Teamsters "raiding" TWU?

[AC Tynker]

Was he wearing a bag over his head?

Jenny,

All that effort put into a post as dumb as that. You really should have used better judgment, oh wait You don't have any good judgment my bad.

 

[Buck]

You two do have something in common

 

[AC Tynker]

It must all three of us then because you fit Very Well in there yourself Buck.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

WOW, what support in Tulsa for the Teamsters, Let me count 1, 2, 3.........
American Airlines Mechanics Rally For Break From TWU

The large man in white shirt and the one in Yellow look like the same guys who came to Miami.
They did not win anyone over here either. If Chris Moore ( from Intl of IBT) was there as well they are the same bunch.
When they had thier meeting they brought the IBT president from Florida local769 and he did not even know who represented the memebers who came under the RLA. He even forgot that he did not represent the UPS mechanics who work in the state of Florida. Claimed that a person was part of Local but no where did he show up on the officers of the local since I had the names and bois. They claimed that they forced UAL to build two hangers since they brought back work. Wrong the hangers are being built to support the 787's and the first opens 9/13 @ EWR the second is still in planning stage, per the VP of Technical Operations at UAL that one is going to be @ IAD. Same Ole lies and industrial union crap.

They even lied about being able to rid local and intl of officers. Untrue since all memebers of the local vote. So any airline workers will be small part of the local officers stay. Business reps are appointed not elected. THE IBT picks them. I was told by Chris Moore, the one who we see as a leader' the one who rises to the top like cream during our organizing campaign.

These guys are worse than the TWU leadership we now have at AA. Not prepaired at any level with what is going on at AA.

 

[xUT]

The large man in white shirt and the one in Yellow look like the same guys who came to Miami.
They did not win anyone over here either. If Chris Moore ( from Intl of IBT) was there as well they are the same bunch.
When they had thier meeting they brought the IBT president from Florida local769 and he did not even know who represented the memebers who came under the RLA. He even forgot that he did not represent the UPS mechanics who work in the state of Florida. Claimed that a person was part of Local but no where did he show up on the officers of the local since I had the names and bois. They claimed that they forced UAL to build two hangers since they brought back work. Wrong the hangers are being built to support the 787's and the first opens 9/13 @ EWR the second is still in planning stage, per the VP of Technical Operations at UAL that one is going to be @ IAD. Same Ole lies and industrial union crap.

They even lied about being able to rid local and intl of officers. Untrue since all memebers of the local vote. So any airline workers will be small part of the local officers stay. Business reps are appointed not elected. THE IBT picks them. I was told by Chris Moore, the one who we see as a leader' the one who rises to the top like cream during our organizing campaign.

These guys are worse than the TWU leadership we now have at AA. Not prepaired at any level with what is going on at AA.

The guy standing is Rich Petrovsky , UAL appointed BA.
The hangers being built in EWR are for the 787 while hangers at SFO remain empty.
Good Job Rich!
Ask Rich why UAL M&R are on on furlough while CAL is hiring off the street.
B) xUT

 

[Flying low]

WOW, what support in Tulsa for the Teamsters, Let me count 1, 2, 3.........
American Airlines Mechanics Rally For Break From TWU

They must have come up with some good stories because quite few few new teamsters t-shirts are being worn around the hangers.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

They must have come up with some good stories because quite few few new teamsters t-shirts are being worn around the hangers.

Free T-shirt or free meal you know the AMT's will get some. Lets just hope that the stories that the IBT told are just as funny as the ones they told here in Miami.

 

[1AA]

I can use another T shirt. XXXL if possible. The bigger the more oil it will soak up in my garage while I do an oil change on my car.

 

[BigMac]

If I get hit and by chance can't bump out..I may be driving for the Teamsters. I'll take a hat or shirt. Screw it.. the TWU blows and I'm still waiting on the AMFA card count. How many GD cards I have to sign for AMFA!!??

 

[1AA]

If I get hit and by chance can't bump out..I may be driving for the Teamsters. I'll take a hat or shirt. Screw it.. the TWU blows and I'm still waiting on the AMFA card count. How many GD cards I have to sign for AMFA!!??

Hopefully less than TWU negotiated concessionary contracts. Hopefully before the next contract. It is not in the best interest to release the numbers and give the TWU or the Teamsters anything to go on. There was a news article a week or so back where Dave was quoted as saying that we were 500 cards away from our 50% mark. In the same article Bobby Gless challenged Dave to prove it. He bashed AMFA and never said anything negative about the Teamsters. We are all waiting to rid ourselves of the TWU. The Teamsters is worse than the TWU.

