The results are in!

[Thomas Paine]

Don't know about thousands, but fleet did lose a number of jobs to Eagle under the leadership of the TWU. Oh, did I mention they lost a number of jobs to Eagle, represented by the TWU.

Hey those are still TWU jobs so you should be ok with that. At least thats what mechanics were told when we lost jobs to fleet over the last 30 years.

 

[1AA]

Hey those are still TWU jobs so you should be ok with that. At least thats what mechanics were told when we lost jobs to fleet over the last 30 years.

Another reason for us to have our own class and craft representation organization.
We lost push backs and deicing. I am sure more have gone by the way side.
A Checks being done outside of the country.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Another reason for us to have our own class and craft representation organization.
We lost push backs and deicing. I am sure more have gone by the way side.
A Checks being done outside of the country.

What about 25% of the base jobs we gave all those concessions to save going to OSMs? Dilutes demand for A&Ps, lowers the average wage and hurts us as a class and craft.

 

[Thomas Paine]

guaranteed until a company walks into BK and wipes it out.

A wage increase may or may not be larger than a profit sharing.

DL employees systemwide are getting an 8.2% profit sharing check in two weeks. No employees, including pilots, received that much in a pay raise.

Looks like 700 shut you down there WT. Besides as much as you company types try and spin it a  one time profit sharing of 8% is not as good as a raise that compounds.   Delta mechanics are about as disgruntled as mechanics anywhere else, and just as lazy about doing anything about it. Besides at Delta if you do try and get a Union there is a good chance the company will find a way to fire you. They have the same mentality and any other totalitarian organization. 

 

[Thomas Paine]

 
So is it good management to just outsource work they manage badly or is it good management that manages work well in-house and turns a healthy profit without outsourcing?

So do you consider yourself to be a good manager or a bad ex-union rep? Kind of premature to determine that isnt it?

 

[robbedagain]

Looks like 700 shut you down there WT. Besides as much as you company types try and spin it a  one time profit sharing of 8% is not as good as a raise that compounds.   Delta mechanics are about as disgruntled as mechanics anywhere else, and just as lazy about doing anything about it. Besides at Delta if you do try and get a Union there is a good chance the company will find a way to fire you. They have the same mentality and any other totalitarian organization.

+100000

 

[WorldTraveler]

Looks like 700 shut you down there WT. Besides as much as you company types try and spin it a  one time profit sharing of 8% is not as good as a raise that compounds.   Delta mechanics are about as disgruntled as mechanics anywhere else, and just as lazy about doing anything about it. Besides at Delta if you do try and get a Union there is a good chance the company will find a way to fire you. They have the same mentality and any other totalitarian organization.

first of all, at current interest rates, it doesn't take a much lower raise than 8% in order for the compounding effect to be wiped out.
2nd, only the DL pilots got a raise over 5% and then only for one year - and they gave up scope and also gave the co. a lot of schedule flexibility to get that extra couple percent.
I have seen no one offer a proposal for any other employee group to give up scope or increase schedule flexibility to match what the pilots gave the company.

your statement that any employee group is unhappy has no meaning unless you can demonstrate it.... DL employees have consistently said they are not interested in any further unionization.

You can call them lazy and unhappy but there aren't enough people who want a union in Tech Ops to start the legal process to change it.

It absolutely frosts your crotch to admit that DL does listen to its people and the vast majority do have favorable views of mgmt which is why they choose to maintain the time-tested direct employee mgmt relationship that works far better than what any other airline mgmt has.

Besides, go look at the DL thread and one of the pro-union mechanics there says DL expects to be hiring hundreds of mechanics in the next few years.

Given layoffs at other airlines, DL should have no problem finding many well-qualified mechanics who are ready to start a career at Delta as non-union employees.

 

[700UW]

Here we go again, your lying
 


 

By
Susan Carey



June 29, 2012 2:00 p.m. ET
Pilots at Delta Air Lines Inc. DAL +0.10% ratified a new labor agreement, with 62% of the ballots cast in favor, the Air Line Pilots Association union said Friday.
The new accord was reached after a scant two months of bargaining, probably a speed record in the industry, and will succeed the aviators' current pact, which was supposed to run through the end of this year.
 
