SWA now getting involved with slot (s) possibilities

[Kev3188]

Kev,
I grasp the concept quite well.

Based on your writings over the last few weeks, I doubt that.
 

The question is why so many people here can't stand having facts pointed out to the on every subject from the definition of pension to airline compensation and benefit policies to market share and network related issues.

...Or maybe they just object the being fire hosed by the messenger...

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm sorry but if someone is factually wrong and repeatedly keeps arguing that they aren't, such as using terms like pension in ways that are not supported by even the US Dept of Labor, do you think I or anyone else should just sit down and shut up?

Would you like to count the number of posts by others that were made saying that DL would not be allowed to bid on slots or gates that are divested as part of this divestiture procedure?
Go ahead and count Sharon's post too.

Now count the number of times that I responded that DL would be challenging the process, intended to be able to bid for assets etc.

Add in the number of posts that were in agreement with my positions.

Now tell us the ratio between the two, Kevin.

Now tell me how what I have posted is excessive in comparison to the volume of posts other people made.

Specific to this topic, WN employees (or those who have identified themselves as such) repeatedly made statements and posted articles claiming that DL would not end up with gates at DAL.

If you think those statements will not be challenged, then you and they don't have a clue about what it takes to survive in a world of competitive ideas.

And that is why you and others want to run and hide and berate others, just as AA/US have done in this settlement agreement with the DOJ.


The simple fact once again is that you and others have had a field day parading your anti-DL BS for years while trashing anyone that points to the reality of what exists based on facts.

This forum will remain a place for the exchange of ideas divergent from yours and those you chose to line up with.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Too bad that WN's countdown clock for the WA just suffered a nuclear meltdown.
 

I just hope that WN's WA countdown clock nuclear meltdown will not be as devastating as yours was when you learned about the terms of the AA/US - DOJ Settlement ... ... ... 'cause dude, since then you've really become unhinged, your diatribes are full metal jacket.

 

[WNMECH]

Specific to this topic, WN employees (or those who have identified themselves as such) repeatedly made statements and posted articles claiming that DL would not end up with gates at DAL.



The simple fact once again is that you and others have had a field day parading your anti-DL BS for years while trashing anyone that points to the reality of what exists based on facts.

I haven't made those claims.

Now how about some facts to back up your claims about the compromise that lifted the wright amendment restrictions.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I just hope that WN's WA countdown clock nuclear meltdown will not be as devastating as yours was when you learned about the terms of the AA/US - DOJ Settlement ... ... ... 'cause dude, since then you've really become unhinged, your diatribes are full metal jacket.

either you haven't really grasped it or you are trying to stir the pot, but DL has made it clear that it intends to remain at Love Field and says that it URGES the DOJ to ensure that DL can participate in the divestment bidding process.

DL is challenging the process and the legality of what the DOJ and AA/US execs said, particularly because they didn't put it in writing.

And Kev wonders why I have to repeat things over and over.

I haven't made those claims.

Now how about some facts tack up your claims about the compromise that lifted the wright amendment restrictions.

I didn't say you did.

Reread thru the post, what was posted and the usernames of the people who posted that DL would not be given an opportunity to participate in or would not be successful in the bidding process and let me know both the legal basis for that kind of activity as well as a defense in the objectivity and justice in the process.

 

[700UW]

A 401k is not protected by the PBGC< its not a pension, its a retirement savings plan that uses your own pre-tax earnings.
 
A Defined Benefit Plan is protected by the PBGC and doesnt come out of your pre-tax earnings.

 

[WorldTraveler]

we get that but even by the DOL's terminology, the word "pension" does include defined contribution plans as well as defined contribution and other types of retirement benefits.

And it also doesn't change that there are carriers who do have frozen DB plans that US employees do not have. And other carriers do have DC plans which do very much include employer contributions.

You have repeatedly said things counter to both of those realities.

Would you like to acknowledge that your definitions are limited and not embraced by the US government for starters and a whole of other entities as well.

Tell me how this related to WN and the WA, BTW.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

The simple reason is that I provide insight and am able to shine a lot of light on subjects about which others just have opinions which are not defensible with any kind of facts.

 
Are you sure about that?  Some self-reflection might do you good.

 

[WNMECH]

I didn't say you did.

