Teamster Organizer caught forging Authorization Cards
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You are correct. This is all a charade so he can show that he is looking into it (investigating). Hoffa won't respond to his request, especially in writing. There have been Federal Laws broken here. The members cannot count on there own officers of the TWU, some mechanics need to get together and file a complaint with the NMB--DO NOT wait for the TWU to do anything, as they will not. Let's not forget that the TWU asked the teamsters to come in and help deflect the AMFA drive from AA. When the TWU and teamsters saw the overwhelming cards that AMFA has collected, they got extremely worried and the end results is forgery of cards being collected. Now the teamsters are trying to go full bore and actually run a card drive. Backstabbing (Jim Little's words) the TWU. Acollective group of mechanics need to flood the NMB and file whatever is needed so the NMB can do their own investigation. We all know that with the teamsters and/or the TWU doing the investigation it will all get swept under the carpet. With the NMB doing it, it will be made public and if evidence is found to be accurate there will be punishments handed out that may very well include decertification. C'mon guys push this thing over to the NMB, now...
MCI transplant
Veteran
- Jun 4, 2003
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But in the real world of politics, and big money$$$$, what is right and wrong, has nothing to do with it!!!!
Never say never. Mechanics need to get involved and file with the NMB. Only the NMB can apply some sort of punishment for Federal Laws being broken. Fraudulent and forgery of documents are a serious violation and I am positive the NMB will react upon a filed complaint, but, someone needs to file to get it rolling now. There could be even a larger punishment handed down other than just the fact that they will have to start all over, they could be forced to be removed from having a card drive at all at AA, as well as being reframed from any card drive in any industry for a set time period, say for example; the teamsters may get restricted from holding any card drives anywhere for a period of 1,2, or 3 years. You never know. The NMB is aware of other things the teamsters have done thru-out the years, and they won't take this lightly, FILE A COMPLAINT...
The point is there is past history at AA with fraudulent cards being sent in and collected by the TWU. Now the teamsters are doing the same thing. With all thr records the AMFA committee has saved, these too should be sent in with the complaint against the teamsters to show the NMB what is taking place at AA. It will only help the NMB to pursue the illeagal activity going on between both the TWU (past card drives) and currently the teamsters. It might also be possible to bring to light how the TWU and teamsters are working together (or at least started in the begining to work together) to help keep AMFA out at AA. I am very positive the NMB would be interested, but they have to be notified, in writing that these activities are possibly going on.
An Example is the AMFA National officers election at SWA. If AMFA National officers (2 of them not running for the re-elections) did not do something about the illeagal activities during the re-election, then the NMB would have stepped in and AMFA National could have been givin serious fines and other punishments that included some serious consequences. Move this forward gentlemen, don't just shrug it off. The industrial unions need to accountable for their illeagal activities, otherwise they will just continue doing so. Let's stop them now so they won't do it any more, help stop this from happening to future brothers and sisters thru-out the industry. File a complaint now...
Nothing surprises me, but Don may have spread the rumor on Woodward to create controversy. If the NMB should look into this it may lead to better scrutinizing of all cards signed no matter who submits. The TWU knows they are in trouble and the Teamsters do not have enough cards to file. So maybe the two unions are working together to kill the AMFA drive. What do the Teamsters or the TWU have to lose at this point? It is 4th and long for the TWU and Teamsters.
I would agree. The accusation is just a means to give the NMB an excuse to throw out cards from all challengers. No doubt the accusation will eventually be extended to other challengers. The fact is all the cards do is get a vote, the only determination thats made is whether or not to have an election. Like I've said all along, let the members vote, its pretty bad when the sole strategy to keep the members isn't to fix what the members think is wrong with the union (such as appointed ATD officials having control over the contracts, and getting rid of the appointed people who lead the membership on a path that resulted in losing 2/3rds of the headcount in addition to being the worst paid in the industry and forcing a new Local on half M&R), but to plot and scheme up ways to deny them a vote. Pathetic, this is whats destroying the labor movement in this country, more than the Republican Party, more than foreign Competition, more than Right To Work, more than raids. Labor unions that openly try and prevent their members from choosing who represents them to management. If the members cant choose that then why do they need unions? In our case we pay Union dues to get the worst deal in the industry, worse than what non-union gets. Defending that by saying we have more mechanics per airplane is BS, nobody made a job choice by saying they wanted to end up with a job where the company had the most employees but offered the worst pay, if that was the case we all would have ended up a Walmart and not be paying union dues.
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
CIO
Are you saying that the cards that were signed by others (organizer) and not by the originators?
We missed the number to get a election due to the numbers that were inflated by he TWU and the company.
If we had the number of required cards they would of been verified by the NMB as good, the signatures as well as the elligibility of each person is verified by the nmb before a ballot is sent. That will happen this time around as well. If the TWU or the company inflate the numbers again they will be subject ti fines by the NMB for tampering.
We have a dat base which has been maintained ever since then with all the elligible employees.
What ever numbers are thrown arround by the membership during the card drives is speculation. The actual numbers are not know by all, it has been kept closely gaurded by the Organizing committee of AMFA supporters here at AA. It was then and is NOW.
ANY other deceptions you want to add?
AMFA at AA in 2013
eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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I have no doubt that cards have been forged in every card drive known to the NMB.
If the Company had actually submitted cards for people out of classification in 2003, those of you drawing a comparison have a point. But they had no reason to do so, since that would have been a showing of interest.
Deciding the class and craft? The company and the union have the right to propose what makes up the class, but they don't ultimately get to decide the affected population. That's the NMB's role.
It's been ten years --- how close was the actual showing of interest for AMFA?
