stop the outsourcing?

[700UW]

No prob.  They are just two morons trying to rule the board and confuse people...

And you are nothing more than the same.
 
You are obsessed, you have posted about me and WT many times.
 
You are obsessed.

 

[swamt]

And you are nothing more than the same.
 
You are obsessed, you have posted about me and WT many times.
 
You are obsessed.

I am not the same.  I, sir, speak the truth.  I do not purposely set out to confuse, distort, or mis-inform anyone.  I have to post about you and your twin as you two constantly either put out mis-information or purposely keep the memberships confused.  700, you will be proven wrong on the outcome of the up coming NMB ruling, mark my words chief...

 

[southwind]

No prob.  They are just two morons trying to rule the board and confuse people...

Unlike the other DL topic, guess personal attacks are allowed in this one!
 

You are obsessed.

Say's the Dude, who has more post on a topic that doesn't affect him!
 

  I, sir, speak the truth.  I do not purposely set out to confuse, distort, or mis-inform anyone.

So does 700, as long as you leave out the negative aspects of being represented by a union!

 

[700UW]

I am not the same.  I, sir, speak the truth.  I do not purposely set out to confuse, distort, or mis-inform anyone.  I have to post about you and your twin as you two constantly either put out mis-information or purposely keep the memberships confused.  700, you will be proven wrong on the outcome of the up coming NMB ruling, mark my words chief...

So how about admitting you were wrong about the NMB not handling the vote?

 

[WorldTraveler]

or its DL telling WT what to say etc   but the fact remains The Dawg Owns WT

are you into bondage?

no one "owns" anyone.

and specific to this topic (which looks like it needs to be locked based on the amount of personal attacks), the simple fact is that DL's CURRENT amount of maintenance outsourcing reflects the amount DL and NW each had at the time of the merger.

dawg's fear of NW maintenance mgmt. should be directed to those who ran NW BEFORE the merger.

as if there is anything that can be done about it now.

 

[LD3]

You seem to always ask that a thread should be locked.....

 

[WorldTraveler]

there are plenty of other people who have said the same thing.

the name calling does nothing to foster conversation.

the topic didn't even start about maintenance outsourcing... the original post was trying to connect DL's ground service outsourcing in MN with terrorism. noting that the thread should be locked is driven by the fact that there are several threads discussing the same topic and none of them address terrorism, outsourcing, and immigrants.
We've now segged from ground outsourcing to maintenance outsourcing and dawg has inserted his displeasure with DL's level of maintenance outsourcing even while I have pointed out that DL's current level of maintenance outsourcing is almost to the percent mathematically identical to what DL and NW both did at the time of the merger. At that time, AA and DL had very comparable levels of maintenance outsourcing.

dawg has asserted that DL could do more in-house work based on resources he says are available. I wholeheartedly support his efforts to use DL resources better if that is the case.

I don't make the decisions about what work DL chooses to do in-house and what MRO work DL sends out vs. brings in.

dawg has my complete support if he can get more work passing thru DL maintenance shops.

 

[Kev3188]

the name calling does nothing to foster conversation.

Keep that in mind the next time you get the urge to refer to someone as "son."

 

[swamt]

So how about admitting you were wrong about the NMB not handling the vote?

Hellooooo!!!  Decision has not been made yet.  If they handle the election I will, as I always do if I was wrong about something...
And let me assure you one thing,  I hope to hell I am wrong and NMB conducts the election as them AMFA will have a better chance with more options as write-in (which took you 2 weeks to finally admit as you purposely kept confusing the members)  and quite possibly get AMFA on the ballot...

 

[swamt]

 

You seem to always ask that a thread should be locked.....

 

He always does when he's been proven wrong about something, or when he gets hammered by the alot of posters, especially when something or someone makes him look bad.

 

[WorldTraveler]

again, the thread has drifted far from what was originally proposed.

i'm being hammered by no one and I am more than happy to keep the discussion going.

However, neither dawg or anyone else has been able to dispute that the amount of maintenance outsourcing at DL is nearly mathematically identical to what DL and NW did at the time of the merger.

thus, complaining at least about maintenance outsourcing is meaningless relative to other legacy peers since pre merger DL had maintenance outsourcing levels comparable to AA and the level has changed only by the amount of outsourcing that NW did at the time of the merger.

 

[robbedagain]

so no matter how much of ur bs is disputed and proven to be wrong only answers our theory that you are always right and that everyone else is wrong   got it!    it also reinforces your notion that DL can do no wrong but no other airline can do no right period.

 

[WorldTraveler]

sorry, robbed, but you got it wrong.

again.

