terms of DL-DALPA tentative agreement released.
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robbedagain
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DALPA may be a good union but if what has been posted here regarding the JV deal then I would (if I were a DL pilot) would give it a No Vote based on that Every union regardless of whether or not is DALPA or ALPA or IAM or TWU etc is always going to have the ups the downs etc I find fault and I find good in the IAM as I am a member
topDawg
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FWIW sounds like it passed by the MEC (shocker) and sounds like it was mostly PMDL reps voting yes (yet another shocker)
My bets, this turd passes by ~60%. More TATL capacity gets cut and the rest of the employees profitsharing takes the same cut with a 5-6% raise like the last time. (at best)
Thanks DALPA.
My bets, this turd passes by ~60%. More TATL capacity gets cut and the rest of the employees profitsharing takes the same cut with a 5-6% raise like the last time. (at best)
Thanks DALPA.
WorldTraveler
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for someone who chides me for reading pilot chat forums you seem to do a pretty good job of parroting what they say despite the fact that the argument about block hours being so far out of imbalance is complexly inaccurate.
if you actually took the time to pull REAL AF/AZ/DL/KL schedules for both the winter and the summer, you would find the block hours are very close to 50% on an annualized basis excluding the UK which is part of the VS JV and under a separate measurement for ALPA.
no, there is no basis for massive cuts in TATL capacity because AF/KL/AZ are flying about half of the block hours now and DL is not in a position to be adding 757 and 763 aircraft which are the only types of aircraft that could reduce capacity without keeping block hours from going down.
Surely you also realize that AF and KL are both downgauging their fleets by getting rid of 744s.
maybe the TA is not the best thing since sliced bread but if you want to attack the terms of it, at least do the research to verify if what everyone else is saying is accurate or not
Kev3188
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Well someone's gotta subsidize it...topDawg said:
Kev3188
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WorldTraveler
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Some of the profit sharing is being converted to base pay. It is not hard to figure out.
DL pilots - and likely other employees - will gain a pay increase plus convert some of the PS pay which was paid only once per year except for the past year with two payouts to regular paychecks.
When fronline employees start receiving nearly 20% of their pay in profit sharing and bonuses and they have been receiving profit sharing for multiple years, the vast majority of people want that money on a regular basis.
DL is REDUCING the amount of PROFIT SHARING on a yearly basis and INCREASING BASE PAY on a regular basis.
what Cranky and notebody else is willing to admit is that DL is giving pay raises along with reductions to the profit sharing. DL is increasing pilot pay by 6% at the same time it is reducing the PROFIT SHARING threshold by a lesser amount.
and what a whole lot of people here can't or wn't admit is that DL's rate of compensation was higher than any other airline's before this TA and will continue to be.
other airlines such as AA don't even believe in profit sharing and it won't be a part of JCBAs. Even perennially profitable WN is not paying out profit sharing as high as DL employees will get even under the reduced PS levels - and DL employees are actually getting compensation increases of more than 3% per year while WN's major employee groups ALL are parked in stalled negotiations.
Your attempts at trying to tear apart what DL is doing with compensation is only a not very veiled attempt to hide that DL continues to be providing its employees faster rates of compensation than employees at any other US airline and DL employees are quickly closing the gap with WN employees who have been the industry's highest paid employees while DL employees have handedly blown past AA and UA employees.
save your hot air and get the pay raises that would actually close the gap with DL's compensation levels instead of come here to attack what DL is actually providing.
the aircraft specific part of the deal is being discussed in a separate thread so it is worth keeping those comments there other than to note that some vocal pilots want to keep arguing that DL's narrowbody orders have been for replacement, not growth even beyond the 717s which were clearly earmarked from the beginning as small RJ replacement.
DL has now ordered 140 737-900ERs and, what, 45 A321s on top of the M90s and yet some people keep arguing that it is all just replacement even though DL has not parked and doesn't plan to park anywhere close to 250 narrowbody aircraft, esp. given that the 321s and 739s are as large as the 757s in terms of seats and the pay rates under the new contract are higher than the 757s under the old contract.
The narrowbody fleet at DL is growing even if the 717s and E190s are taken out of the picture since they are most directly tied to reduced size of the DCI carriers - which is still benefitting DL employees.
DL pilots - and likely other employees - will gain a pay increase plus convert some of the PS pay which was paid only once per year except for the past year with two payouts to regular paychecks.
When fronline employees start receiving nearly 20% of their pay in profit sharing and bonuses and they have been receiving profit sharing for multiple years, the vast majority of people want that money on a regular basis.
DL is REDUCING the amount of PROFIT SHARING on a yearly basis and INCREASING BASE PAY on a regular basis.
what Cranky and notebody else is willing to admit is that DL is giving pay raises along with reductions to the profit sharing. DL is increasing pilot pay by 6% at the same time it is reducing the PROFIT SHARING threshold by a lesser amount.
and what a whole lot of people here can't or wn't admit is that DL's rate of compensation was higher than any other airline's before this TA and will continue to be.
other airlines such as AA don't even believe in profit sharing and it won't be a part of JCBAs. Even perennially profitable WN is not paying out profit sharing as high as DL employees will get even under the reduced PS levels - and DL employees are actually getting compensation increases of more than 3% per year while WN's major employee groups ALL are parked in stalled negotiations.
Your attempts at trying to tear apart what DL is doing with compensation is only a not very veiled attempt to hide that DL continues to be providing its employees faster rates of compensation than employees at any other US airline and DL employees are quickly closing the gap with WN employees who have been the industry's highest paid employees while DL employees have handedly blown past AA and UA employees.
save your hot air and get the pay raises that would actually close the gap with DL's compensation levels instead of come here to attack what DL is actually providing.
the aircraft specific part of the deal is being discussed in a separate thread so it is worth keeping those comments there other than to note that some vocal pilots want to keep arguing that DL's narrowbody orders have been for replacement, not growth even beyond the 717s which were clearly earmarked from the beginning as small RJ replacement.
DL has now ordered 140 737-900ERs and, what, 45 A321s on top of the M90s and yet some people keep arguing that it is all just replacement even though DL has not parked and doesn't plan to park anywhere close to 250 narrowbody aircraft, esp. given that the 321s and 739s are as large as the 757s in terms of seats and the pay rates under the new contract are higher than the 757s under the old contract.
The narrowbody fleet at DL is growing even if the 717s and E190s are taken out of the picture since they are most directly tied to reduced size of the DCI carriers - which is still benefitting DL employees.
eolesen
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It's Embraer 190s. Boeing bought 20 from Air Canada to sell them 737s, and DL is taking them off Boeing's hands.FrugalFlyerv2.0 said:
Apparently, it was an 8-11 vote at the MEC to send this out for vote, so this is not a slam dunk by any means.
robbedagain
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youre flat out wrong there WT on Kev PS you claim he got 33% yet he says no Gee for someone who is not active you sure seem to think you know what he gets and what he doesn't
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