Survey shows Delta lags behind on "brand respect"

[700UW]

Funny at US the FAs and Mechanic and Related just got raises, only one cutting pay was AA in chapter 11, every other unionized airline gets their contractual raises.

 

[eolesen]

(Deleted by moderator), you obviously never worked in marketing or PR. Ask any CMO, and they're going to give you what I've provided.

Yes, there are really are people who still associate DL with stuff like wine in a can, hoop skirts, and everyone connecting in ATL.

My opinion has nothing to do with any other airline or company -- that's their image to some people, and it takes DECADES for those images to be eradicated.

Heck, there are people who still won't buy Tylenol after 35 years... They should have changed names back then. They didn't.

It's why DL tore down ThirdWorldPort. It had negative connotations to anyone who'd flown out of the place. Even if it were totally remodeled, you'd still have people looking for the family of rats who'd been living near Gate 12 since Kennedy was a president and not the name of the airport...

I've flown DL in the past two years, and it was entirely forgettable.

No different from the service received on any other US airline with the exception of Alaska.

Look at how many people still call US by the name USAir. It was a negative brand, and it's why Wolf changed their name to US Airways. It didn't work, and now Parker to change it again.

Continental was so saddled by the baggage of the early 1990's on their brand that they had to take on the United name, which despite their declining service, still had a stronger brand. Same thing with America West and US Airways.


You can try to make this all about AA, but it's not. That's just a typical "squirrel" response from you to try and deflect.

 

[WorldTraveler]

YOU STILL DON'T GET IT.

Whether any of those things are true or not from your perspective as an industry insider has NOTHING to do with the survey that was published and with the entire concept of branding - which for a company is profit motivated.

The article that was cited is about a difference between brand reputation and brand awareness. You have decided to insert your own biases in the discussion which have NOTHING to do with what the survey studied. The attributes which you choose to attach to any brand is YOUR PERCEPTION and nothing more.

If you want to frame what you have to say in that regard, that is fine - but I am not going to allow you or anyone else to argue that DL's brand is X based on your untested perceptions that have nothing to do with what the survey said.

If the survey or any other of the branding characteristics which you have stated here are anything more than your own personal biases, then you should have no problem finding them.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Funny at US the FAs and Mechanic and Related just got raises, only one cutting pay was AA in chapter 11, every other unionized airline gets their contractual raises.

true dat.... and DL is giving out pay raises to its NON-UNION employees without a contract. AGAIN.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

And it all still misses the whole basis of the report that was the focus of the study which was cited by the OP. The study showed that DL has a significant disconnect between DL’s reputation and its brand awareness.

English is my second language, but I think what you are saying above and what eolesen said are more-or-less the same thing: DL reputation is that everyone must connect in ATL, and people everywhere are aware of it ... ... ...
This doesn't convey really anything bad about DLs operation (profitable) or network (global).

 

[eolesen]

You have decided to insert your own biases in the discussion which have NOTHING to do with what the survey studied. The attributes which you choose to attach to any brand is YOUR PERCEPTION and nothing more.

If you want to frame what you have to say in that regard, that is fine - but I am not going to allow you or anyone else to argue that DL's brand is X based on your untested perceptions that have nothing to do with what the survey said.

If the survey or any other of the branding characteristics which you have stated here are anything more than your own personal biases, then you should have no problem finding them.

I've inserted MY biases?

That's so rich, coming from an unabashed cheerleader and foamer over your former employer.

The earlier comments about you portraying yourself as an expert on everything were spot on.

Laughably, you do so sitting in your home office, having been entirely outside the industry for the past five years, having no connection or interaction with people inside the industry aside from these forums, and all while afraid to put your own name on anything.

Then again, perhaps you do understand branding. You're so afraid of someone knowing who you are, probably because it would tarnish *your* brand.

Stick to revenue issues, (name deleted by moderator). You don't get it when it comes to operations or marketing.

 

[WorldTraveler]

whether DL connects ALL of its passengers in ATL or not isn't the point. The point is that E or you or anyone else can't decide to tack onto a survey with his own UNTESTED opinions and decide that he can now explain the results of the survey.

The survey didn't provide any of the evidence that was asked, E can't provide any evidence to support his position, and now he wants to act - like so many others on here - that because he is "in" the industry (as if an IT related company gives him any more knowledge about branding at one of his clients than the corporate reputation of the trash dept. for the city of Chicago) that he is entitled to speak on a subject while I am not.

E threw his own biases into the subject, he found a little support for his views regardless of whether they are right or not, and now that he is being asked to produce evidence for what he says, he starts throwing stones.

Never seen anything like it before.
Priceless.

And no, EVERYONE doesn't need to connect through Atlanta. whether the world thinks so or not. The world also thinks that AA is late all the time. Even though they aren't.

If it can't be substantiated, it's a bias. Everyone has one.

I have no problem if E or Kev or anyone else tells us what they think of anything - just frame it as THEIR opinion instead of trying to make it out to be something academic or accurate, which it is not.

 

[700UW]

true dat.... and DL is giving out pay raises to its NON-UNION employees without a contract. AGAIN.

And DL can take them away at anytime also.

Just wait till DL passes on the $100 million they say that their healthcare increases will cost next year, and those non-union employees cant do anything about it.

 

[Kev3188]

true dat.... and DL is giving out pay raises to its NON-UNION employees without a contract. AGAIN.

...Which lends further credibility to the idea that the company feels the union drives are viable enough that they need to be thwarted. They also made sure to weave the usual anti union messaging in to the memos sent out today. I'm sure it wasn't lost on anyone that can critically think...