I have said repeatedly that the vast majority of the data that is publicly available does not really tell how well the majority of people do.

Comparisons of a person at a particular point on a scale is the most accurate way to show how well THAT person does... but even as Kev notes, there are differences between scales.

I have also said there are differences between how many people are at each point ON THE SCALE which is why averages might tell one story but it isn't reflective of any person in the group.

Nowhere have I ever said DL can do no wrong and other carriers can do no right.

I'm truly sorry that is the message you have heard.

 

[topDawg]

and you know for a fact that they have solicited business and didn't get it?

the fact that they don't yet have MRO work doesn't have a whole lot of meaning.

of course in your conspiracy driven mind, DL had no intention of using the AM partnership as a means to secure MRO work.

Tell me, dawg, why would DL develop a RISK SHARING, PROFIT BASED joint venture with AM if they didn't intend to bring in MRO work?

Why does DL have a JV with AF/KL, Virgin Australia and Atlantic etc if they didn't intend to SHARE in the decisions and profits?

If they just wanted to send work out, they could have done it - that is what the regional carrier program was built around.

 
Its not rocket science. Delta is having a major problem, so are the other airlines, with product control. If you send an airplane to AAR or TIMCO you don't get to control the product that is coming out. 
 
With the AM JV Now Delta gets a better handle on control for the HMVs. Its also not rocket science why the long term goal is to shift all of Delta's HMVs to this JV. 
 
As I have said before, Delta is not happy with the quality of work they are getting. The margins for sending the work out vs doing it in-house are to thin (ie 1-2% on a good day) to be able to justify having a plane in a hangar double the time it took in-house and to have the plane come back to ATL for more hangar time fixing work that wasn't done correctly by the MROs. 
 
So what do you do? you want to try and find lower cost work but have the quality of in-house. So Delta changed vendors.....that didn't work. So they come up with the idea to have Delta build this hangar in Mexico to have a better handle on what is going on. They also use AM as a part of it because the airlines have comparable fleets so now they can target lower cost because of scale. (Its cheaper to do a 737 overhaul when you have 100 of them in the fleet vs having 50 in the fleet) 
 
In other words its basic economics. And it looks GREAT on paper. 
the problem is you don't get the production with the lower cost work force. It is also very hard for Delta to produce the margins compared to someone like AA or UA because it has such a lower cost work force. Pay is a factor but so is production. The problem these MROs have is they want the product levels of Delta but want to pay less to get it. It simply doesn't work. I work the way I work because of my pay. If Delta were to cut that pay down to 20 an hour then i would slow down. 
 
AA and UA however have a issue of having more man power per tail that what is really needed. Also trying to push the company into having nothing but AMT drives up costs margins against the MROs. 
 
 
the 3rd party work side of it was a cover to get the Delta people to go along with it. I'm sure they will do some limited work but the real reason Delta is doing that is because sending the HMVs out have been a complete failure. They went back to the table and came up with this idea. Its fairly low risk, because if Delta were to pull out AM can still use the hangar for its own fleet. This is why you aren't seeing any marketing for it, any PRs about it etc. etc. Even the limited stuff you find is all in Spanish and talks more about AM than Delta.  
 
This is also why its only the MD88 fleet right now. They will slow phase in more work if this plan works out. (if not, they go back to the table to figure out a new idea.) 

no, it is clearly DL that owns dawg.

Why would any person subject themselves to an organization that they distrust as much as dawg distrusts DL?

Because as much as you want to paint me into this big union pushing Delta hating monster its false. 
 
you can love your job, love your company but see things and point out things that are wrong. Just like you can be happy with your pay scales but still want a union for other things. Or your pay might not be the best in the industry but still have a industry leading contract. 
 
The world isn't black and white. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

first, excellent summary of the AM partnership. You have said it before and I don't disagree with your assessment.

but your fears of them taking over work hasn't been validated even by your own statement because the maintenance JV is still doing a fairly small amount of work; other MROs are still doing work they have been doing. They are a long distance from taking work that you all do now.

It would also appear that the slow pace means that DL and AM both want to make sure they are producing a quality product before they try to sell it; we can recheck in a couple years and if DL and AM are not doing any outside work, then I think your point can be accepted as valid. We just aren't there yet.

I am not against your union views, dawg. I do question how you can be as cynical and distrustful about mgmt. and their intentions and stay at DL. If it really bothers you as much as you make it sound, then I would never want to work for any company or organization and harbor those feelings.

once again, I respect you and what you do. I don't expect you or anyone else to blindly accept what is handed to you; but I would also hope that you can find some things about what DL is doing that are good and positive.