Something To Ponder,
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- Apr 3, 2003
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I would like you to stop, spend several days looking over the many Amfa posts and see what I am talking about, ask yourself "Is amfa what I really want in the future?" Outsource unlimited!!!
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
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Industry Leading Concessions - Without Further Ratification
And a Federal Judge ruling that my Labor Agreement can be amended or modified without membership approval.
That must be the part of UNION I don't understand!
And a Federal Judge ruling that my Labor Agreement can be amended or modified without membership approval.
That must be the part of UNION I don't understand!
OP
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- Apr 3, 2003
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I would like you to stop, spend several days looking over the many Amfa posts and see what I am talking about, ask yourself "Is amfa what I really want in the future?" Outsource unlimited!!!
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
March 31, 2003
James C. Little
Administrative Vice President, Air Transport Division
Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO
1791 Hurstview Dr.
Hurst, Texas 76054
Re: Summary of the 2003 Contract changes
This will confirm our understanding reached during the negotiations leading up to the agreement signed on (DOS), 2003. During these negotiations, we discussed many changes intended to achieve sustained long-term financial relief from the current provisions of the TWU labor agreements. This letter is intended to recap the majority of the agreed upon changes. Changes are listed by Title groups: I (Mechanics and Related), II (Facilities, Automotive, Cabin Cleaners, Utility and Building Cleaners), III (Fleet Service), IV (Fuelers), V (Stock Clerks), T/S (Technical Specials), Disp (Dispatch), Metro (Meteorologists), Sim Techs (Simulator Technicians) and Instrs (Ground School and Pilot Instructors).
Pay Related
Effective May 1, 2003:
§ Base wage pay reduction, varying percentages (all groups)
§ Elimination of all longevity pay(I & II)
§ Modified longevity pay, start after 17 years, current rates (III, IV, V,T/S)
§ Reduced Sim Tech Coordinator premium by $.75/hour
§ Reduced Sim Tech Skill pay to $.10/hour
§ Reduced Pilot Simulator Instructors premium to $10.00/month
§ Reduced Ground School/Pilot Simulator Instructors standardization coordinator pay to $150.00/month
§ Reduced Pilot/Simulator Instructors work unit experience premium
§ Modified shift differential to $.01, $.02, $.03 (I, II, III, V, T/S, Sim Techs)
§ Elimination of weekend differential (I, II, V, at AFW, TUL, MCI)
§ Elimination of midnight skill retention premium (Sim Techs)
§ Training pay at straight time for off shift and day off (I, II)
§ Elimination of penalty lunch payment (I, II, III, IV, V)
§ Elimination of OT meal allowance (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S)
§ Penalty hours pay for actual time worked @ 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S)
§ Reduce OT rate from 2x to 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V)
§ Work 40 hrs to reach OT rate for day off overtime (III, V)
§ Elimination of debrief pay (T/S)
§ Elimination of Stock Clerk driver premium
§ Elimination of AMT premiums when displacing OSM employee
§ Elimination of Early Call-In guarantees (I, II, III, IV)
§ Elimination of short turn penalty due to shift bids (Art 21 d) (III, IV)
§ Elimination of CC premium when not working as CC (III,V)
Work Rules/ Other changes and effective dates:
Effective April 15, 2003:
§ Combine Systems/Structures into Generals (Title I)
§ Added 7 day labor loan provision (Bases only)
§ Increased AMT productivity through multiple work assignments/training
§ Holidays reduced from 10 to 5. The five (5) observed holidays will be: New Year’s Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, and Christmas Day (all groups)
o Holidays- 5 days with roll @ 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S, Sim Techs)
o Holidays- 5 days (no roll) @ 1.5x (Disp, Metro, Instrs)
Effective May 1, 2003
§ Reduce annual SK accrual to 5 days @ 100% (all except I & II)
§ Reduce annual SK accrual to 5 days, 1st two at 50% (I & II)
Effective May 3, 2003
§ 4/10s at Overhaul docks/TUL, duration of agreement
Effective within sixty (60) days of ratification:
§ Outsource RON/Ultraclean (II/III)
§ One time System protection credit for headcount reductions realized from work rule changes (all groups except Metro)
Effective thirty (30) days from ratification:
§ Reduce uniform provisioning and eliminate laundering (I, II, III, IV, V)
§ Outsource stores function at HDQ (6 Stock Clerks)
§ Relocate 4 Stock Clerks at ORD/GEM to ORD/M & E hanger
Effective as soon as practicable after DOS:
§ Change work schedule to 5 on, 2 off (T/S)
§ Reduced VC accrual one week (all groups)
§ Modify Crew Chief ratios:
AMT- 1:11.5
FSC- 1:9
Fuelers- eliminated ratio
Stores- 1:12
Benefits:
§ Medical & Dental plan modifications (all groups) Effective 1/1/04
§ SLOA Benefit Coverage reduced from 24 to12 months (all groups)
Effective 5/01/03
§ Eliminate STD Plan (all groups) Effective 1/1/04
§ Discontinue subsidized medical benefits RIF’d employees (all groups)
Effective 4/15/03
§ Modify IOD to 10 days (all groups) Effective 5/01/03 with the following transition:
o If the injury was incurred prior to 4/15/03, remaining applicable salary continuation through the end of the month up to the current 80 days
o If the injury is incurred on 4/15/03 or before 4/30/03, salary continuation for 10 days up to the current 80 days
o If the injury is incurred after 5/01/03, salary continuation for 10 days
Sincerely,
James B. Weel
Managing Director
Employee Relations
Agreed to this date:
________________________________
James C Little
Transport Workers Union, AFL-CIO
James C. Little
Administrative Vice President, Air Transport Division
Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO
1791 Hurstview Dr.
Hurst, Texas 76054
Re: Summary of the 2003 Contract changes
This will confirm our understanding reached during the negotiations leading up to the agreement signed on (DOS), 2003. During these negotiations, we discussed many changes intended to achieve sustained long-term financial relief from the current provisions of the TWU labor agreements. This letter is intended to recap the majority of the agreed upon changes. Changes are listed by Title groups: I (Mechanics and Related), II (Facilities, Automotive, Cabin Cleaners, Utility and Building Cleaners), III (Fleet Service), IV (Fuelers), V (Stock Clerks), T/S (Technical Specials), Disp (Dispatch), Metro (Meteorologists), Sim Techs (Simulator Technicians) and Instrs (Ground School and Pilot Instructors).
Pay Related
Effective May 1, 2003:
§ Base wage pay reduction, varying percentages (all groups)
§ Elimination of all longevity pay(I & II)
§ Modified longevity pay, start after 17 years, current rates (III, IV, V,T/S)
§ Reduced Sim Tech Coordinator premium by $.75/hour
§ Reduced Sim Tech Skill pay to $.10/hour
§ Reduced Pilot Simulator Instructors premium to $10.00/month
§ Reduced Ground School/Pilot Simulator Instructors standardization coordinator pay to $150.00/month
§ Reduced Pilot/Simulator Instructors work unit experience premium
§ Modified shift differential to $.01, $.02, $.03 (I, II, III, V, T/S, Sim Techs)
§ Elimination of weekend differential (I, II, V, at AFW, TUL, MCI)
§ Elimination of midnight skill retention premium (Sim Techs)
§ Training pay at straight time for off shift and day off (I, II)
§ Elimination of penalty lunch payment (I, II, III, IV, V)
§ Elimination of OT meal allowance (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S)
§ Penalty hours pay for actual time worked @ 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S)
§ Reduce OT rate from 2x to 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V)
§ Work 40 hrs to reach OT rate for day off overtime (III, V)
§ Elimination of debrief pay (T/S)
§ Elimination of Stock Clerk driver premium
§ Elimination of AMT premiums when displacing OSM employee
§ Elimination of Early Call-In guarantees (I, II, III, IV)
§ Elimination of short turn penalty due to shift bids (Art 21 d) (III, IV)
§ Elimination of CC premium when not working as CC (III,V)
Work Rules/ Other changes and effective dates:
Effective April 15, 2003:
§ Combine Systems/Structures into Generals (Title I)
§ Added 7 day labor loan provision (Bases only)
§ Increased AMT productivity through multiple work assignments/training
§ Holidays reduced from 10 to 5. The five (5) observed holidays will be: New Year’s Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, and Christmas Day (all groups)
o Holidays- 5 days with roll @ 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S, Sim Techs)