I have no problem if E or Kev or anyone else tells us what they think of anything - just frame it as THEIR opinion instead of trying to make it out to be something academic or accurate, which it is not.

...Unless it agrees with your opinion/worldview/whatever; then it's a rock solid, undeniable truth...

And DL can take them away at anytime also.

Yep. That's one that's often lost on the low information employees. Heck, they may take it away before it goes into effect. April 2014 is a long ways out...

Just wait till DL passes on the $100 million they say that their healthcare increases will cost next year, and those non-union employees cant do anything about it.

Already happening. And while they claim they'll absorb a good chunk of that, employees can bank on paying anywhere from $3 to $22/mo. more in premium increases alone, depending on plan. We'll see if any other employee borne costs go up come Open Enrollment later this fall...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Let's see... an employee would have to have a salary of about $1000 per month for a 3% pay raise not to be larger than the increase in the cost of insurance. How many FT employees does DL have who have a monthly salary less than $1000/month?

And it also doesn't change that health care costs are going up for employers AND employees throughout the US regardless of union affiliation or not.
Focus on the problem instead of trying to make it a litmus test for the effectiveness or not of labor to succeed - because everyone can see that the problem is a national problem and one which no one has been able to solve, unions included.

DL COULD take anything away but they can also give pay raises at will as well. The track record for union-represented airline employees at stopping pay cuts has not been real great; the track record for union represented airline employees gaining salary and benefits ABOVE the contract is ZERO.

DL's employees know that they have received far better and faster increases in pay than their peers at other airlines.

And it is absolutely true that DL recognizes that it has to pay its employees better than its peers at union-represented airlines in order to ensure they choose to remain non-union.
DL employees are allowing their salaries to be set by the marketplace, the same marketplace that would also be used as the basis by union activists to argue whether a company is paying below average. DL just happens to be taking the wind out of their sails and DL employees gain without the fuss of a union. No one loses except the unions who can't seem to organize DL employees.

If DL screws up and stops doing what unions can get at union-represented airlines, DL deserves to have unions and the employees will make sure they get them. And I absolutely do not want to stand in the way of you pointing out real reasons why DL employees should seek a union, if you can genuinely show that unions will achieve something better.

That truth, like everything else I post here, can be backed up by evidence and is not mere bias. If I or anyone else makes statements that cannot be backed up by facts, they deserve to be challenged.

It is precisely because I am right that so many people on here aren't happy about what I have to say.

Nice little exercise in intellectual honesty.

 

[Kev3188]

Let's see... an employee would have to have a salary of about $1000 per month for a 3% pay raise not to be larger than the increase in the cost of insurance. How many FT employees does DL have who have a monthly salary less than $1000/month?

FT? Dunno. A better question might be "how many DL employees don't even have access to insurance benefits?"

That answer, of course, is 1000's.

And many of those people make less than 1k/mo.

And it also doesn't change that health care costs are going up for employers AND employees throughout the US regardless of union affiliation or not.

Can you show us where in this thread anyone said otherwise?

DL COULD take anything away...

...Which is why I suspect cards will continue to be signed apace...

And it is absolutely true that DL recognizes that it has to pay its employees better than its peers at union-represented airlines in order to ensure they choose to remain non-union.

Too bad they never just come out & say it. A little honesty would be a refreshing change.

It is precisely because I am right that so many people on here aren't happy about what I have to say.

Mmmmm, no. I'd say it's more to do with your delivery.

Nice little exercise in intellectual honesty.

... Or example of your shameless vanity. Either or...

 

[737823]

Kev, you do understand that any promise the union makes needs to negotiated and the company ultimately has to agree to? The union is only as good as what they are able to negotiate. No union can escape that healthcare costs in the country are rising rapidly and employers are having employees bear an increasing portion of those costs. They maybe able to live under CBAs with overly generous coverage but eventually they will need to be renegotiated and costs passed on. You recognize this reality, don't you?

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

delivery? are you serious? I have apologized for offending others and offered to try to be more sensitive to their positions and then be told that I am condescending.


I'm speechless.

But I'm also desirous that other people would learn to acknowledge they don't have perfect delivery either and be willing to apologize... it's a dream, anyway.

Did you expect to see a page in the Rules of the Road saying that DL pays more than other airlines in part to keep labor non-unionized? That has been a known and a given for decades.

Kev, you do understand that any promise the union makes needs to negotiated and the company ultimately has to agree to? The union is only as good as what they are able to negotiate. No union can escape that healthcare costs in the country are rising rapidly and employers are having employees bear an increasing portion of those costs. They maybe able to live under CBAs with overly generous coverage but eventually they will need to be renegotiated and costs passed on. You recognize this reality, don't you?

Josh

... and history repeatedly shows that airlines keep a running tab of how much their labor agreements have cost them in above-market costs and somehow manage to get it all back plus interest in the next agreement.

 

[700UW]

DL's employees know that they have received far better and faster increases in pay than their peers at other airlines.

And it is absolutely true that DL recognizes that it has to pay its employees better than its peers at union-represented airlines in order to ensure they choose to remain non-union.

DL employees are allowing their salaries to be set by the marketplace, the same marketplace that would also be used as the basis by union activists to argue whether a company is paying below average. DL just happens to be taking the wind out of their sails and DL employees gain without the fuss of a union. No one loses except the unions who can't seem to organize DL employees.

Guess you have forgotten about WN, highest percentage of unionized employees, highest paid, and yet WN is the most consistent and profitable airline, and they carry more passengers domestically than any other airlines.

Dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[robbedagain]

anthr thread thats been turned from survey shows to union this union that vs non union... the question is what survey is or was delta doing or were they doing it and found to be lagging behind in... and how well is dl trying to get it back together in that area