFA11.com or on AMFA National web site.

 

[1AA]

great you make $44/hr.....but you didn't answer my question......."what would AMFA do to prevent AA from abrogating the CBA?"

And, what sort of job protections does AMFA provide the SWA amt's......even though SWA is able to outsource??

You have to look at the culture at SWA. The relationship between the company and the workers. It is not the same as here at AA. A co worker who has been employed at AA since 1982 mentioned to me the other day that since he has been at AA it has NEVER been a labor friendly environment. Can we say that about others like SWA and non union Delta?
Here is a example on how well SWA treats its employees.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/southwest-airlines-named-one-americas-173000328.html

To make a comparison you have to have similarities. AA vs Labor is unique in its own way. No comparison can be made. The closest one might be USAir.