The nearly 11,000 pilots will receive a 4% pay increase on this week, another increase of 8.5% in January and then two annual increases of 3%, according to an earlier union bulletin that explained the terms of the deal reached May 15. By the end of 2014, pay rates will be nearly 20% higher than they are today, ALPA said in that bulletin. A 737 captain who earned $153 an hour in 2008, the year Delta and Northwest Airlines merged, will be paid $217 an hour effective in January 2015.
 
Aside from the higher pay rates and an increase in the company's contribution to the pilot's pension plan in 2014, the Delta pilots won increased flying as the airline is acquiring 88 small Boeing Co. BA -1.00% 717s jetliners that will be flown by them, not pilots at Delta's commuter affiliates. In return, the pilots will let Delta add 70 smaller jets to its regional airline operations and require Delta to phase out some of the smallest 50-seat jets flown by the regional affiliates.


 
 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304058404577496790953561450

 

[robbedagain]

Why no other group get that much..... hmmm

 

[Thomas Paine]

first of all, at current interest rates, it doesn't take a much lower raise than 8% in order for the compounding effect to be wiped out.2nd, only the DL pilots got a raise over 5% and then only for one year - and they gave up scope and also gave the co. a lot of schedule flexibility to get that extra couple percent.I have seen no one offer a proposal for any other employee group to give up scope or increase schedule flexibility to match what the pilots gave the company.your statement that any employee group is unhappy has no meaning unless you can demonstrate it.... DL employees have consistently said they are not interested in any further unionization.You can call them lazy and unhappy but there aren't enough people who want a union in Tech Ops to start the legal process to change it.It absolutely frosts your crotch to admit that DL does listen to its people and the vast majority do have favorable views of mgmt which is why they choose to maintain the time-tested direct employee mgmt relationship that works far better than what any other airline mgmt has.Besides, go look at the DL thread and one of the pro-union mechanics there says DL expects to be hiring hundreds of mechanics in the next few years.Given layoffs at other airlines, DL should have no problem finding many well-qualified mechanics who are ready to start a career at Delta as non-union employees.

1. Out of the last ten years how many has Delta paid 8% profit sharing? According to the article the UNIONIZED PILOTSs will see a 20% increase.
-Ok lets do some rough math, 8% times $100k =$8000, usually not matched in 401K either, one shot deal and pay remains the same next year, meaning that if profits are not as high they will make Less than $108k. plus $5500 in the 401k if they have a 5,5% match. So under your better deal non union take profit sharing instead of structural raises they end up say $113, 500 from the company but remain at $100,000 a year in pay. Year number two lets say they end up with 8% profit sharing again, unlikely but lets be optimistic-same as the year before $113.500 and the following year the same again, once again $113, 500, so over the three years they earn a total of $34500. Their base pay remains at $100k

-20% times $100k -$20k, or $120k plus a 5.5% match in the 401K = $6600, for a total of 126,600, then they get another 3% increase, thats a $3798 increase to $130398, then the third year they get another 3% on top of that, add another $3911, which increases it to $134310/year. for a total of $391,308. Their base pay is now over $127000.

Ok so you are trying to say that $345,000 is more than $391,000 and you are better off settling for one time profit sharing instead of structural increases? Stick to selling God in South America, we don't need your snake oil here.

2. Yep they pilots gave up some scope protections, the non union workers never had it to give up.

3-My claim that they are unhappy is just as valid as your claim they are. The difference is I went to A&P school with those guys, they talk freely to me, can you say the same? Who the hell are you to say that you know more than others that if they were unhappy that they would have Unions when the company spends millions on Union Busters to threaten and coerce the people against joining unions.

4- Deltas totalitarian structure works better than SWA? Doubtful. I'll bet not one mechanic has quit SWA to go work for Delta, in fact I know of several mechanics who quit Delta to work at AA. So no it doesn't frost my nuts as you claim.

5- EVERY airline, most MROs and every other outfit that employs A&Ps expects to be hiring over the next few years.

6- Show me one airline that has laid off mechanics in the last year, other than AA which just went through BK show me one that has laid off in the last five years.

7-Delta already is having problems finding qualified mechanics, thats why they have school kids working on their planes. If there was an abundant supply why would they bother?

Stick to doling out free clothes, sneakers, food and of course Bibles to the illiterate masses in South America as you try to convince them that your interpretation of Christ's teachings are more accurate than the Popes but we arent buying what you are selling here.

 

[WorldTraveler]

are you all really THAT dense to realize this is not the end of 2014 so making a statement that they have received a 20% pay raise is incorrect.

TODAY IS Jan 31, 2014 EST at the time I write this thread.