o Holidays- 5 days (no roll) @ 1.5x (Disp, Metro, Instrs)
Effective May 1, 2003
§ Reduce annual SK accrual to 5 days @ 100% (all except I & II)
§ Reduce annual SK accrual to 5 days, 1st two at 50% (I & II)
Effective May 3, 2003
§ 4/10s at Overhaul docks/TUL, duration of agreement
Effective within sixty (60) days of ratification:
§ Outsource RON/Ultraclean (II/III)
§ One time System protection credit for headcount reductions realized from work rule changes (all groups except Metro)
Effective thirty (30) days from ratification:
§ Reduce uniform provisioning and eliminate laundering (I, II, III, IV, V)
§ Outsource stores function at HDQ (6 Stock Clerks)
§ Relocate 4 Stock Clerks at ORD/GEM to ORD/M & E hanger
Effective as soon as practicable after DOS:
§ Change work schedule to 5 on, 2 off (T/S)
§ Reduced VC accrual one week (all groups)
§ Modify Crew Chief ratios:
AMT- 1:11.5
FSC- 1:9
Fuelers- eliminated ratio
Stores- 1:12
Benefits:
§ Medical & Dental plan modifications (all groups) Effective 1/1/04
§ SLOA Benefit Coverage reduced from 24 to12 months (all groups)
Effective 5/01/03
§ Eliminate STD Plan (all groups) Effective 1/1/04
§ Discontinue subsidized medical benefits RIF’d employees (all groups)
Effective 4/15/03
§ Modify IOD to 10 days (all groups) Effective 5/01/03 with the following transition:
o If the injury was incurred prior to 4/15/03, remaining applicable salary continuation through the end of the month up to the current 80 days
o If the injury is incurred on 4/15/03 or before 4/30/03, salary continuation for 10 days up to the current 80 days
o If the injury is incurred after 5/01/03, salary continuation for 10 days
Sincerely,
James B. Weel
Managing Director
Employee Relations
Agreed to this date:
________________________________
James C Little
Transport Workers Union, AFL-CIO
OP
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- Apr 3, 2003
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Bob, do you actually believe what you write? you want us to believe the threat you are suggesting? You of all people know the membership is only as strong as the leaders! You have been tearing down the members of local 562 for so long you have lost site!
The members are the Union! You can tell when you have a strong officer or a weak one!
I have never suggested that either the line or bases are superior to either! And I also believe (cola) should be negotiated!
In fact, I supported the flex starting rates negoitiated in the past!
Change from within is achiveable but not to the extent you and others wanted! divide and conquer is not the answer!
I believe anyone reading what you are writing can see exactly what I have been writing about! Suggesting Amfa cares about all is a joke, all you have to do is read the last 2 contracts they negotiated and you can see what they are doing away with! I suggest you go and become educated about amfa and then come back and discuss it!
The members are the Union! You can tell when you have a strong officer or a weak one!
I have never suggested that either the line or bases are superior to either! And I also believe (cola) should be negotiated!
In fact, I supported the flex starting rates negoitiated in the past!
Change from within is achiveable but not to the extent you and others wanted! divide and conquer is not the answer!
I believe anyone reading what you are writing can see exactly what I have been writing about! Suggesting Amfa cares about all is a joke, all you have to do is read the last 2 contracts they negotiated and you can see what they are doing away with! I suggest you go and become educated about amfa and then come back and discuss it!
Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!
Senior
- Jan 26, 2004
- 279
- 0
Every month the twu has a pitiful showing at the union meetings. The twu has failed in solidarity 101 as well as basic Democracy. 95% of the membership in Tulsa only knows one thing, the twu has taking away 50+ years of negotiated wages and benefits from their paycheck without a snapback. The pilots just got a 7% raise, we get 1 1/2%. I can't blame them for being mad. The twu has lost all credibility with it's membership. Even if the AMFA was as bad as the twu wannabes say, it won't matter to the masses. The word is, "ANYONE BUT THE TWU"!!
This drive was soooooooooo easy. We just sit back and collect the cards. Our AA flight attendants and the Horizon mechanics have shown us the way out of the twu. They saw the light and so have we!!
