Southwest lies about times!

[luv2fly]

your brethern at the other airlines would never do anything like close and lock the freaking door 10 minutes prior to departure, as Delta has done on a couple of flights I was on.

Closing the door 10 minutes prior to departure is called an early departure. Perhaps you meant to say the door was closed and the flight left 10 minutes late?

 

[Rhino]

ALPA pilots at UAL/US/DAL/NWA refused concessions with their companies on the verge of bankruptcy. APA pilots did agree to concessions. Guess which group kept their retirement intact?

Now those ALPA groups work under company-imposed contracts that have greatly diminished QOL aspects in addition to compensation. UAL pilots were employee-owners. They bear significant responsibility for their current situation. Collidge kidz should know better.

DALPA fiddled while DAL was losing BILLIONS.

To compare that to SWAPA declining to futher delay initiating Sec 6 negotiations is absurd.

 

[luv2fly]

You didn't answer my question. Did you not attend college?

 

[Rhino]

Not really, unless you count the academies and post-graduate degrees.

 

[luv2fly]

Not really, unless you count the academies and post-graduate degrees.

Uh huh. That explains much to me.

 

[magsau]

ALPA pilots at UAL/US/DAL/NWA refused concessions with their companies on the verge of bankruptcy. APA pilots did agree to concessions. Guess which group kept their retirement intact?

Now those ALPA groups work under company-imposed contracts that have greatly diminished QOL aspects in addition to compensation. UAL pilots were employee-owners. They bear significant responsibility for their current situation. Collidge kidz should know better.

First learn to spell. Second your revisionist history is way off. The UAL pilots had reduction agreements in place before Ch11 filing. It was the mechanics voting NO on their concessions that sent UA to the BK court. Also, the carriers you mentioned are not working under mgmnt. imposed terms. Those contracts were negotiated. However, if you think all is peachy at AA you might consider the recent letter stating "we want our money back" from the APA to AA.

The information on the agreements is readily available if you wish to apply yourself to some investigation and work to educate yourself before you post lies and distortions.

 

[KCFlyer]

However, if you think all is peachy at AA you might consider the recent letter stating "we want our money back" from the APA to AA.

If UA has one more profitable quarter, I'd guess you'll be seeing a "we want our money back, too" letter from UA pilots to UA.

 

[Rhino]

Mags, you can spin your tale any way you want. UAL pilots in particular (they were owners, after all) crapped in their nest while choking the golden goose.

"Collidge" is incorrect? How about "kidz"? Or do you spell it that way, too?

 

[magsau]

Mags, you can spin your tale any way you want. UAL pilots in particular (they were owners, after all) crapped in their nest while choking the golden goose.

"Collidge" is incorrect? How about "kidz"? Or do you spell it that way, too?

Rhino,

Here is something else you are MISSING. Facts are not spun. Fact: Sun rises in East, Sets in West, Fact: January is the first month of the calendar year. Fact: UA pilots had agreement with company for pay cuts PRIOR to BK Filing.

Spin is what you are trying miserably to do. To spin something you must use facts to prove your point. ie; Bob Crandall started B-scale at the major carriers. Start with something that is true and move from there to your view of how those FACTS are administered. What you have done is told a LIE or you have a gross misunderstanding of the FACTS. If it is knowledge that is lacking then educate yourself, otherwise you are just a liar.

Also, the DAL pilots had given similar paycuts to the UAL pilots prior to DL CH11 filing. I believe NWA also took cuts prior to BK.

I certainly hope your AA pilots can get their money back. It would be good to see the fringe carriers, AA and SWA take a leaders stance in contract negotiations and not rely on the ALPA carriers to do the heavy lifting for you folks.

As for the lack of AA BK filing. How many votes did it take to get the FA's at AA to sign off on cuts? That was the difference in AA filing BK and not.

 

[KCFlyer]

Spin is what you are trying miserably to do. To spin something you must use facts to prove your point. ie; Bob Crandall started B-scale at the major carriers. Start with something that is true and move from there to your view of how those FACTS are administered. What you have done is told a LIE or you have a gross misunderstanding of the FACTS. If it is knowledge that is lacking then educate yourself, otherwise you are just a liar.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...remember
THIS bit of spin from another thread mags?

The Wright Amendment could not have been in place when SWA moved to DAL. Someone must have put it in place just after they moved in. Oh wait, SWA moved to DAL to take advantage of the other carriers leaving. (do you see the trend of SWA riding the coattails of others) The other carriers left because of the Wright Amendment and the opening of DFW. If SWA did not want to operate under the confines of the WA then they were more than welcome to compete out of the vast expanse of DFW.

I'll leave you with your own words:

What I have done is told a LIE or I have a gross misunderstanding of the FACTS. If it is knowledge that is lacking then educate myself, otherwise I am just a liar.

 

[Rhino]

Mags, you're assertions don't change the fact that ALPA concessions were "too little, too late" to avoid Ch 11.
Your "facts" are "factoids." They don't tell the story of how your union contributed to running UAL into the ground.

 

[luv2fly]

Mags, you're assertions don't change the fact that ALPA concessions were "too little, too late" to avoid Ch 11.

Your ignorance is blinding. No amount of employee concessions would have saved US,UA,NW, or DL from BK.

 

[ramper_in_las]

First learn to spell. Second your revisionist history is way off. The UAL pilots had reduction agreements in place before Ch11 filing. It was the mechanics voting NO on their concessions that sent UA to the BK court. Also, the carriers you mentioned are not working under mgmnt. imposed terms. Those contracts were negotiated. However, if you think all is peachy at AA you might consider the recent letter stating "we want our money back" from the APA to AA.

The information on the agreements is readily available if you wish to apply yourself to some investigation and work to educate yourself before you post lies and distortions.

Mag,

Here is my question to you. You keep metioning the pay cut before ch 11 filings. My issue with the employee pay cuts is this. If the legacy execs expect the hard working employees to take pay cuts during the last 5 years. Why is it that those same execs keep getting thier year end bonuses? In my opinion everyone seems to ignore this issue.

 

[Rhino]

Luv2, you stated that no level of concessions would have saved legacies from Ch 11. I think that statement is patently false.

DAL, post 9-11 was in the best position of all the legacies. CAL didn't file. AA didn't file.

DALPA, OTOH, had just negotiated industry-leading, but now unsupportable, wages AND a scope clause that ensured further losses. You slow-leaked Delta into Ch 11. Non-union work groups had concessions imposed.

Who is ignorant? You collidge kidz who are supposed to be smart. You guys did a really nice job.

 

[nbmcg01]

Luv2, you stated that no level of concessions would have saved legacies from Ch 11. I think that statement is patently false.

DAL, post 9-11 was in the best position of all the legacies. CAL didn't file. AA didn't file.

DALPA, OTOH, had just negotiated industry-leading, but now unsupportable, wages AND a scope clause that ensured further losses. You slow-leaked Delta into Ch 11. Non-union work groups had concessions imposed.

Who is ignorant? You collidge kidz who are supposed to be smart. You guys did a really nice job.

MEOW!!! Folks, ALL airlines pad times for the DOT stats. It's called "taxi time". lol