DL pilots HAVE NOT RECEIVED 20% pay raises.

Further, DL employees in ALL departments have received pay raises every year that the pilots have.

It really doesn't matter how badly you want to keep repeating the same thing over and over again. DL pilots DID NOT receive larger pay raises than other DL employees in any year except for the year that they allowed DL to buy dozens more large RJs. Tell me again what other employee group at any airline outside of BK has given a similar concession to the company without gaining something for it.

DL has more non-scope airport employees working in more locations than any other legacy carrier in the US. DL Tech Ops is on its way to becoming the largest employer of civilian mechanics in the US - without scope.

AA and US won't be doing net hiring of mechanics. They will be laying them off.


Quit worrying about trying to convince DL mechanics that they should make the same as DL pilots

and instead

ANSWER THE QUESTION FROM AA'S OWN MECHANICS WHY THEY DON'T MAKE WHAT DL MECHANICS MAKE.

WHAT HAS THE WORTHLESS UNION DONE FOR ITS DUES PAYING MEMBERS?


THE EMPLOYEES OF DELTA AIR LINES WHO DECIDE UNION ELECTIONS SEE ABSOLUTELY NO VALUE IN UNION REPRESENTATION.

Feel free to continue to try to convince them otherwise but all you are doing is succeeding at proving how horribly incompetently you handle even the most basic information.

 

[Thomas Paine]

are you all really THAT dense to realize this is not the end of 2014 so making a statement that they have received a 20% pay raise is incorrect.TODAY IS Jan 31, 2014 EST at the time I write this thread.DL pilots HAVE NOT RECEIVED 20% pay raises.Further, DL employees in ALL departments have received pay raises every year that the pilots have.It really doesn't matter how badly you mental midgets want to keep repeating the same thing over and over again.THE EMPLOYEES OF DELTA AIR LINES WHO DECIDE UNION ELECTIONS SEE ABSOLUTELY NO VALUE IN UNION REPRESENTATION.

Are you that dense that you don't see that I was showing how structural raises are better than one time profit sharing raises that do not compound and are not compounded in the 401k?
Why does Delta spend millions of dollars trying to prevent elections if they are so sure that they dont want unions?
Tell us do the people in South America pay you to go preach to them? Maybe they dont see much value in that.

Tell us how much does Delta give to your Charity? Is that why you are here? Do you rationalize your deceitful acts here as a means to an end there? Like a woman turning to Prostitution to feed her children?

And Walmart is the largest employer of retail workers, does that mean its a good place to work? if so then why arent you working there?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Are you dense enough not to realize that DL has paid profit sharing over 5% for several years now. The pilots have not received a pay raise greater than 5% except in one year - and still the profit sharing is greater than 8% in that case.

What in the hell does S. America and charity have to do with this discussion?

Answer the question about why AA mechanics don't make as much as DL mechanics. AA employees asked the question and you instead choose to attack DL instead.

AA mechanics don't like what they have and want the union out and DL mechanics don't want the unions in.

Couldn't be any clearer.

 

[robbedagain]

By end of this yr delta pilots will be paid 20% more while the rest of them get a measly 3% sharp difference.

as for aa mechanics id would never be shocked if the new aa mechanics ask for a higher increase.

so in your warped mind the EMPLOYEES OF DELTA WHO DECIDE UNION ELECTIONS SEE NO VALUE IS DUMB? WELL HERE let me be clear... if and only if they vote in a union then may be just maybe they see a different side than from an Ex Delta employee

 

[Thomas Paine]

The question was clear, last 10 years.
What does SAmerica have to do with this discussion? About as much as Delta does with this discussion, trying to figure out your motives, why not answer the question. Does Delta donate to your charity? And is that why you are here?

Even though you wont answer my question that has nothing to do with this thread I will answer yours, even though its been answered before. In our case we were screwed because the Union we paid dues to was run by appointed people who did everything they could to insure that the Union would not interfere in the company's desire to get everything they wanted as if there was no union. In the end enough members were led astray and we voted in this crap deal and will have to live with it, since then those people have been removed, it happens but one bad group of Union bosses doesn't make the whole union concept flawed, ie Enron, BOA, Jim Baker, Ted Haggard, etc etc etc. Over the years there have been many attempts to get rid of the TWU, but NONE of those were attempts to go Non-Union, they were all attempts to go to a different union.

So does Delta donate to your "charity"?