I'm sorry you twu international wanabees will have to go back to work soon. You'll get used to those 1/2 pay sick days.
Keep the Faith...........VOTE AMFA!!!
This drive was soooooooooo easy. We just sit back and collect the cards. Our AA flight attendants and the Horizon mechanics have shown us the way out of the twu. They saw the light and so have we!!
I'm sorry you twu international wanabees will have to go back to work soon. You'll get used to those 1/2 pay sick days.
Keep the Faith...........VOTE AMFA!!!
Johnny Lunchbox
Advanced
- Feb 28, 2004
- 159
- 0
So you think that if AMFA is retained as your bargaining agent that your new hall will be SRO? And at the point the membership participation drops you will actively seek a new union? Your type is weak. The people in TULE know what? They should know that the TWU, not AMFA, has retained their jobs through their insistance of the passage of the concessions. Either your local is so young, and has not been through dire times, or they have turned a deaf ear to what has saved their peanut butter jelly!Stop the Bus..I Want Off! said:
OP
Checking it Out
Veteran
- Apr 3, 2003
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- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #27
I would like you to stop, spend several days looking over the many Amfa posts and see what I am talking about, ask yourself "Is amfa what I really want in the future?" Outsource unlimited!!!
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
March 31, 2003
James C. Little
Administrative Vice President, Air Transport Division
Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO
1791 Hurstview Dr.
Hurst, Texas 76054
Re: Summary of the 2003 Contract changes
This will confirm our understanding reached during the negotiations leading up to the agreement signed on (DOS), 2003. During these negotiations, we discussed many changes intended to achieve sustained long-term financial relief from the current provisions of the TWU labor agreements. This letter is intended to recap the majority of the agreed upon changes. Changes are listed by Title groups: I (Mechanics and Related), II (Facilities, Automotive, Cabin Cleaners, Utility and Building Cleaners), III (Fleet Service), IV (Fuelers), V (Stock Clerks), T/S (Technical Specials), Disp (Dispatch), Metro (Meteorologists), Sim Techs (Simulator Technicians) and Instrs (Ground School and Pilot Instructors).
Pay Related
Effective May 1, 2003:
§ Base wage pay reduction, varying percentages (all groups)
§ Elimination of all longevity pay(I & II)
§ Modified longevity pay, start after 17 years, current rates (III, IV, V,T/S)
§ Reduced Sim Tech Coordinator premium by $.75/hour
§ Reduced Sim Tech Skill pay to $.10/hour
§ Reduced Pilot Simulator Instructors premium to $10.00/month
§ Reduced Ground School/Pilot Simulator Instructors standardization coordinator pay to $150.00/month
§ Reduced Pilot/Simulator Instructors work unit experience premium
§ Modified shift differential to $.01, $.02, $.03 (I, II, III, V, T/S, Sim Techs)
§ Elimination of weekend differential (I, II, V, at AFW, TUL, MCI)
§ Elimination of midnight skill retention premium (Sim Techs)
§ Training pay at straight time for off shift and day off (I, II)
§ Elimination of penalty lunch payment (I, II, III, IV, V)
§ Elimination of OT meal allowance (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S)
§ Penalty hours pay for actual time worked @ 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S)
§ Reduce OT rate from 2x to 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V)
§ Work 40 hrs to reach OT rate for day off overtime (III, V)
§ Elimination of debrief pay (T/S)
§ Elimination of Stock Clerk driver premium
§ Elimination of AMT premiums when displacing OSM employee
§ Elimination of Early Call-In guarantees (I, II, III, IV)
§ Elimination of short turn penalty due to shift bids (Art 21 d) (III, IV)
§ Elimination of CC premium when not working as CC (III,V)
Work Rules/ Other changes and effective dates:
Effective April 15, 2003:
§ Combine Systems/Structures into Generals (Title I)
§ Added 7 day labor loan provision (Bases only)
§ Increased AMT productivity through multiple work assignments/training
§ Holidays reduced from 10 to 5. The five (5) observed holidays will be: New Year’s Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, and Christmas Day (all groups)