 

[Bob Owens]

The guy standing is Rich Petrovsky , UAL appointed BA.
The hangers being built in EWR are for the 787 while hangers at SFO remain empty.
Good Job Rich!
Ask Rich why UAL M&R are on on furlough while CAL is hiring off the street.
B) xUT

Question; I noticed in your (or it may have been CALs) contract you have language to explore the possibility of a geographical premium, but EWR is not listed as one of the cities that would get it. Why is that?

EWR is essentailly NYCs third major airport. Its the closest airport to lower Manhattan, the Financial district , even closer than LGA and much closer to any point in Manhattan than JFK. So business wise EWR may have made more sense than reestablishing a big presence in SFO where costs are very high, probably higher than NY, but the city itseslf isnt very big compared to NYC #14 vs #1.

Ask Rich why UAL M&R are on on furlough while CAL is hiring off the street.
B) xUT

We had the same problem here when AA bought TWA, TWA had guys on the street while AA was hiring non-TWA guys off the street. They said they wanted to avoid confusion when it came to integrating seniority. I think they just wanted a bigger pool of mechanics that they could draw from for recall. having guys on recall does have some benefits to the company especially with the shortage of mechanics thats developing. Delta, AA and others may be reluctant to hire a Laid off CAL guy (figuring by the time they get done training he will leave to go back to CAL/UAL) and hiring the guy off the street also denies competitors the opportunity to hire that mechanic, CAL also gets a guy at starting rates so it lowers costs, in the end UAL may end up with both.

It will be interesting to see how many mechanics actually are laid off at AA. Dumping mechanics at the bottom of the list raises costs and will be to the advantage of AAs competitors who will be able to add experienced guys at starting rates to their workforce and lower their costs.

There are multiple factors at work as far as mechanics. Airlines are getting more involved in the recruitment of mechanics into A&P schools, a new development. It would be in our interests to inform these kids what they have to look forward to. The biggest problem the airlines are facing is the age of the average mechanic, (I was amused by the ADVIL commerial, they got it right) on the one hand because we are so old they feel like they can #### all over us and we wont leave, (their bean counters still havent figured out how this ends up costing them, they only see what they think they can save) but on the other hand because they have trashed the job there isnt much interest from the younger generation to go into the profession. With the average age of an airline mechanic well into the 50s they will likely have to replace half the workforce in the next five years. Nights, weekends and Holidays with minimal PTO and crappy pay and no real incentive to stay (no pension or retiree medical) will mean that most of those they swindle into investing in their tickets will walk away from the Airlines before the even become proficient, much like we had at AA in the late 80s. those who stay in the profession may find they may be able to do better in GA without all the hassle that working for a major Airlines brings.

 

[Anomaly]

Question; I noticed in your (or it may have been CALs) contract you have language to explore the possibility of a geographical premium, but EWR is not listed as one of the cities that would get it. Why is that?

EWR is essentailly NYCs third major airport. Its the closest airport to lower Manhattan, the Financial district , even closer than LGA and much closer to any point in Manhattan than JFK. So business wise EWR may have made more sense than reestablishing a big presence in SFO where costs are very high, probably higher than NY, but the city itseslf isnt very big compared to NYC #14 vs #1.

I spent the last couple of days deep sea fishing for albacore with no internet. It looks like you all had a very interesting weekend, but I was right here in SFO. No, I am NOT Mr Petrovsky, but I appreciate the compliment. Rich is a very decent person who has been active with the union for most of his 40 something years as a mechanic for UAL. He is probably not perfect, but does his job well. I have no problem with the performance of either of our two SFO Business Agents. But it seems that xUT, who is no longer even with UA, does. I guess in politics everyone is up for attack. Especially on this board.

Bob, according to the online CO agreement, article 15 N provides for a committee which will determine the cost of living in each of the cities in which technicians and related are based. The UA agreement has the same language and in addition calls for a company study on the highest priced US cities where UA mechanics are based. I do not see where you conclude that EWR is NOT included?

We had the same problem here when AA bought TWA, TWA had guys on the street while AA was hiring non-TWA guys off the street. They said they wanted to avoid confusion when it came to integrating seniority. I think they just wanted a bigger pool of mechanics that they could draw from for recall. having guys on recall does have some benefits to the company especially with the shortage of mechanics thats developing. Delta, AA and others may be reluctant to hire a Laid off CAL guy (figuring by the time they get done training he will leave to go back to CAL/UAL) and hiring the guy off the street also denies competitors the opportunity to hire that mechanic, CAL also gets a guy at starting rates so it lowers costs, in the end UAL may end up with both.

It will be interesting to see how many mechanics actually are laid off at AA. Dumping mechanics at the bottom of the list raises costs and will be to the advantage of AAs competitors who will be able to add experienced guys at starting rates to their workforce and lower their costs.