Assuming the population was only those covered by the current M&R contract, would there have been enough cards to trigger an election? Or would you have fallen short, just as AMP did?
I really don't expect to hear an answer on either one, since it might show that the often-used argument that the vote was rigged to be a red herring.
And before anyone labels me as a TWU apologist, keep in mind I was the one willing to moderate a debate over at PlaneBusiness.com between AMFA and the TWU.
I was in favor of a vote being held then, with the now-fizzled AMP drive, and am looking forward to a vote being held once a single-carrier determination is made should the merger go forward.
If the Company had actually submitted cards for people out of classification in 2003, those of you drawing a comparison have a point. But they had no reason to do so, since that would have been a showing of interest.
Deciding the class and craft? The company and the union have the right to propose what makes up the class, but they don't ultimately get to decide the affected population. That's the NMB's role.
It's been ten years --- how close was the actual showing of interest for AMFA?
Assuming the population was only those covered by the current M&R contract, would there have been enough cards to trigger an election? Or would you have fallen short, just as AMP did?
I really don't expect to hear an answer on either one, since it might show that the often-used argument that the vote was rigged to be a red herring.
And before anyone labels me as a TWU apologist, keep in mind I was the one willing to moderate a debate over at PlaneBusiness.com between AMFA and the TWU.
I was in favor of a vote being held then, with the now-fizzled AMP drive, and am looking forward to a vote being held once a single-carrier determination is made should the merger go forward.
richardhead
Member
- Aug 3, 2012
- 48
- 18
Wouldn't suprise me any. Guy is a scumbag.
After reading Jim Little's letter it is kind of lame for a International president.
If wrong doing was done and you have evidence of it then file a complaint to the NMB or DOL. The Teamsters are trying to take your membership by forging names. That is serious enough. This may be a big game the two unions are playing to draw AMFA into the argument. On the up side this should show the Teamsters supporters how far the Teamsters will go to get our dues money. Lie, cheat, deceit, fabricate and whatever else they feel necessary to win an election.
With this alone we should all stay far away from the Teamsters and let us get rid of the TWU by signing a AMFA card once and for all.
I hope the USAir guys are paying attention to all this because the Teamsters are raiding them as well. I wonder how much crap they are shoveling over at USAir.
If wrong doing was done and you have evidence of it then file a complaint to the NMB or DOL. The Teamsters are trying to take your membership by forging names. That is serious enough. This may be a big game the two unions are playing to draw AMFA into the argument. On the up side this should show the Teamsters supporters how far the Teamsters will go to get our dues money. Lie, cheat, deceit, fabricate and whatever else they feel necessary to win an election.
With this alone we should all stay far away from the Teamsters and let us get rid of the TWU by signing a AMFA card once and for all.
I hope the USAir guys are paying attention to all this because the Teamsters are raiding them as well. I wonder how much crap they are shoveling over at USAir.
La Li Lu Le Lo
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- May 29, 2010
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It is too bad about AMP. I honestly thought they had a lot of potential for the employees of American Airlines. In my opinion an American Airlines only employee UNION would be better than a class and craft UNION. I feel the more facets of a business you can exert pressure on the more leverage you have for negotiations.
I understand (correct me if I am wrong please) the ultimate goal of AMFA is to have a national craft UNION. The problem with that is the larger an entity gets the more prone to corruption it is.
I will give you an example of an issue I see with this. I remember a post on these forums where someone claimed TWU replaced American Airlines employees with lesser paid TWU members from another company. What is to stop AMFA from cutting deals with companies and replacing the current work force with cheaper AMFA members? Do you really want to be at the mercy of another nationalized multi carrier UNION?
I wish the employees of American Airlines would take another look at AMP. With multiple UNIONS post merger this would be a good time to at least consider it.
I understand (correct me if I am wrong please) the ultimate goal of AMFA is to have a national craft UNION. The problem with that is the larger an entity gets the more prone to corruption it is.
I will give you an example of an issue I see with this. I remember a post on these forums where someone claimed TWU replaced American Airlines employees with lesser paid TWU members from another company. What is to stop AMFA from cutting deals with companies and replacing the current work force with cheaper AMFA members? Do you really want to be at the mercy of another nationalized multi carrier UNION?
I wish the employees of American Airlines would take another look at AMP. With multiple UNIONS post merger this would be a good time to at least consider it.
scorpion 2
Veteran
- May 11, 2012
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If the issue of valid/invalid cards didnt come up for the last AMFA drive because of not having enough cards, than why is it coming up now for the teamsters when they havnt even filed yet? The
answer is real simple. Little didnt get stabbed in the back. There never was a serious threat from the teamsters because there never was going to be a filing. Having tainted cards gets both the twu and the teamsters off the hook. The only people that got hurt on this deal were the organizers who were truly pushing for the teamsters. As for scrutiny of cards I can asure you that all AMFA organizers know the seriousness of forging cards and that will not be an issue!
If your so certain that AMFA isnt a threat then why do you check out their burger burns on Mingo everytime they have one?
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #30
The Amfa/Amp drives are pretty much history at AA, Their track record and weak constitution pretty much sums it up. The Teamsters, when the whole truth comes out will pretty much follow the same path.
Why not look at directing your individual efforts into something constructive, and go to the meetings and be proactive, since "We are the Union," we can make a difference, just remember, the majority of the membership is the ultimate decision makers! Not just the few members on this board.
In Solidarity,
CIO
Why not look at directing your individual efforts into something constructive, and go to the meetings and be proactive, since "We are the Union," we can make a difference, just remember, the majority of the membership is the ultimate decision makers! Not just the few members on this board.
In Solidarity,
CIO