o Holidays- 5 days with roll @ 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S, Sim Techs)
o Holidays- 5 days (no roll) @ 1.5x (Disp, Metro, Instrs)
Effective May 1, 2003
§ Reduce annual SK accrual to 5 days @ 100% (all except I & II)
§ Reduce annual SK accrual to 5 days, 1st two at 50% (I & II)
Effective May 3, 2003
§ 4/10s at Overhaul docks/TUL, duration of agreement
Effective within sixty (60) days of ratification:
§ Outsource RON/Ultraclean (II/III)
§ One time System protection credit for headcount reductions realized from work rule changes (all groups except Metro)
Effective thirty (30) days from ratification:
§ Reduce uniform provisioning and eliminate laundering (I, II, III, IV, V)
§ Outsource stores function at HDQ (6 Stock Clerks)
§ Relocate 4 Stock Clerks at ORD/GEM to ORD/M & E hanger
Effective as soon as practicable after DOS:
§ Change work schedule to 5 on, 2 off (T/S)
§ Reduced VC accrual one week (all groups)
§ Modify Crew Chief ratios:
AMT- 1:11.5
FSC- 1:9
Fuelers- eliminated ratio
Stores- 1:12
Benefits:
§ Medical & Dental plan modifications (all groups) Effective 1/1/04
§ SLOA Benefit Coverage reduced from 24 to12 months (all groups)
Effective 5/01/03
§ Eliminate STD Plan (all groups) Effective 1/1/04
§ Discontinue subsidized medical benefits RIF’d employees (all groups)
Effective 4/15/03
§ Modify IOD to 10 days (all groups) Effective 5/01/03 with the following transition:
o If the injury was incurred prior to 4/15/03, remaining applicable salary continuation through the end of the month up to the current 80 days
o If the injury is incurred on 4/15/03 or before 4/30/03, salary continuation for 10 days up to the current 80 days
o If the injury is incurred after 5/01/03, salary continuation for 10 days
Sincerely,
James B. Weel
Managing Director
Employee Relations
Agreed to this date:
________________________________
James C Little
Transport Workers Union, AFL-CIO
James C. Little
Administrative Vice President, Air Transport Division
Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO
1791 Hurstview Dr.
Hurst, Texas 76054
Re: Summary of the 2003 Contract changes
This will confirm our understanding reached during the negotiations leading up to the agreement signed on (DOS), 2003. During these negotiations, we discussed many changes intended to achieve sustained long-term financial relief from the current provisions of the TWU labor agreements. This letter is intended to recap the majority of the agreed upon changes. Changes are listed by Title groups: I (Mechanics and Related), II (Facilities, Automotive, Cabin Cleaners, Utility and Building Cleaners), III (Fleet Service), IV (Fuelers), V (Stock Clerks), T/S (Technical Specials), Disp (Dispatch), Metro (Meteorologists), Sim Techs (Simulator Technicians) and Instrs (Ground School and Pilot Instructors).
Pay Related
Effective May 1, 2003:
§ Base wage pay reduction, varying percentages (all groups)
§ Elimination of all longevity pay(I & II)
§ Modified longevity pay, start after 17 years, current rates (III, IV, V,T/S)
§ Reduced Sim Tech Coordinator premium by $.75/hour
§ Reduced Sim Tech Skill pay to $.10/hour
§ Reduced Pilot Simulator Instructors premium to $10.00/month
§ Reduced Ground School/Pilot Simulator Instructors standardization coordinator pay to $150.00/month
§ Reduced Pilot/Simulator Instructors work unit experience premium
§ Modified shift differential to $.01, $.02, $.03 (I, II, III, V, T/S, Sim Techs)
§ Elimination of weekend differential (I, II, V, at AFW, TUL, MCI)
§ Elimination of midnight skill retention premium (Sim Techs)
§ Training pay at straight time for off shift and day off (I, II)
§ Elimination of penalty lunch payment (I, II, III, IV, V)
§ Elimination of OT meal allowance (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S)
§ Penalty hours pay for actual time worked @ 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S)
§ Reduce OT rate from 2x to 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V)
§ Work 40 hrs to reach OT rate for day off overtime (III, V)
§ Elimination of debrief pay (T/S)
§ Elimination of Stock Clerk driver premium
§ Elimination of AMT premiums when displacing OSM employee
§ Elimination of Early Call-In guarantees (I, II, III, IV)
§ Elimination of short turn penalty due to shift bids (Art 21 d) (III, IV)
§ Elimination of CC premium when not working as CC (III,V)
Work Rules/ Other changes and effective dates:
Effective April 15, 2003:
§ Combine Systems/Structures into Generals (Title I)
