Sign Up for a Chance to Show Your Support in Washington D.C. for the US Airways and American Merger!

[EastUS1]

US Airways and American Airlines only wanted 300 participants ......

Yeah...Sure thing. It's reassuring that you must have set the whole thing up and thus know that to be a "fact"...? Thanks for the Joke of the Day. No matter really. I'm certain they must have simply said to the countless thousands so eager to be present that they just didn't want them showing up. After all; what have massive crowds rallying in DC ever accomplished anyway?

 

[cltrat]

US Airways and American Airlines only wanted 300 participants with over 300 small group meetings held with Senate and House representatives during the two-day event. In addition, labor leaders (except the IAM who is being left out of the party) met with Asst. AG for Antitrust Bill Baer and Deputy Asst. David Gelfand a few blocks from the Capital Building and Congressional offices.

The rally was largely symbolic and not the primary objective.

US Airways and American Airlines are interested in obtaining a settlement that will meet Justice Department concerns and permit the current POR to proceed as described in the Disclosure Statement.

you might want to change that to the IAM and it's members were not involved by choice, Contract before merger.

 

[700UW]

US Airways and American Airlines only wanted 300 participants with over 300 small group meetings held with Senate and House representatives during the two-day event. In addition, labor leaders (except the IAM who is being left out of the party) met with Asst. AG for Antitrust Bill Baer and Deputy Asst. David Gelfand a few blocks from the Capital Building and Congressional offices.

The rally was largely symbolic and not the primary objective.

US Airways and American Airlines are interested in obtaining a settlement that will meet Justice Department concerns and permit the current POR to proceed as described in the Disclosure Statement.

Spreading more lies Chip?

The IAM has no interest in helping a company who went behind its own employees' backs and negotiated with unions and employees who dont even work for US Airways, while neglecting its own employees and negotiations.

IAM all three groups, over two years of negotiations, no CBA, USAPA, eight years no CBA, AFA took eight years and CWA two years and no agreement.

Go run along, Doug needs his car washed, go take care of it for him.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Spreading more lies Chip?

The IAM has no interest in helping a company who went behind its own employees' backs and negotiated with unions and employees who dont even work for US Airways, while neglecting its own employees and negotiations.

IAM all three groups, over two years of negotiations, no CBA, USAPA, eight years no CBA, AFA took eight years and CWA two years and no agreement.

Go run along, Doug needs his car washed, go take care of it for him.

Violating message board rules again? Keep advocating a view that increases other employee profit sharing checks. Extortion never works. And, insults show a person's real maturity.

 

[700UW]

You are truly delusional.

There is no extortion, you know libel and slander on an internet message board is enforceable.

No wonder why your own union disavowed you.

The sky isnt falling chicken little.

You insult more people by your lies and misinformation than anyone on this board.

Keep up with the lies.

And why dont you show the whole board how the IAM is extorting US, oh wait, you cant, cause your lying again.

Extortion (also called shakedown, outwresting, and exaction) is a criminal offense of obtaining money, property, or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion. Refraining from doing harm is sometimes euphemistically called protection. Extortion is commonly practiced by organized crime groups. The actual obtainment of money or property is not required to commit the offense. Making a threat of violence which refers to a requirement of a payment of money or property to halt future violence is sufficient to commit the offense. Exaction refers not only to extortion or the unlawful demanding and obtaining of something through force,[sup][1][/sup] but additionally, in its formal definition, means the infliction of something such as pain and suffering or making somebody endure something unpleasant.[sup][2][/sup]
Extortion is distinguished from robbery. In robbery, whether armed or not, the offender takes property from the victim by the immediate use of force or fear that force will be immediately used (as in the classic line, "Your money or your life.") Extortion, which is not limited to the taking of property, involves the verbal or written instillation of fear that something will happen to the victim if he or she does not comply with the extortionist's will. Another key distinction is that extortion always involves a verbal or written threat, whereas robbery does not. In United States federal law, extortion can be committed with or without the use of force and with or without the use of a weapon.
In Blackmail, which always involves extortion, the extortionist threatens to reveal information about a victim or his family members that is potentially embarrassing, socially damaging, or incriminating unless a demand for money, property, or services is met.
The term extortion is often used euphemistically to refer to usury or to price-gouging, though neither is legally considered extortion. It is also often used loosely to refer to everyday situations where one person feels indebted against their will, to another, in order to receive an essential service or avoid legal consequences.
Neither extortion nor blackmail require a threat of a criminal act, such as violence, merely a threat used to elicit actions, money, or property from the object of the extortion. Such threats include the filing of reports (true or not) of criminal behavior to the police, revelation of damaging facts (such as pictures of the object of the extortion in a compromising position), etc.

