SJU lays off 400

[aafsc]

<_< ----- Hello aa! It seems most people have you pegged!----- Oh, I'm always grateful for what I get! But make no mistake about it! What I get is what I've earned! ------ Our retirement with AA started in 2002! One year "after" the merger/buyout! The first year, we were still TWAllc. And were not credited towards retirement! So you see, whatever retirement we receive from AA is "earned", not given! And that my friend, was part of the "BINDING" in "ARBITRATION!" That's the main reason I'm not too concerned about a large RIF here at MCI this time. We "earn" our keep! And AA recognizes that! And friend, that's the best protection you can have!!!! But!---- Like the man said, "anythings possible!"

You're right. You earned your AA pension benefits just like everyone else at AA. But AA's purchase of TWA's assets MADE IT POSSIBLE for you and the thousands of other TWAers to earn those benefits.

 

[MCI transplant]

You're right. You earned your AA pension benefits just like everyone else at AA. But AA's purchase of TWA's assets MADE IT POSSIBLE for you and the thousands of other TWAers to earn those benefits.

<_< ------- "Thousands"? Thousands where?------ There were 29,000 TWA employees at time of merger/buyout! There are, maybe, 900 here at MCI today, a couple hundred at STL, maybe another couple hundred throughout the system. Then there are the F/A's, and a hand full of pilots! Far from thousands!!! And where did they all go??? :huh: ------------ Enough of this B.S.!!!!!

 

[eolesen]

Given the future bond liability for AFW, and MCI being mostly rent paid plus a few improvements, I'd have to agree that jettisoning AFW would do more for AMR's balance sheet.

It's also the most likely to be marketable to someone else looking to insource. With fuel prices being what they are, outsourcing to Asia is starting to become a more expensive proposition. Likewise with having to ship rotables and consumables to the outsourcing depots. I could see a situation unfolding where AFW starts to look more and more attractive to the foreign based MRO's or an airline like FDX who might benefit from insourcing.

 

[Hopeful]

Given the future bond liability for AFW, and MCI being mostly rent paid plus a few improvements, I'd have to agree that jettisoning AFW would do more for AMR's balance sheet.

It's also the most likely to be marketable to someone else looking to insource. With fuel prices being what they are, outsourcing to Asia is starting to become a more expensive proposition. Likewise with having to ship rotables and consumables to the outsourcing depots. I could see a situation unfolding where AFW starts to look more and more attractive to the foreign based MRO's or an airline like FDX who might benefit from insourcing.

I predict further scaling back at MCIE and AFW becoming the exlusive MRO base for AA. Remember the new hangar being built at TULSA.

 

[FWAAA]

<_< ----- Hello aa! It seems most people have you pegged!----- Oh, I'm always grateful for what I get! But make no mistake about it! What I get is what I've earned! ------ Our retirement with AA started in 2002! One year "after" the merger/buyout! The first year, we were still TWAllc. And were not credited towards retirement! So you see, whatever retirement we receive from AA is "earned", not given! And that my friend, was part of the "BINDING" in "ARBITRATION!" That's the main reason I'm not too concerned about a large RIF here at MCI this time. We "earn" our keep! And AA recognizes that! And friend, that's the best protection you can have!!!! But!---- Like the man said, "anythings possible!"

You got no credit toward retirement during the first year? Seriously? TWA, LLC was a wholly owned subsidiary of American Airlines, Inc. - weren't your pay and benefits the same as the nAAtives?

 

[The Goose]

I predict further scaling back at MCIE and AFW becoming the exlusive MRO base for AA. Remember the new hangar being built at TULSA.

That's not a hanger - it's an overgrown tent.

 

[aafsc]

<_< ------- "Thousands"? Thousands where?------ There were 29,000 TWA employees at time of merger/buyout! There are, maybe, 900 here at MCI today, a couple hundred at STL, maybe another couple hundred throughout the system. Then there are the F/A's, and a hand full of pilots! Far from thousands!!! And where did they all go??? :huh: ------------ Enough of this B.S.!!!!!

YES THOUSANDS! Like a drama queen, you vastly overstate the number of TWA employees at the time of the transaction while you vastly understate the numbers currently at AA. There were about 21,000 total TWA employees (domestic and international) at TWA's death; not 29,000. The number of TWA employees at AA according to the jetnet seniority lists are as follows:

Title 1, AMT 1026
Title 2, facility/auto mechanics 256
Title 3 ramp, 1039
Title 5 stock clerks 152
Tech specs 7
Dispatchers 17
Flight simulator techs 3

Total TWU represented 2500

It should be noted that there are people with less than 4/10/01 seniority (meaning junior to TWA) in just about all title groups; meaning that many more TWAers could be working if they were willing to relocate.