§ Added 7 day labor loan provision (Bases only)
§ Increased AMT productivity through multiple work assignments/training
§ Holidays reduced from 10 to 5. The five (5) observed holidays will be: New Year’s Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, and Christmas Day (all groups)
o Holidays- 5 days with roll @ 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S, Sim Techs)
o Holidays- 5 days (no roll) @ 1.5x (Disp, Metro, Instrs)
Effective May 1, 2003
§ Reduce annual SK accrual to 5 days @ 100% (all except I & II)
§ Reduce annual SK accrual to 5 days, 1st two at 50% (I & II)
Effective May 3, 2003
§ 4/10s at Overhaul docks/TUL, duration of agreement
Effective within sixty (60) days of ratification:
§ Outsource RON/Ultraclean (II/III)
§ One time System protection credit for headcount reductions realized from work rule changes (all groups except Metro)
Effective thirty (30) days from ratification:
§ Reduce uniform provisioning and eliminate laundering (I, II, III, IV, V)
§ Outsource stores function at HDQ (6 Stock Clerks)
§ Relocate 4 Stock Clerks at ORD/GEM to ORD/M & E hanger
Effective as soon as practicable after DOS:
§ Change work schedule to 5 on, 2 off (T/S)
§ Reduced VC accrual one week (all groups)
§ Modify Crew Chief ratios:
AMT- 1:11.5
FSC- 1:9
Fuelers- eliminated ratio
Stores- 1:12
Benefits:
§ Medical & Dental plan modifications (all groups) Effective 1/1/04
§ SLOA Benefit Coverage reduced from 24 to12 months (all groups)
Effective 5/01/03
§ Eliminate STD Plan (all groups) Effective 1/1/04
§ Discontinue subsidized medical benefits RIF’d employees (all groups)
Effective 4/15/03
§ Modify IOD to 10 days (all groups) Effective 5/01/03 with the following transition:
o If the injury was incurred prior to 4/15/03, remaining applicable salary continuation through the end of the month up to the current 80 days
o If the injury is incurred on 4/15/03 or before 4/30/03, salary continuation for 10 days up to the current 80 days
o If the injury is incurred after 5/01/03, salary continuation for 10 days
Sincerely,
James B. Weel
Managing Director
Employee Relations
Agreed to this date:
________________________________
James C Little
Transport Workers Union, AFL-CIO
Bob, do you actually believe what you write? you want us to believe the threat you are suggesting? You of all people know the membership is only as strong as the leaders! You have been tearing down the members of local 562 for so long you have lost site!
Tearing down the members of Local 562? What are you talking about? It is you that tells the members that they are unworthy and should accept paycuts and consider themselves lucky to have a job. I say that we are worth more and should fight for it. Management does not consider affordability when they determine their own pay packages.
The members are the Union! You can tell when you have a strong officer or a weak one!
Yes And I'm sure that we are all proud to have Randy McDonald as the most powerful elected? officer in the AA ATD. He is such a great spokesman and his intellectual capabilities are reassuring (to the company and Jim Little that is)
I have never suggested that either the line or bases are superior to either! And I also believe (cola) should be negotiated!
Oh really, you never threw out that Tulsa was the majority, in other words nobody else mattered? Tulsa did not block Colas or regional pay? Steve Gukelberger, the negotiator from Stores was just talking about that the other day how the Tulsa reps said "Well if its so expensive then move to Tulsa, you aint gonna get more than us". Are you saying that you did not suport Randy McDonald attempt to strip away line pay or the MRT to give the bases another paid day off?
In fact, I supported the flex starting rates negoitiated in the past!
You would. You would agree to allow the company to, at its sole discretion, determine which stations start at a higher rate than others. So it doesnt matter what the cost of living, only the ability of the company to get employees to show up. What kind of union man are you that you would favor such a sham as "Flex rates" that puts the union in the position of having to beg for a decent starting rate, and if the starting rate is too low then doesnt it follow that the top rate should be adjusted also?
Change from within is achiveable but not to the extent you and others wanted! divide and conquer is not the answer!
