SW/Airtran Seniority

[metopower]

I can't remember what happened to the Reno pilots, but TWA did NOT get stapled. Yes most did, but definitely not all. Was it fair? I guess that depends on who you ask. Those TWA pilots close to retirement were treated more than fair. A lot of AA pilots didn't like the agreement as well, so I guess since nobody was happy, it was a success.

Better ask a furloughed TWA guy about that staple comment.
I'm sure you are right on both counts. The TWA guys retired under the TWA contract and never had to deal with the seniority problem .So you can say they were happy. The AMR guys were not happy because of the LCC agreement that gave the TWA767 Capt. in STL seniority only in STL to keep there seats.They were mad because they believed those were THEIR jobs.Otherwise AMR guys had no compaints except for those 757"s with Pratts.....but they got rid of those.

 

[num1bearsfan]

I'm just curious...What happened to the assets and employees of ATA? Was that a merger of sorts or a liquidation of ATA? I chatted with a former ATA employee and was told that SWA slowly took over the gates and added flights on SW jets and then started laying off all the ATA employees. I noticed Southwest is starting separate service in Atlanta in a few months.

If an ATA employee actually told you that, it was a complete fabrication. Southwest had only acquired the assets of ATA after it had already gone bankrupt and ceased operations. At no point was Southwest Airlines ever governing the staff of ATA.

 

[IORFA]

Better ask a furloughed TWA guy about that staple comment.
I'm sure you are right on both counts. The TWA guys retired under the TWA contract and never had to deal with the seniority problem .So you can say they were happy. The AMR guys were not happy because of the LCC agreement that gave the TWA767 Capt. in STL seniority only in STL to keep there seats.They were mad because they believed those were THEIR jobs.Otherwise AMR guys had no compaints except for those 757"s with Pratts.....but they got rid of those.

I guess I could ask the AA furloughed pilot questions also. Fact is that the 400-500 most senior TWA pilots were given very favorable seniority, the rest were stapled. For the most part the senior TWA guys didn't see many things change, except their paychecks. They might have had to move their domicile to STL, but kept their 767/757 flying and were doing ORD-HNL for a long time among other things. The others kept the S-80 in STL as well. To this day, the STL pilot base is WAY bigger than it needs to be because of what the APA negotiated on their behalf. It still is that way today and is tied into the sizes of the ORD and DFW bases. So those being recalled get to go back to STL as well. Also, anyone who retired after 1-1-2002 retired on the AA contract. For whatever that means.

 

[Kev3188]

It still is that way today and is tied into the sizes of the ORD and DFW bases.

How is it tied into the size of the other two bases?

 

[IORFA]

STL has to have a certain defined percentage of pilots compared to ORD and DFW. Hence, STL has WAY more pilots than flying. Some trips used to DHD out of STL, some trips used to DHD into STL and the very rare trip DHD both ways into/out of STL. When they did ORD-HNL, they DHD both ways. Simply put, there are more pilots than trips in STL. Another reason that when they leave STL, they are usually gone for up to 4 days on the 80. For a comparison, STL F/A's are down to under 200 now.

 

[metopower]

STL has to have a certain defined percentage of pilots compared to ORD and DFW. Hence, STL has WAY more pilots than flying. Some trips used to DHD out of STL, some trips used to DHD into STL and the very rare trip DHD both ways into/out of STL. When they did ORD-HNL, they DHD both ways. Simply put, there are more pilots than trips in STL. Another reason that when they leave STL, they are usually gone for up to 4 days on the 80. For a comparison, STL F/A's are down to under 200 now.

Ever wonder how that happened. Do you think AMR created this so the TWA people would have those trips. Not a chance. It is because when AMR relegated the TWA people to STL the business plan was to keep STL as a hub and therefore TWA people would have adequate flying. Well the economy tanked the hub was dismantled and because of the LCC agreements they (AMR) had to honor the contract and provide the flying. However AMR could furlough and they did . Stapled TWA went first then the remaining where AMR .Thus the ever shrinking STL base.Wonder how many f/o's are TWA ? Not many they are AMR .Same with F/A's. But you knew that.

 

[xUT]

WOW is all I can say. Unionism is dead and the murderers are Union members. You guys eat the young. You side with the company to enforce your agenda.

My way or the highway. If you don’t like our first offer, we’ll give you one that’s worse.

Same as what NWA did to the AMFA M&R and you boys follow along like lemmings to protect what?

Your seniority?

Sad, AMFA was supposed to be seniority portable, which was one of the main selling points. Guess seniority is not an issue as long as it’s not yours!

I (apparently) wasted a lot of time/effort/money in support of unionism and you children have made me regurgitate in your actions and regret my involvement.

AMFA – Knowledge – Skill – Integrity

Without one the circle will fail. How about some Integrity here? Where is it? Did I miss that?
All I have seen is threats from the company parroted by AMFA.

You SW AMFA boys suck. And if you ‘ever’ go on strike, look for me crossing your picket line.

B) xUT

 

[grmach1]

WOW is all I can say. Unionism is dead and the murderers are Union members. You guys eat the young. You side with the company to enforce your agenda.

My way or the highway. If you don’t like our first offer, we’ll give you one that’s worse.

Same as what NWA did to the AMFA M&R and you boys follow along like lemmings to protect what?

Your seniority?

Sad, AMFA was supposed to be seniority portable, which was one of the main selling points. Guess seniority is not an issue as long as it’s not yours!

I (apparently) wasted a lot of time/effort/money in support of unionism and you children have made me regurgitate in your actions and regret my involvement.

AMFA – Knowledge – Skill – Integrity

Without one the circle will fail. How about some Integrity here? Where is it? Did I miss that?
All I have seen is threats from the company parroted by AMFA.