Reread thru the post, what was posted and the usernames of the people who posted that DL would not be given an opportunity to participate in or would not be successful in the bidding process and let me know both the legal basis for that kind of activity as well as a defense in the objectivity and justice in the process.

I have only had objection with your grasp of the compromise that lifted the Wright amendment.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm sorry but if someone is factually wrong and repeatedly keeps arguing that they aren't, such as using terms like pension in ways that are not supported by even the US Dept of Labor, do you think I or anyone else should just sit down and shut up?

I don't believe that is what's being said at all...

 

Now tell me how what I have posted is excessive in comparison to the volume of posts other people made.

By word count?


 

we get that but even by the DOL's terminology,

I'm not sure you do.

Oh, I'm sure you "get" that the DOL's terminology may include both- and that's fine. But in your quest to dig at 700, what you aren't "getting" is that for discussion purposes most people will define a pension as a DB, and a 401k separately as a DC.

...and this is a discussion board.

Know your audience, man. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

so it is ok to use incorrect terminology, Kev.

And it also doesn't change that he has specifically said that DC plans are not pensions when that is exactly how the DOL characterizes them. That isn't just an issue of the use of terminology.

And WNMech,
again, tell me where the legal challenge was by someone outside of the signatory parties to the Wright Amendment to validate its legality?

And the bigger issue here is not the Wright Amendement per se but the fact that the settlement agreement excludes the ability for any carrier to participate in the bidding process for assets.

No one has yet to be able to say what the legal basis is for excluding one or more carrier in an asset allocation process or the DOJ's basis for trying to "balance" the industry between so-called low fare carriers and legacy/network carriers.

Such a distinction is even more inappropriate and legally indefensible because WN already is the dominant carrier at DAL and Delta Air Lines has only 11% of the passenger boardings at DCA. The DOJ's statemen that legacy carriers are the problem and their attempts to cut legacy carriers out of the process are both illegal.

DL is challenging that assertion.

Given the significantly wrong legal bases that have been used to create the settlement, the chances are real high that DL will bid and gain access to the assets.

That obviously means that WN will not likely gain as many assets as it might have thought and also will be forced to look at DL jets - perhaps even the 717s - across the tarmac at DAL.

 

[Kev3188]

so it is ok to use incorrect terminology, Kev.

Nope.

What is okay is to craft your ideas in ways that people can relate to.

Again, know your audience...

 

[WorldTraveler]

again you can't grasp that 700 has repeatedly denied that the term pension includes defined contribution plans.

We're not talking about using specific language in a general context, Kevin.

We're talking about misuse of the language and incorrect facts.

BTW, we are talking in this thread about WN and the gate and slot divestitures.

I have explained that DL is challenging the legal basis for limiting assets to one group of carriers over another.

What legal basis would you like to propose for either side of the discussion?

 

[Kev3188]

We're not talking about using specific language in a general context, Kevin.

It's exactly what we're talking about.

Know your audience.

 

[700UW]

I never said that about DCP, US had a DCP and it was not a 401k.
 
A 401k is a retirement savings account, not a pension, if it was a pension it would be backed by the PBGC, and its not, plain and simple and thats the facts.
 
A DCP gives you say like 3% of your earnings into an account, a 401k, uses YOUR OWN MONEY pre-tax from your paycheck, some companies match, some dont, but its not a pension plan, if it goes belly up or has losses you dont get that money from the PBGC, your are out of luck.
 
Ask members on here who had stock from the airline they worked for in there 401ks and what happened to the stock and its value when the stock was terminated in chapter 11.  I will give you a hint, they wont be getting a check from the PBGC to make up for that.
 
http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2013/10/25/work-until-you-die-more-middle-class-americans-say-they-can-never-retire/

 

Only 24% said they are confident in the stock market as a place to invest their money. A whopping 45% say the stock market wouldn’t benefit them.
 
Those between age 25 and 29 are the most apprehensive about stocks with 58% of them saying they’d rather put $5,000 in a savings account or CD than in the stock market.
 
“There is a striking amount of fear about the stock market among all investors.  The middle class just isn’t making the link between being invested and the potential growth of their savings, but on top of this fear is apathy – there is no interest in learning more about investing,” Nordquist says.