There are multiple factors at work as far as mechanics. Airlines are getting more involved in the recruitment of mechanics into A&P schools, a new development. It would be in our interests to inform these kids what they have to look forward to. The biggest problem the airlines are facing is the age of the average mechanic, (I was amused by the ADVIL commerial, they got it right) on the one hand because we are so old they feel like they can #### all over us and we wont leave, (their bean counters still havent figured out how this ends up costing them, they only see what they think they can save) but on the other hand because they have trashed the job there isnt much interest from the younger generation to go into the profession. With the average age of an airline mechanic well into the 50s they will likely have to replace half the workforce in the next five years. Nights, weekends and Holidays with minimal PTO and crappy pay and no real incentive to stay (no pension or retiree medical) will mean that most of those they swindle into investing in their tickets will walk away from the Airlines before the even become proficient, much like we had at AA in the late 80s. those who stay in the profession may find they may be able to do better in GA without all the hassle that working for a major Airlines brings.

You of course are entitled to your opinion, even if it is riddled with over reaching bizarre explanations. The actual reason for one airline hiring while the other still has mechanics on lay off is elementary. Even though we are classified as one airline, we are still separate in many ways including our individual contracts. We are still operating under two contracts, UA and CO, (not to mention the MCI group) and will continue to do so until we all settle on a single agreement. It is that simple.

Each of our contracts protects the seniority of that group. This will remain until we have one single seniority list and one single contract. Eventually, we will be combined using date of hire. Those furloughed mechanics will then have rights to bid any new openings in the new single group using their former seniority. As it stands today, a UA mechanic can not carry his seniority to CO and vice-a-versa. When the combination does eventually happen there will undoubtably be former UA employees on the street with more seniority than some former CO mechanics working at a station.

However, this scenario would be the same even if there was no merger. It is a simple fact that there are areas within the airline that these senior employees on the street do not want to work for a variety of reasons. The company then hires. This has been going on for decades. UA has furloughed in one city and hired in another creating the same scenario you are twisting in to a fabricated crisis.

You guys are really scarping the bottom of the barrel this week.

 

[Bob Owens]

I spent the last couple of days deep sea fishing for albacore with no internet. It looks like you all had a very interesting weekend, but I was right here in SFO. No, I am NOT Mr Petrovsky, but I appreciate the compliment. Rich is a very decent person who has been active with the union for most of his 40 something years as a mechanic for UAL. He is probably not perfect, but does his job well. I have no problem with the performance of either of our two SFO Business Agents. But it seems that xUT, who is no longer even with UA, does. I guess in politics everyone is up for attack. Especially on this board.

?????? I just asked a question, and not from you! Guess the fishing wasnt that good.

Bob, according to the online CO agreement, article 15 N provides for a committee which will determine the cost of living in each of the cities in which technicians and related are based. The UA agreement has the same language and in addition calls for a company study on the highest priced US cities where UA mechanics are based. I do not see where you conclude that EWR is NOT included?

IIRC the letter spells out which cities are included, like i said it may have been the CAL agreement.

Each of our contracts protects the seniority of that group. This will remain until we have one single seniority list and one single contract. Eventually, we will be combined using date of hire. Those furloughed mechanics will then have rights to bid any new openings in the new single group using their former seniority. As it stands today, a UA mechanic can not carry his seniority to CO and vice-a-versa. When the combination does eventually happen there will undoubtably be former UA employees on the street with more seniority than some former CO mechanics working at a station.

Arent the laid off guys IBT members who will eventually be on the combined list? Shouldnt the IBT approach the company with all their massive bargaining leverage and have them hire those guys? I mean if they can open a signed ratified agreement that should be even easier.

However, this scenario would be the same even if there was no merger. It is a simple fact that there are areas within the airline that these senior employees on the street do not want to work for a variety of reasons. The company then hires. This has been going on for decades. UA has furloughed in one city and hired in another creating the same scenario you are twisting in to a fabricated crisis.

You guys are really scarping the bottom of the barrel this week.

????

What's the average age of a mechanic at UAL? Its 55 at USAIR, and pretty close to that at AA. most guys retire at around 60. So figure half the guys at AA will be of retirement age before this contract is amendable, as headcount continues to shrink the average age will likely increase and then within a reletively short period of time many will retire. the FAA only certifies around 3000 A&Ps a year, thats for the entire aviation industry. many go into GA, corporate, helicopter and manufacturing. The industry will likely need around 8000 a year according to Boeing's projections. The airlines need to start attracting young blood but AA was too stingy, they with the help of people who are supposed to be on our side jamed a crappy deal down our throats with only one week of vacation for the first 5 years. If I were a kid out of school that alone would be enough to make me take a pass on AA. When the company realizes this they will probably get their lapdogs to cut a deal where they change the language to read for the first ten years they get two weeks, give the guys with 30 years the 6th week back and call it a victory, even though for the 25 years between 5 years and 30 will will still lag the rest of the industry by a week per year.