Well at least you now admit it. There will be no meaningful change from within. Thats what Sonny said in Pittsburg this past Sept. The TWU and morons like you have divided this membership with your arrogant majority attitude that nobody elses needs matter but yours. With AMFA we hope to repair the damage that the TWU has done to our profession.
I believe anyone reading what you are writing can see exactly what I have been writing about! Suggesting Amfa cares about all is a joke, all you have to do is read the last 2 contracts they negotiated and you can see what they are doing away with! I suggest you go and become educated about amfa and then come back and discuss it!
I suggest that you become educated. AMFA cares about promoting the profession. They are accountable to the members. They negotiated the biggest increase ever for mechanics, all mechanics benifitted from the gains AMFA achieved with their very first contract at NWA.
What special interest does the TWU have in mechanics? None. They will represent anyone who can fork over two hours pay per month. What say do members have in the direction of the union? None, even the courts said that Sonny Hall controls the union, not the members or their representatives when they ruled that the Presidents council had no authority to challenge Sonny Halls decision to split up Locals. This union only cares about one thing-increasing dues, and they have chosen the easy path of seeking volume instead of quality. They have enterred into cozy relationships with employers in many industries and sold out the members where ever they go. Isnt it true that the TWU has been decertified by membership vote at several locations-I know for a fact that this has happened in Local 504.
The fact is that this union is run by unaccountable dictators who only care about making themselves rich off our dues. They dont care about the members and as long as they are in control, and we have no way of removing them from control of the TWU, our wages will continbue to decline.
Any one reading these posts can see how you make unsubstatiated claims, refuse to reply when challenged and often simply take AMFA gripes about the TWU and plug in AMFA. Is this all done under the advice of the PR firm you hired? "You guys cant go head to head on a debate and come out on the winning side so your best strategy is to create as much confusion and disinformation as possible because during times of uncertainty and confusion most people simply choose to stay put"?
The one fact that you cant deny is that when mechanics negotiate for their seperate contracts, during seperate negotiations the comparasion and the debate centers around what other airlines pay their mechanics. It does not center on Fleet, or any other department. So in effect the rate that we will get is to a large degree determined by what other mechanics negotiate, more so than what other TWU members negotiate. That was shown clearly in the 2001 contract. So with that in mind doesnt it makes sense, putting aside all the other arguements about accountablity and transparancy, that all mechanics should be on the same page, in the same union, striving for the same goals?Isnt this the basic definition of what a union is? A combination of persons in pursuit of mutual goals and interests?
Doesnt the TWUs goal of increasing the number of dues payers at the expense of wages and benifits conflict with our desire to maximize our pay and benifits? Are we supposed to be martyrs to the cause of making Sonny and the other International officers rich at our own expense? You may consider this a worthy cause. possibly you may have or have attained International aspirations. However I do not feel that thousands upon thousands of workers should sacrifice for the good of the few at the top of the union heirarchy.
AMFA is a union where the members determine the objectives of the organization, not a few dictators in the International.
As far as my earlier post being a threat it was not meant as such. As you said, it was something to ponder. We must explore any possible path that the company may take and plan our response in advance. That would be something completely new to the TWU who only looks at and reports the scenario that supports their goals of having us work for less so they can get more members.
Tearing down the members of Local 562? What are you talking about? It is you that tells the members that they are unworthy and should accept paycuts and consider themselves lucky to have a job. I say that we are worth more and should fight for it. Management does not consider affordability when they determine their own pay packages.
The members are the Union! You can tell when you have a strong officer or a weak one!
Yes And I'm sure that we are all proud to have Randy McDonald as the most powerful elected? officer in the AA ATD. He is such a great spokesman and his intellectual capabilities are reassuring (to the company and Jim Little that is)
I have never suggested that either the line or bases are superior to either! And I also believe (cola) should be negotiated!
Oh really, you never threw out that Tulsa was the majority, in other words nobody else mattered? Tulsa did not block Colas or regional pay? Steve Gukelberger, the negotiator from Stores was just talking about that the other day how the Tulsa reps said "Well if its so expensive then move to Tulsa, you aint gonna get more than us". Are you saying that you did not suport Randy McDonald attempt to strip away line pay or the MRT to give the bases another paid day off?
