SUPPORTING THE PILOTS

[PHX-F/A]

that is what all of us on the east have been saying about the "business casual" management team that we've inherited...

don't you mean abducted, and held hostage.....

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

the TWA-IAM/AA-TWU went to binding arbitration where you have exactly what you had pre transaction (full seniority in your bases). Or are you just pi$$ed because you couldn't bump a nAAtive out of his base?

No I think they got pissed when AA reneged on their promise to keep those base stations open but soon thereafter closed them down and out the doors they went.

 

[JMM]

What a minute, why are you holding the west pilots and the company responsbile for this decision? Why are you hurting the passengers with the canceled flights? Your almighty union decided this! Not the loser management team and not the west pilots and certainly not your passengers. YOUR union decided this!

 

[700UW]

I doubt you will see any Mechanic and Related crying for the Pilots when they rushed to cross the picket line in 1992.

And it is a done deal, ALPA East presented their case and must have done a horrible job, they have no one to blame but themselves for electing such bad leadership.

 

[awausairtech]

700uw 100% True! ALPA Your Union bust one off in your back side and you call in sick to hurt the Company. :blink: Someone pick me up off the floor.

 

[allstrike]

Im sorry that it hasnt worked out for you guys,I really am and I wish you luck in your future negotiations.Now maybe working with the other unions on the property will look more attractive.

 

[acmech]

I doubt you will see any Mechanic and Related crying for the Pilots when they rushed to cross the picket line in 1992.

And it is a done deal, ALPA East presented their case and must have done a horrible job, they have no one to blame but themselves for electing such bad leadership.

Exactly. And, where were the pilots when the NWA techs walked in 2005?

 

[UpAllNight]

Support the pilot group? When was the last time in the history of this company, east or west, that the pilots supported ANY other work groups? They would throw their own mothers under the bus to save their own skin.

 

[Bud8EE]

Support the pilot group? When was the last time in the history of this company, east or west, that the pilots supported ANY other work groups? They would throw their own mothers under the bus to save their own skin.

I can tell you they won't even support each other. Having worked at a carrier with a screwed up list, the effects last a generation. I think this is even worse in that ALPA just angered so many people, they wouldn't even an honor an ALPA picket line. Usually people scab out of fear or desperation, and weakness takes over. ALPA just created 3000 potentials but it wouldn't be fear or desperation as a motivator, but pride and anger. That is really bad on so many levels, and a company only needs the trump card of knowing a few hundred strike breakers exist to cram whatever they want down the group's throat. What leverage will their union ever have now. This will have a long reaching effect as there is no such thing as a "local" contact or "local" issues in a highly competitive industry.

 

[hulagirl]

I guess I am confused here: ALPA has no cut and dried bylaws for integrating seniority if and when a mergers occurs. Arbitration is the norm in these situations, correct?
The arbitrator determined, with all facts presented, that the seniority would be determined, and the East pilots are unhappy with the results.
If things had gone more their way, this outrage would be on the West's side, presumably.
Aritration is legally binding. It is what it is.
Maybe ALPA should adopt a more formal merger policy, as AFA has.
In the mean time, live with it, because it isn't going to change.
And, welcome to our world.
We ALL see our seniority meaning less and less on the West side.
Do we like it? Hell no! But we follow the rules and policies of our union, and deal with it.

 

[exB717Flyer]

The whole thing reminds me of the shafting that American Airlines and its unions did to 20,000+ employees of the late TWA.

It shouldn't. The AA unions did those things unilaterally and selfishly. The West and East pilots agreed to a fair process of binding arbitration and we got it.

I guess I am confused here: ALPA has no cut and dried bylaws for integrating seniority if and when a mergers occurs. Arbitration is the norm in these situations, correct?

ALPA does have cut-and-dried bylaws for seniority integration. Binding arbitration occurs only if the two sides fail to reach agreement. What we don't have is a preset, one-size-fits-all seniority integration method. This is in recognition that every merger is different.

From Section 45, Merger and Fragmentation Policy:
The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In
joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:

a. Preserve jobs.
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living.
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

Arbitrator Nicolau made his determination based on this. Obviously many disagree with him but it's binding nonetheless.

 

[Twicebaked]

I'm not sure the F/A's senority is safe even though its been a done deal (me too and all).

The AFA bylaws and our contract have NOTHING to do with each other. Me too or otherwise has NO bearing on what has already been settled....DOH for the flight attendants.

Rather than bring that up again, let's focus on what can been done for the pilots that got royaly F$%#KED!!!!!!!

 

[ab320driver]

That's almost as tasteless and irrelevant as asking about the folks who took a dip in the drink at LGA or ended up a bit short of CLT due to the impressive acumen of US East crews over the years.

Everyone has baggage.

LGA Icing, CLT windshear. MIA HAPPY HOUR... Get just a few facts....

 

[Twicebaked]

As a F/A I don't like the DOH integration BUT our merger policy dictates that it be done according to seniority. wrong.

Why should ANYONE lose their time with a company? Especially as seniority driven industry!

If we merged with Delta, would you have wanted to be stapled or slotted with 14,000 f/as??

I agree that it is not the east fault and not the west with the pilot issues, but anything but DOH is just NOT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!! PERIOD

 

[Hope777]

Support the pilot group? When was the last time in the history of this company, east or west, that the pilots supported ANY other work groups? They would throw their own mothers under the bus to save their own skin.

Exactly,
Ask the Pilots from Piedmont and PSA about what they think. Because of the restrictive contracts by the East Pilots, USAir and then USAirways were always behind the eight ball in bringing RJ's onto the property. I do not believe they deserved such a poor ruling, but it is what it is.... I feel sorry for them, but I will not support them in any type of job action because they would not support us either.