You SW AMFA boys suck. And if you ‘ever’ go on strike, look for me crossing your picket line.

B) xUT

I'm SKEEEEERT!

 

[Kev3188]

TRUTH

 

[num1bearsfan]

WOW is all I can say. Unionism is dead and the murderers are Union members. You guys eat the young. You side with the company to enforce your agenda.

My way or the highway. If you don’t like our first offer, we’ll give you one that’s worse.

Same as what NWA did to the AMFA M&R and you boys follow along like lemmings to protect what?

Your seniority?

Sad, AMFA was supposed to be seniority portable, which was one of the main selling points. Guess seniority is not an issue as long as it’s not yours!

I (apparently) wasted a lot of time/effort/money in support of unionism and you children have made me regurgitate in your actions and regret my involvement.

AMFA – Knowledge – Skill – Integrity

Without one the circle will fail. How about some Integrity here? Where is it? Did I miss that?
All I have seen is threats from the company parroted by AMFA.

You SW AMFA boys suck. And if you ‘ever’ go on strike, look for me crossing your picket line.

B) xUT

It was more like the company siding with the union.. It's in the company's best interest that it's incumbent employees remain happy. Not to rain down fortunes upon PROSPECTIVE employees at the expense of incumbents. We're all already taking a big bite of you know what as it is and we're all for the most part willing to tolerate it. But we're not going to eat the whole plate while you guys live a fairy tale.

Sorry that your groups came into the process like a bunch of hardened AA employees, and didn't do research enough to realize SWA holds ALL of the cards in this process and could simply opt to leave you all on the curb. It really was pretty stupid.

Ack-Quiz-Ish-Inn

MB dictates how SLI should be handled if there IS an integration, not that there must be one.. Minor oversight huh?

But it's all good right? You're back to how it was before any buy out was announced, an AirTran employee for the foreseeable future. What, that's no good anymore? I thought you guys rocked..

 

[IORFA]

Ever wonder how that happened. Do you think AMR created this so the TWA people would have those trips. Not a chance. It is because when AMR relegated the TWA people to STL the business plan was to keep STL as a hub and therefore TWA people would have adequate flying. Well the economy tanked the hub was dismantled and because of the LCC agreements they (AMR) had to honor the contract and provide the flying. However AMR could furlough and they did . Stapled TWA went first then the remaining where AMR .Thus the ever shrinking STL base.Wonder how many f/o's are TWA ? Not many they are AMR .Same with F/A's. But you knew that.

LCC? Do you mean LLC? Anyway, it has nothing to do with TWA LLC or TW ALPA. This agreement is still enforce, because it is in the APA contract as a provision that AA and APA agreed to in the seniority integration agreement. But maybe you also knew that and just forgot. Just for memories, TWA had 2 official bases and AA closed one. The smaller of the 2, NY. When everyone was based in STL, they also received more flying out of the base. I don't know for sure, but I would venture a guess that AA has twice as many pilots in STL than F/A's. Maybe more. On to the F/O's you are talking about, TW pilots are all over the system. They chose to do this when they are recalled if they don't live in STL. There are many of them in LGA as well as other bases. I will venture another guess and say very few if any are on the west coast. Those bases are already occupied by the Air Cal and Reno pilots let alone senior AA guys/gals. You keep mentioning the ever shrinking base at STL. Yes for F/A's, NO for the pilots. As of today, the STL pilot base can NOT go below a certain percentage, and that percentage is tied into the size of the pilot bases in ORD and DFW. If AA sends all the SFO pliots to the place they have been sending all the F/A's lately, they will end up in DFW. Which, when all is said and done, might force the STL base to grow by a few pilots. Never know.

 

[xUT]

FYI, I don’t work for any airline and haven’t for the last 3 years. Retired from United.
Ergo the “xUT” handle, or did you miss that?

I supported the EAL strike and walked the picket line. I was a supporter of AMFA at United and supported the NWA strike. AMFA Representative and Unionist.

It was more like the company siding with the union.. It's in the company's best interest that it's incumbent employees remain happy. Not to rain down fortunes upon PROSPECTIVE employees at the expense of incumbents.

Nope, its collusion with the company to disadvantage AT (your fellow) AMT’s to your benefit. SW AMFA has control over negotiations but is more than willing to side with the company to get what you want. My way or the highway negotiations is not negotiations but black mail and intimidation. You illicit fear tactics that are from the Lorenzo play book. You boys are no better than the corporations destroying Unions.

We're all already taking a big bite of you know what as it is and we're all for the most part willing to tolerate it. But we're not going to eat the whole plate while you guys live a fairy tale.

How? What are you losing?

Sorry that your groups came into the process like a bunch of hardened AA employees, and didn't do research enough to realize SWA holds ALL of the cards in this process and could simply opt to leave you all on the curb. It really was pretty stupid.

No, SW AMFA holds the cards. If “YOU” can not negotiate an agreement with AT AMT’s SW will do what they do with the approval and bequest of SW AMFA.

Ack-Quiz-Ish-Inn

MB dictates how SLI should be handled if there IS an integration, not that there must be one.. Minor oversight huh?

AMFA could push for integration, if you choose to. Let’s see your mettle.

B) xUT

 

[xUT]

I'm SKEEEEERT!

IMHO,

The word you are looking for is 'ASHAMED'!

B) xUT

 

[SharoninSAT]

IMHO,

The word you are looking for is 'ASHAMED'!

B) xUT

I agree! What happened to the SW culture?

 

[Kev3188]

I hope the attitudes shown on here are not representative of the whole. You guys sound like the polar opposite of what labor solidarity should be. But you got yours, right?

Enjoy your circular firing squad.