In fact, I supported the flex starting rates negoitiated in the past!
You would. You would agree to allow the company to, at its sole discretion, determine which stations start at a higher rate than others. So it doesnt matter what the cost of living, only the ability of the company to get employees to show up. What kind of union man are you that you would favor such a sham as "Flex rates" that puts the union in the position of having to beg for a decent starting rate, and if the starting rate is too low then doesnt it follow that the top rate should be adjusted also?
Change from within is achiveable but not to the extent you and others wanted! divide and conquer is not the answer!
Well at least you now admit it. There will be no meaningful change from within. Thats what Sonny said in Pittsburg this past Sept. The TWU and morons like you have divided this membership with your arrogant majority attitude that nobody elses needs matter but yours. With AMFA we hope to repair the damage that the TWU has done to our profession.
I believe anyone reading what you are writing can see exactly what I have been writing about! Suggesting Amfa cares about all is a joke, all you have to do is read the last 2 contracts they negotiated and you can see what they are doing away with! I suggest you go and become educated about amfa and then come back and discuss it!
I suggest that you become educated. AMFA cares about promoting the profession. They are accountable to the members. They negotiated the biggest increase ever for mechanics, all mechanics benifitted from the gains AMFA achieved with their very first contract at NWA.
What special interest does the TWU have in mechanics? None. They will represent anyone who can fork over two hours pay per month. What say do members have in the direction of the union? None, even the courts said that Sonny Hall controls the union, not the members or their representatives when they ruled that the Presidents council had no authority to challenge Sonny Halls decision to split up Locals. This union only cares about one thing-increasing dues, and they have chosen the easy path of seeking volume instead of quality. They have enterred into cozy relationships with employers in many industries and sold out the members where ever they go. Isnt it true that the TWU has been decertified by membership vote at several locations-I know for a fact that this has happened in Local 504.
The fact is that this union is run by unaccountable dictators who only care about making themselves rich off our dues. They dont care about the members and as long as they are in control, and we have no way of removing them from control of the TWU, our wages will continbue to decline.
Any one reading these posts can see how you make unsubstatiated claims, refuse to reply when challenged and often simply take AMFA gripes about the TWU and plug in AMFA. Is this all done under the advice of the PR firm you hired? "You guys cant go head to head on a debate and come out on the winning side so your best strategy is to create as much confusion and disinformation as possible because during times of uncertainty and confusion most people simply choose to stay put"?
The one fact that you cant deny is that when mechanics negotiate for their seperate contracts, during seperate negotiations the comparasion and the debate centers around what other airlines pay their mechanics. It does not center on Fleet, or any other department. So in effect the rate that we will get is to a large degree determined by what other mechanics negotiate, more so than what other TWU members negotiate. That was shown clearly in the 2001 contract. So with that in mind doesnt it makes sense, putting aside all the other arguements about accountablity and transparancy, that all mechanics should be on the same page, in the same union, striving for the same goals?Isnt this the basic definition of what a union is? A combination of persons in pursuit of mutual goals and interests?
Doesnt the TWUs goal of increasing the number of dues payers at the expense of wages and benifits conflict with our desire to maximize our pay and benifits? Are we supposed to be martyrs to the cause of making Sonny and the other International officers rich at our own expense? You may consider this a worthy cause. possibly you may have or have attained International aspirations. However I do not feel that thousands upon thousands of workers should sacrifice for the good of the few at the top of the union heirarchy.
AMFA is a union where the members determine the objectives of the organization, not a few dictators in the International.
As far as my earlier post being a threat it was not meant as such. As you said, it was something to ponder. We must explore any possible path that the company may take and plan our response in advance. That would be something completely new to the TWU who only looks at and reports the scenario that supports their goals of having us work for less so they can get more members.
James T. Kirk
Senior
- Apr 9, 2003
- 301
- 0
Well at least you now admit it. There will be no meaningful change from within. Thats what Sonny said in Pittsburg this past Sept. The TWU and morons like you have divided this membership with your arrogant majority attitude that nobody elses needs matter but yours. With AMFA we hope to repair the damage that the TWU has done to our profession.
So Bob you are telling us that you advocate minority rule?
So Bob you are telling us that you advocate minority rule?
