Siegel Article

[RowUnderDCA]

Clue and Pit-

I disagree. That's the EXACT problem. Our society's increasing differential in how we recompense differing kinds of labor and "inside" capital v. "outside" capital is why things are falling apart. Those with lots of resources and lots of political and economic power never really DO lose big.

Maybe one day in the storied days of American industrialism this was true, but I don't think it is anymore.

For some reasons, those that risks huge amounts of other people's money or a major commitment of other people's lives DON'T seem to REALLY pay big for it.

What, is there some kind of corporate suite 'shunning' program that I'm not aware of.

It's the little investor that gets the shaft.

And as regard to the peculiar system of labor valuation in the airline industry, it's extremely arbitrary and increasingly rare for those to make it to the top of their field (reaching the top of your seniority at an airline that doesn't go bankrupt of merge.. as though a job applicant could figure that out) Once at the top, those with resources and power do EXACTLY what the capitalists do: preserve their position of preference by whatever means possible, increasing the divergence between the lucky, powerful haves and the unlucky, disempowered have-nots.

This is going on all over this country, it's just MOST pronounced in the airline industry... maybe health care, too (large divergence between winners and losers)

Hey, I do agree that government should NOT make everybody happy, but we should preserve a system that primes the middle-class consumer economy and limits people opting out of the system because it's so arbitrary.

Here's hoping all our kids make ALL THE RIGHT CHOICES for their futures.

 

[Oliver Twist]

[blockquote]
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On 1/31/2003 9:36:44 PM Do_it_for_Dave wrote:

Forbes Magazine
Wage Slasher
Thursday January 30, 6:34 pm ET
By Mark Tatge

With help from a Chapter 11 filing, DAVE SIEGEL persuaded $336,000-a-year airline pilots to take huge pay cuts.

The pay-cutting started in July when US Airways was awaiting word on its $1 billion federal loan guarantee application. First officers on A330 jets were cut from $229,000 to $143,000; on Boeing 737s, from $152,000 to $111,000. ----------------
[/blockquote]

Chip, I have to ask. Are these numbers real? Did a Capt on a 330 really make 336K ??? and a F/O 229k on the 330 and 152k or a 737?? Is this true??

I realize these are pre-cut numbers and I want to make sure they are accurate.

I just want to know if they are true Chip. It's not from any sort of envy that I want to know and I suppose I will get flamed by every Pilot on the board, but I want a truthful answer. Is it true? Did you guys make that level of pay before the cuts?

If it is true I can see why you are grumbling so much. I would not want to see my pay cut from 152K to 111K or 229K to 143K either. But I do think, if I made that much to begin with, I would not be so shocked that the company wanted so much from the Pilot group to begin with. They always go to the group who has the most money to begin with in any cutting situation.

I know you will be forth coming and answer my question Chip. Thanks in advance.

 

[Lucifer]

Tried to contact the editor of this article to enlighten him on a few things but all you get is his voice mail and some beeper number.
Come on, is he really that niave? Who couldn't turn an airline around after all the concessions he took off of labor groups. Why is this such an amazing acccomplishment? Anyone could do that, and for a lot cheaper salary. Is this all that Dave learned from going to Harvard?
And where does they get that he has won over the employees? Cookouts? I would like to know who he has won over and who would be having a cookout with him?

 

[Dea Certe]

Lucifer,

I would guess the menu at Dave's house will be cooked goose -- ours!

Dea

 

[a320av8r]

Attitude was the whole difference between USAir and Piedmont. It is also why Piedmont was so successful and USAir was floundering. It was the little things that made a huge difference. The employees were made to believe (and still believe) they were valuable to the operation of the airline. i.e. Being based in GSO at the time, we would show up for a deadhead to CLT and scheduling would ask if we could ferry an aircraft instead. We would do it gladly as a favor. At U we are told to fly it and paid extra. Which is more efficient?
We made less but were MUCH happier because we worked together and respected each other. I used to look forward to going to work. I understand PSA was pretty much the same. I'm still adjusting to that "cool northern efficiency" we were told soooo much about.

 

[diogenes]

[blockquote]
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On 2/9/2003 4:40:50 PM a320av8r wrote:

Attitude was the whole difference between USAir and Piedmont. It is also why Piedmont was so successful and USAir was floundering. It was the little things that made a huge difference. The employees were made to believe (and still believe) they were valuable to the operation of the airline. i.e. Being based in GSO at the time, we would show up for a deadhead to CLT and scheduling would ask if we could ferry an aircraft instead. We would do it gladly as a favor. At U we are told to fly it and paid extra. Which is more efficient?
We made less but were MUCH happier because we worked together and respected each other. I used to look forward to going to work. I understand PSA was pretty much the same. I'm still adjusting to that "cool northern efficiency" we were told soooo much about.
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[/blockquote]
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Attitude was a big difference.

Here are some more.

1. Did Mr. Davis or Mr. Howard EVER make a bone-headed business move? Did they ever make one that was just so-so? NO. CLT hub, DAY hub, BWI hub, Florida Shuttle, all successes. Not a Business Select or Metrojet in the bunch.

2. Move down a few ranks. What class of men were Leonard Martin, Eddie Jones, Sky Day, Dick James, Gene Sharp? As my history teacher used to ask, "compare and contrast." 'Nuff said!

3. Move down a few more ranks. Here's the caliber supervisors we had. Had a customer service supervisor who I never saw perform any fleet service duties. One foggy day, every a/c type in the inventory diverted to my station, where I had the operations duty. Had about a dozen weight and balance forms across the desk in various states of completion (pre-computer, when you actually had to understand the physics of flight) when this guy says, hit the ramp and give them a hand. I said ok, but I've got the complete 'picture' in my head now, and I hate to loose it. He said he'd finish the forms. Out the door I went. After it was all over, I thought, no way he got it all right, so I checked behind him. Not a single error, and this guy had been out of ops ten years. I later found out he covertly kept current every year, even though he was under no obligation to do so.

Now I have supes that can't find their a** with both hands.

4. And the employees. Friendly, we are family, and at the same time very agressive about promoting PI. Lot's of peer pressure to meet or exceed expectations - no slackers, please!

Loved it.