The new Northwest...named "Delta"

[North by Northwest]

It is my understanding that the pilots got something like a 3% stake in the new Delta and I am not sure what their raise was, and flight attendants just got a 3% raise and they will get something like a 3.5%stake in the new Delta. Even though we do not have a contract historically every time our pilots recieve a raise of some kind the f/a's usually get one also. Please correct me if I am wrong. Also, you said that Delta keeps us at the bottom, I'm not sure what bottom you are talking about but traditionally Delta has usually been at the top of pay among the legacy carriers. However since bankruptcy we have slipped some. Any pay cuts we inccured during bankruptcy were not due to any management team memeber associated with NWA. Delta has commited to bringing us up to industry standard pay and I believe with this last raise we are getting there but not yet. I'm sure that DL was not the only airline to give things up during the latest indusrty down turn. Since you seem to know our pay package so well please tell me excactly where your pay and benefits are better, and I am not saying that they are, I just am curious as to excatly what you recieve that we do not. Are you getting your information from AFA? Just curious.

Cooper, I applaud you for being sincerely interested in the nuts and bolts of all this change. One can never have too much information, just make sure it is from a variety of sources.

You and I both know the motivating factor in the low turn out at the Delta vote was the veiled hint by Delta "haven't we always TAKEN care of Delta employees" (that's code for screwed others over for your benefit). Many were hoping the same would happen with the proposed NW merger. By not voting in a Union at this juncture, you have lost many things that timing would have allowed.

As for your question regarding Delta being the lowest paid. Delta cannot have the lowest cost in FA labor with out being the lowest compensated. That is just simple economics. You will have to break down the comparison on your own. Goggle Delta's cost comparison to it's competitors.

Remember...NW employees are not your enemies, we are just experienced in dealing with this gang. Do you think Delta employees are the only ones that would prefer to trust their management or give them the benefit of the doubt? We did...TWICE, and got screwed over FOUR times. Ignore their proven career history at Northwest, and trust them at your peril.

 

[MMB]

People read what they WANT to read. The answer was NO...as in I did not, and will never cross a legal strike. Odd that every one else..including Brokenwrench got it.

So then, this is a retraction to your previous post?
Maybe you should make up your mind.

********************
Brokenwrench:
Did you or did you not honor a legal picket line when AMFA struck? . . .

NXNW:
No, and don't ask any other personal questions on a public board. . .
********************

You did not honor the picket line, but you “will never cross a legal strike.â€￾
So, are you saying the strike wasn’t legal? Or that you can use an eye wash station as a drinking fountain? That’s ok, it doesn't matter. As I understand the definition, 90% of NW employees are scabs, as very few honored the AMFA picket line. Non-union Delta maintenance turned down the request to work NW A/C, but all you honorable UNION members still worked the flights and flew the routes. Now those same scabs pick on a few individuals who answered an employment add in a newspaper.
What was the definition of hypocrite?

 

[cooper43]

Cooper...please enlighten the board as to what raise FAs received after pilots did in the past 10 years.
Also, that 3% you got July 1st was not technically a "raise". It was a pay reinstatement. You took a 20% pay cut in the Fall of 2005. You've gotten back a total of 7% (4% a few months ago)...they still have 13% more to go. (I'm not complaining, mind you, I'm glad for the 7%, I'm just stating the facts.)Now, you may say "yes, but we now have profit sharing." With oil at 135 a barrel, even Mr Bastian said in his online chat, there would be no profit sharing for 2008. Again, please align pilot raises from 1998 to 2008 with FA's.
(I think you're living in the past or else repeating some mantra you heard from Debbie Delta). Thank you in advance.

Touche Luke, I admit that I made that statment based on what I had been told was historically what happened at Delta. I still believe that since the f/a's are not unionized in the past when the pilots negotiated their contracts and negotiated raises for themselves the company also usually gave the other cabin crew (f/a's) a raise as well. Now I can not give you exact circumstances just because I have only lately really started paying attention to details such as these. I will have to do some research on this and get back with you. Now your point is taken that these are new days and the old delta is a thing in the past. I can not argue with you there. Originally I was just disagreeing with NXNW's insinuation that DAL was at the bottom.

 

[cooper43]

Disclosre: I am not against unionization. I have voted in the past for unionization and will mostly likely do so the next time. DAL has always been mostly non union except for the pilots and it has worked well enough IMHO. Out pay has tipically always been at the top of the industry until banckruptcy when all of the legacy carriers have taken thier share of cuts. NXNW, you said that delta can not have the lowest f/a labor cost without being the lowest paid in the industry. I guess you are technically correct but it is not that simple. I will only get 4 weeks of paid vacation and will not get 6 weeks like you do but I was never promised that so to me it is really not an issue. Also, dal and nwa has different work rules some of which allow more options and I value that. These work rule differences may cost nwa more which makes your nwa pay more but gives you less flexability. Example: I only have 3 reserve days a month which cost dal much less because we fly more often instead of just sitting on reserve and nwa pays thier f'a's to sit on reserve. This inflates the cost of labor at nwa without being much of a benefit to f/a's (at least to me). So on paper you can say that DAL f/a's make less because our labor cost are less but it is the interpretation of the numbers that counts to me.