 

[Anomaly]

?????? I just asked a question, and not from you! Guess the fishing wasnt that good.

Did not see an address to the question, and fishing was great. The boat hauled in 51 tuna and a few other fish including a couple of salmon which are very nearly done being fished for the season.

IIRC the letter spells out which cities are included, like i said it may have been the CAL agreement.






Arent the laid off guys IBT members who will eventually be on the combined list? Shouldnt the IBT approach the company with all their massive bargaining leverage and have them hire those guys? I mean if they can open a signed ratified agreement that should be even easier.

The cities spelled out in the UA contract are cities where UA mechanics work. EWR has a good number of CO mechanics who apparently voiced their concern during the voting for their last agreement that Hawaii has a cost of living allowance and they do not. I believe several cities/stations including EWR should be entitled to the same extra pay as the Islands. When the company puts me in charge of the finances, that will be one of my first moves.

The IBT did approach the company with a request to hire furloughed employees first. The company agreed, but I hear that there are few takers if any. UA mechanics have been furloughed for quite a while and I am guessing that by now they have all found other jobs. Even if not, who would want to start over in pay doing the same thing that you did before? The company could hire the UA mechanic at his former wage to allow for the experience, but the CO agreement has language (article 15 C 4) that would essentially bump up the pay to anyone with less seniority to the same thing. In other words, if the company hires a UA mechanic and pays him at the top rate, they will have to increase the pay of all others in the classification senior to him. Since he/she would start with ONE day of class seniority, this would effectively wipe out their scaled wages and I doubt they will do that just to hire a UA mechanic.

What's the average age of a mechanic at UAL? Its 55 at USAIR, and pretty close to that at AA. most guys retire at around 60. So figure half the guys at AA will be of retirement age before this contract is amendable, as headcount continues to shrink the average age will likely increase and then within a reletively short period of time many will retire. the FAA only certifies around 3000 A&Ps a year, thats for the entire aviation industry. many go into GA, corporate, helicopter and manufacturing. The industry will likely need around 8000 a year according to Boeing's projections. The airlines need to start attracting young blood but AA was too stingy, they with the help of people who are supposed to be on our side jamed a crappy deal down our throats with only one week of vacation for the first 5 years. If I were a kid out of school that alone would be enough to make me take a pass on AA. When the company realizes this they will probably get their lapdogs to cut a deal where they change the language to read for the first ten years they get two weeks, give the guys with 30 years the 6th week back and call it a victory, even though for the 25 years between 5 years and 30 will will still lag the rest of the industry by a week per year.

Average age is about the same for both UA and CO. Mid fifties. This still has no bearing on why CO continues to hire off the street. I agree with you on the changes the airlines need to make. If they can not do this, you are correct in that they will find a shortage of mechanics. If this happens, they will have to turn to vendors who can for the most part hire anyone. You do not need a license to work at a vendor. This is our Achilles heel. I do not believe the airlines really want to attract young blood.

 

[xUT]

I spent the last couple of days deep sea fishing for albacore with no internet. It looks like you all had a very interesting weekend, but I was right here in SFO. No, I am NOT Mr Petrovsky, but I appreciate the compliment. Rich is a very decent person who has been active with the union for most of his 40 something years as a mechanic for UAL. He is probably not perfect, but does his job well. I have no problem with the performance of either of our two SFO Business Agents. But it seems that xUT, who is no longer even with UA, does. I guess in politics everyone is up for attack. Especially on this board.

Actually, I like Rich and most of the old IAM guard that are now IBT. When they were IAM they did a pretty good job of representing us. No doubt they are doing the same under the IBT.

What they did or didn't do under AMFA disappointed me. They did everything they could to undermine AMFA and not participate. They had the respect of many of us and if they tried for any AMFA position, I am sure they would have been voted in.

I understand their feelings and they took it as a personal attack as if they failed. They didn't fail, the IAM failed.

IIRC, NWA had a similar experience with their IAM officers. Some of the first to cross the picket line were the ex-IAM local president and chairman.

I also have no doubt that if the AA M&R vote in AMFA that they will experience the same thing from the TWU officers and probably reinstate the amfanuts.com web blog.

I didn't appreciate the BS from the IBT during the UA IBT drive.
The same BS they are spouting on their AA drive.

Yes, I am no longer on UA property and not affiliated with AMFA.
Yet you are not at AA but promote the IBT here.
What is your agenda?

Kick me in the balls if I am wrong. I can take it!
Take Care,
B) xUT