 

[USA320Pilot]

You are truly delusional.

There is no extortion, you know libel and slander on an internet message board is enforceable.

No wonder why your own union disavowed you.

The sky isnt falling chicken little.

You insult more people by your lies and misinformation than anyone on this board.

Keep up with the lies.

And why dont you show the whole board how the IAM is extorting US, oh wait, you cant, cause your lying again.

This is a rational response and one worth discussing... Keep supporting an approach that builds other people's profit sharing checks and income.

In fact, by the IAM not supporting the merger maybe management may decide one way to offset any antitrust carve outs that lower revenue from those projected in AMR's POR and approved by the creditors in the Disclosure Statement could be partially funded by the IAM and its members remaining on their current contract(s) through the use of the management friendly RLA. Would management ever think of something like this?

How ironic that would be...

But, as I have indicated before, this is the union and their member's choice.

 

[robbedagain]

usa320.. how would you pilots feel if you had no contract and then mgmt went behind your backs negogiated a back room door buster deals before negogiating with your union would your response be to continue to support the same donkeys who left their stalls to talk with anthr airline n their union or support the same donkeys who cant leave their stall..... as far as im concerned we the iam group have no profit sharing we have the pension of course its been a hot issue on here. but the fact is im one of many iam members who refuse and will continue to refuse to support those same flippin donkeys that refuse to negogiate with the iam that went behind our backs the only groups that will make out the most are you pilots the fas the donkeys with their share holder owners thats all

 

[USA320Pilot]

usa320.. how would you pilots feel if you had no contract and then mgmt went behind your backs negogiated a back room door buster deals before negogiating with your union would your response be to continue to support the same donkeys who left their stalls to talk with anthr airline n their union or support the same donkeys who cant leave their stall..... as far as im concerned we the iam group have no profit sharing we have the pension of course its been a hot issue on here. but the fact is im one of many iam members who refuse and will continue to refuse to support those same flippin donkeys that refuse to negogiate with the iam that went behind our backs the only groups that will make out the most are you pilots the fas the donkeys with their share holder owners thats all

Robbed,

I don't disagree with you that IAM members deserve a new contract. I believe the approach being used is "old school" and encourages management to not reach a TA. We have all heard the phrase "if you scratch my back I will scratch your back."

If the IAM would support management's strategic plan (the proposed merger), which would provide the Company more funds to pay employees, then I believe the IAM would obtain a new deal sooner.

I hope a TA that is mutually beneficial is obtained. I just believe using an extortion technique will fail because management can never give in to this type of negotiating tactic (used by any group -- not just the IAM) because contracts would cost too much and management would never then get a deal.

 

[robbedagain]

how is it old school tech that the iam uses by not supporting.. to me and this is strictly my honest opin if those donkeys truly wanted the support from the largest union on the property they should have negogiated deals with us even if its say 2 yr deal that brings us and the mechs n related up to par with aa which has ch11 contracts.... secondly how is it those donkeys can leave their stalls to make deals with aa unions that to me is extortion when these donkeys have a proven track record 8 plus yrs for fa.s pilots well we all know that crap and 2 plus yrs of negogiations yet nothing and they go behind our backs to get anthr airline union to support.... that sound extortion to me... compared to the iam version of extortion..

700 thanks for the def of extortion

 

[700UW]

Still waiting for your explanation how the IAM is extorting the company.

Come on company man, lets read it.

But you will you make up more lies.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Still waiting for your explanation how the IAM is extorting the company.

Come on company man, lets read it.

But you will you make up more lies.

I only promptly respond to respectful people and not people who insult others and then hide behind a computer screen, which I believe is cowardly.

In my opinion, if two parties scratch each other's back and work together they can reach common ground earlier. But, if a union tries to extort or blackmail the company, especially US Airways, then the company will dig their heels in and use the RLA to their advantage. If a union and its rank-and-file wants to pursue this approach that's their choice, which I wholeheartedly support.

But, history as shown this only leads to drawn out negotiations because management cannot and will not give into this tactic or they would never get a contract. Doug Parker has made this point abundantly clear in Crew News sessions.

In my opinion, the only thing the union's extortion or the blackmail approach does it economically hurt its members and benefits the company and other employee groups.

700UW, I have two questions for you. If my comments are inaccurate and I don't know what I'm talking about than why worry about what I write? Why not just ignore me?

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

P.S. I'm more than willing to have respectful debate and dialogue to help improve people's lives. What I'm not willing to do is be involved with disrespectful people and participate with people in a sewer.