 

[Kev3188]

Now I can not give you exact circumstances just because I have only lately really started paying attention to details such as these. I will have to do some research on this and get back with you

Nothing wrong with a late start... Better late than never. Please encourage your co-workers to do the same.

 

[Kev3188]

I will only get 4 weeks of paid vacation and will not get 6 weeks like you do but I was never promised that so to me it is really not an issue.

Fair enough, but if you had 6 (or 7 prior to BK), and were faced with the prospect of going down to 4 it would be an issue.

Also, dal and nwa has different work rules some of which allow more options and I value that.

I realize you're speaking "F/A/ to F/A," but from the ramp side of the house, we at NWA have a lot of rules & options that are also of value to us. Some are monetary, and some are quality of life; all are near and dear to the workforce.

 

[WNrforlife]

Delta is going to be the laughing stock of the airline industry. They just financed their own takeover by a bunch of NW cronies. NW is at the bottom of the heap for customer service and just about everything else.

Sure, these new folks from NW will run Delta right into the ground, just like they did NW.


Wahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahhahahahha!

What a joke!!!

 

[North by Northwest]

So then, this is a retraction to your previous post?
Maybe you should make up your mind.

********************
Brokenwrench:
Did you or did you not honor a legal picket line when AMFA struck? . . .

NXNW:
No, and don't ask any other personal questions on a public board. . .
********************

You did not honor the picket line, but you “will never cross a legal strike.â€￾
So, are you saying the strike wasn’t legal? Or that you can use an eye wash station as a drinking fountain? That’s ok, it doesn't matter. As I understand the definition, 90% of NW employees are scabs, as very few honored the AMFA picket line. Non-union Delta maintenance turned down the request to work NW A/C, but all you honorable UNION members still worked the flights and flew the routes. Now those same scabs pick on a few individuals who answered an employment add in a newspaper.
What was the definition of hypocrite?

Let me clear up the semantics..."No (MEANS I DID NOT CROSS A STRIKE OF AMFA), and don't ask any other personal questions on a public board. All crew members were contractually re-instated if they were fired for honoring a legal strike.

I can assure you...I have ALWAYS put actions behind my words."

Which means "NO".. I DID NOT CROSS a picket line. (something you have not had to worry about demonstrating vs. all that big hypocrite bluster).

A group of employees are only as strong as the most selfish pig among them when it comes to collective confrontation, THAT is something you will learn about your new management...they are lockstep. End of story.

Now here's a rich one, "Non Union Delta turn down business and profit with out the approval of their bosses" I am sure they sought permission from them first. Give it a rest...I ain't buying. Unless of course there is a document stating this was the case....which I am sure there isn't.

We are Veterans in this business and know how the boat rocks, from top to bottom. Sans collective bargaining you ain't refusing NOTHING unless you are looking to get familiar with the bricks on the sidewalk on your way out the door.

 

[North by Northwest]

Delta is going to be the laughing stock of the airline industry. They just financed their own takeover by a bunch of NW cronies. NW is at the bottom of the heap for customer service and just about everything else.

Sure, these new folks from NW will run Delta right into the ground, just like they did NW.


Wahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahhahahahha!

What a joke!!!

Cronies is MUCH too kind of a compliment for this gang. Delta has a lot of very nice, innocent, decent people...JUST LIKE Northwest prior to their arrival. We were given a choice, be put down like a dog or stand up and fight. If this goes through, I feel for the good people who are going to be hit with profound evil corporate shock.

 

[bagboy]

NW is at the bottom of the heap for customer service and just about everything else.

Wrong. NWA is usually toward the top in most categories, on time and luggage to name a few.

 

[cooper43]

Wrong. NWA is usually toward the top in most categories, on time and luggage to name a few.

How many customer service awards do they have? Just curious.

 

[bagboy]

How many customer service awards do they have? Just curious.

Those are kind of like the trophies handed out at my kids t-ball games, everyones a winner right?

 

[groundcontrol]

Wrong. NWA is usually toward the top in most categories, on time and luggage to name a few.

Here is a 2008 airline quality rating article.

Neither Delta or NW made the grade in any of your mentioned categories. Matter of fact they seemed to get worse.

http://www.aqr.aero/aqrreports/2008aqr.pdf

 

[Come Fly with Me]

Oh, so people like you bashing non-union folks is okay, but let the opposite happen and we have no spine ?

Just typical union BULLSH_T !

I will tell you that I have enough of a spine to stand on my own two feet and not depend on other organizations, "UNIONS", to help me keep a job!

Again, tell me how many jobs were saved lately by unions ?
If a company wants to get rid of you "THEY" will get rid of you..........union or no union !

And BTW...........Delta employees make more than NW employess right now.........where's your union?

You are wrong on your assumption. We Delta(ramp) employees make more an hour, but if you add the total benefits NW is superior. Don't let Anderson tell you otherwise.

 

[RobertD]

Here is a 2008 airline quality rating article.

Neither Delta or NW made the grade in any of your mentioned categories. Matter of fact they seemed to get worse.

http://www.aqr.aero/aqrreports/2008aqr.pdf

That's some report.

I see NW pretty much beats Delta in on time, denied boarding, mis handled luggage, and customer complaints. (which isn't saying much since they both continued to decline)

Wonder if it's because NW are union and perform better?
Just something to think about.