Also from the jetnet seniority lists the number of reservation, ticket agents, and related are 774.

Since the rest of the groups are not listed on jetnet one can only estimate the number of pilots, F/As, and management, clerical and support.

F/As, with all the recalls I estimate that there are around 800 ex-TWA F/As at AA.

Pilots, according to airlinepilot central.com 828 pilots have been recalled by AA and 774 have deferred recall. Adding these 828 (more than likely mostly ex-TWA) to those that never got furloughed, I estimate about 1,000 ex-TWA pilots at AA.

As for management, clerical, and support I would estimate about 1,000.

In summation: 2500
774
800
1000
1000

Total 6,074 approximate number of ex-TWA currently at AA.

Don't forget many have since retired from AA and some went over to Eagle.

These are the numbers so quit crying.

 

[MCI transplant]

You got no credit toward retirement during the first year? Seriously? TWA, LLC was a wholly owned subsidiary of American Airlines, Inc. - weren't your pay and benefits the same as the nAAtives?

<_< ------ No they weren't! Durring that year as TWAllc, we worked under our old IAM contract, and payscale!!!

 

[eolesen]

As for management, clerical, and support I would estimate about 1,000.

From a report I saw in mid 2006, there were 160 former TW folks in Res, and 733 agents. Today, you say there are 774, which is around 15% retirement rate from two years ago.

In 2006, there were 450 in management, and 110 in clerical/support. Of the managers, 260 were in DCS, 175 in M&E, and 15 in Cargo. 40 of the clerical/support were in M&E.

Let's assume management/specialist retirements/resignations also ran around 10-15%. That would imply around 490 to 520 in management today. Not a huge difference from your estimate of 1000, but there are too many people here prone to splitting hairs...

 

[MCI transplant]

From a report I saw in mid 2006, there were 160 former TW folks in Res, and 733 agents. Today, you say there are 774, which is around 15% retirement rate from two years ago.

In 2006, there were 450 in management, and 110 in clerical/support. Of the managers, 260 were in DCS, 175 in M&E, and 15 in Cargo. 40 of the clerical/support were in M&E.

Let's assume management/specialist retirements/resignations also ran around 10-15%. That would imply around 490 to 520 in management today. Not a huge difference from your estimate of 1000, but there are too many people here prone to splitting hairs...

<_< ------Let's assume his numbers are correct! Compared to the "21,000", at time of merger/buyout, the figure he uses, 6,074, that's more than 14,000 gone. Now that's in six and a half years! Where did they all go? aa suggests that they all refused to relocate! But under Kasher's ruling, where are they going to relocate too? ------ 14,000, 14,000!!!??? I don't believe that number would be considered "splitting hairs!"

 

[eolesen]

At the time of the report I'm referring to, 65% of the former TW employees were at or above 50. I can't imagine relocating at that age, even with seniority.

Also... It showed the number of active employees at TW being around 17,900 as of date of acquisition. (Approx 40,300 employees were loaded into the AA employee databases, and 22,400 had retirement dates prior to 4/10/2001).

That's a pretty big gap between the 21,000 aafsc claims, and the 29,000 that others claim.

How many TW employees already on furlough as of 4/10/2001?

 

[Veritas]

How many TW employees already on furlough as of 4/10/2001?

Probably none. TWA was still training new pilots and flight attendants at the time.

 

[MCI transplant]

Probably none. TWA was still training new pilots and flight attendants at the time.

<_< ------ Thank you!!!

 

[MCI transplant]

At the time of the report I'm referring to, 65% of the former TW employees were at or above 50. I can't imagine relocating at that age, even with seniority.

Also... It showed the number of active employees at TW being around 17,900 as of date of acquisition. (Approx 40,300 employees were loaded into the AA employee databases, and 22,400 had retirement dates prior to 4/10/2001).

That's a pretty big gap between the 21,000 aafsc claims, and the 29,000 that others claim.

How many TW employees already on furlough as of 4/10/2001?

<_< ------ 65% 50 or above? That's "interesting" that your report even references age! Why should it Eolesen?----- Interesting!!! I can't imagine relocating at that age either!

 

[AMFAMAN]

Also... It showed the number of active employees at TW being around 17,900 as of date of acquisition. (Approx 40,300 employees were loaded into the AA employee databases, and 22,400 had retirement dates prior to 4/10/2001).

TWA-LLC
Mechanics and Related 3,272
Fleet Service 3,082
Stock Clerks 316
Dispatchers 51
Simulator Technicians 20
Instructors 10
Flight Deck Crew Members 2,243
Flight Attendants 4,055

Total unionized 13,049

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2002/29n036.html

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2002/29n040.html

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2002/29n043.html