 

[700UW]

Once again you have posted lies, lies and more lies.

Sucks that you got called out again on it, now doesnt it?

We have all ready been negotiating for two years, one more session finally next month, then on to strike.

Who is gonna fix your plane?

 

[USA320Pilot]

700UW,

Once again you have posted lies, lies and more lies.

Sucks that you got called out again on it, now doesnt it?

We have all ready been negotiating for two years, one more session finally next month, then on to strike.

Who is gonna fix your plane?

700UW,

I'm not sure what you're talking about and your personal attack. It sounds to me like you're more scared than anything else. Furthermore, it regard to your comment that "one more session finally next month, then on to strike" that might be a little premature. Here's how collective bargaining works:

Under the RLA, collective bargaining agreements remain in force indefinitely until the parties agree to change them. Without a contract expiration date, negotiators do not work against a fixed deadline. Instead, they proceed through various steps, including compulsory mediation, designed to encourage negotiated settlements. Neither side can engage in “self-help” – a labor strike or a unilateral implementation of management terms – until these steps have been exhausted. The negotiations usually proceed as follows:

1. Both sides serve proposed changes to collective bargaining agreements in the form of a “Section 6 Notice” (so-named for the section of the RLA in which it’s defined).
   
2. Freight railroads and airlines employing more than 90 percent of unionized workers in the industry bargain on a multi-employer basis. Their representative, the National Carriers’ Conference Committee (NCCC), bargains with the national representatives of the unions.
   
3. Bargaining talks continue until the parties reach agreement, or either side breaks off negotiations or requests mediation under the auspices of the National Mediation Board (NMB). The NMB also has authority to proffer mediation on its own.
   
4. Once in mediation, the NMB controls the schedule of talks and the timing of release from mediation. There is no time limit to mediation. The goal of the NMB is to assist the parties in reaching agreement without resorting to self-help.
   
5. If the NMB is unable to help the parties reach an agreement, it will offer binding arbitration, which either party may reject. If arbitration is rejected, a “cooling off” period must be maintained for 30 days.
   
6. During this 30-day period or thereafter, the NMB may determine that the dispute threatens interstate commerce. It will then notify the President of the United States, who may appoint a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB) to investigate the dispute and recommend solutions. In these circumstances, PEBs have almost always been appointed in national rail disputes.
   
7. If the President does not appoint a PEB, the parties may exercise self-help at the end of the 30-day cooling off period.
   
8. If a PEB is appointed, it has 30 days to investigate the dispute and report its finding. Its recommendations are not binding, although they often lead to settlements.
   
9. There is one final statutory cooling off period for 30 days after the PEB’s report is issued to give the parties further time to reach agreement before self-help is permitted.

In the 80-plus years since the RLA’s enactment, most rail labor negotiations have resulted in voluntary, peaceful settlements. However, Congress has stepped in to prevent or terminate crippling strikes following exhaustion of RLA procedures. Congressional measures have included additional cooling off periods to continue negotiations, implementation of PEB recommendations, and compulsory arbitration.

700UW, there are quit a few steps before a union can strike. Furthermore, the company would have the right to "lock out" striking employees and use replacement workers or contractors. I wonder how long IAM members would go during a lock out without pay and benefits?

As I said before I'm more than willing to have respectful debate and dialogue to help improve people's lives. What I'm not willing to do is be involved with disrespectful people and participate with people in sewer. I hope that makes sense.

Best of luck to you. I hope it works out, but I have a strong feeling you're in for more disappointment with the strategy you endorse.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

Are you that ignorant?

I know how it works, I lived it and been a member of the negotiating committee before.

Your lies and scare tactics wont work on me.

And we have been on strike before, and you and your pilots made a sweetheart deal with the company not to honor the picket line, at least the AFA had to be ordered to work.

Try again.

 

[ChockJockey]

As far as I can tell this management has never bought into the logic of "you scratch our back we'll scratch yours", rather, I think it's more along the lines of "you get what you negotiate". Well, they don't want to negotiate, so why should we give them anything?

These people only understand to extract the most at the lowest cost, they're quite good at it and are well compensated for doing so. They'd be thrilled to have their IAM employees descending en mass on the DOJ and Congress to clamor for the merger, but it wouldn't budge them an inch nearer towards wanting to negotiate in good faith when better cost savings are realized by keeping labor in the old contracts for as long as absolutely possible.

Yes, the merger could provide significant improvements in wages and benefits for those employees who survive it, but nobody's naive enough to think they'll simply be granted; a JCBA will have to be negotiated, and again management will drag them out for as long as possible, as doing so is and historically has been the most profitable course of action.

This is simply one rat's opinion.