Siegel Article

[PITbull]

Capt.Chill,

I almost thought I was alone on this board.

Some of us have a profound understanding on just what has happened here to all of us. Thanks Chill.

Like I said, time will tell if this management will care for their employees and show good will. I plan on bothering them in 2005 when the bonuses roll around.

 

[PSA1979]

Braveheart,
I guess I should have said "Blue collar worker" instead of worker bee. I am not a "yes sir" person, I do not just do what I am told. In fact many of my friends look to me for guidance because I question everything.
I don't like it when people put words in my mouth without knowing exactly what I am thinking. I have never in my life just rolled over, not to management, or pilots, or cleaners. It takes all of us to run this airline, but only the top tier get to make the decisions. If we don't like what they do, this is America and we can quit or complain.
We are the workers of the world. Our numbers a huge, we include nurses, doctors, maids, waitresses, office workers, teachers, etc. We don't get to make policies nor are we paid to make them, that doesn't mean we just roll over and take it. But, there is only so much we can do. We are lucky to have Unions to help us, look at what our company did to the agents. But, we are not running this company, Dave Siegel is.
He might not be the best according to some, but since when did management listen to us and lower the CEO's salary. Since when did we get to pick who our bosses are, that is not in the scope of our Unions and it shouldn't be.
If you have an extra 850 million lying around, then you buy us and determine what the salaries will be. The cost must be brought down in order to survive. We are doing that now, but if the market has turned sour, then we stand to lose more. In case any of you hadn't noticed, US Airways is a business pure and simple, looking for ways to make a profit.
If you are ever on one of my flights as a passenger you will see a very professional flight attendant. who has the training to save your a** and perform CPR on you to boot.
I must have hit a raw nerve since you have decided to try and attack me personnaly. It won't work, I won't rise to the bait!

 

[Braveheart]

Lindy,

Your indoctrination of Seigel is just as ludicrous as worker bee’s is.

Correct, they should not be begrudged but they by far deserve no praise. Successful leaders do not make themselves better than their employees; they equal themselves.

If Seigel said, hey, I am willing to work for $100,000 per year, with the same medical and pension benefit package I offer you for this company to grow and guarantee your employment because I am concerned about you, your family and your future. These employees may not like it but they surly would understand it much better realizing he was doing the same thing he asked of his employees.

When USAirways entered the black, he would have no problem from any employee saying he was not worth his weight and gold because he took care of his troops first and NOT HIMSELF.

That professor you refer to is correct. You must have been daydreaming the other 40 minutes of class to hear why and what makes you worth that weight and gold. You are paid your worth if your value is balanced. Using scare tactics is dictatorship! Take a pay cuts or lose your job; pay your medical benefits or lose your job; give up these pension benefits or lose your job. What is Seigel giving up?

There is not a single employee in the world that does not have to make decisions everyday in their employment opportunities. He is no better than that pilot who must save 100 and some lives when landing that plane during a distress incident and all the other employees who are involved in crucial situations and everyday customer relations.

When you retire, as your cost of living increases, and your pension does not increase to balance your budget, look Seigel up and ask him if he will give you a cost of living adjustment. If not, don’t blame these people telling you whom you criticize, look in the mirror and you will find the reason.

 

[Braveheart]

PITbull,

You are not alone. Keep up the good work.

 

[Braveheart]

PSA:

The top tier does not dictate what your salary is. You voted on your salary, you voted on your pension benefits, you voted on your medical benefits. Your Union SIGNED a legal document that ALL parties must respect and honor for the duration it was written for.

Would Seigel have opened up the contract had 50% or more of the employees not managed their money properly before the contract expired?

Unity, not diversity will solve the problem. Sharing, not creed will solve the problem.

Where is Wolfe at? Is Seigel just the front yes man? Seigel, will you work for $100,000 per year until you get your company out of debt? Will you live by the same standards you are demanding of your employees, same pension plan, and same medical benefits?

He does not have enough guts to answer these questions above. I asked him the other day is it really over after the pension issue is resolved, he still has not answered.

His job is to manage the profit and losses of a corporation and his employees. Wolfe hid in the foreground while Seigel says I was brought in to straighten the mess out. He is not straightening the mess out because he is answering to Wolfe.

He is using dictatorship tactics, sign or lose. Wolfe did that, did you forget!

You make your own choices and decisions, yet you fear losing your job because he has used his words very well. Agree or lose your job period. Your subconscious mind has placed fear of losing 24-years of hard and dedicated work. He is more concerned about his future and monetary gain than yours. Did you read the firts article to this post?

He may be the most well educated man, but his tactics are pi*s poor. Maybe if he viewed how loyal his workers really are, he would see his problem is not his workers, it’s his spending people in the background.

I don’t want you too rise to any bait. I addressed your comments to PITbull that I find extremely offensive. I am not a worker bee, neither is anyone else, and he by far is not a queen bee. You won’t need to save my a** on an airplane, but you do need to save your money honey.
24 years and counting....never to become a retirement bee if you all keep bending.

 

[tug_slug]

Dave is neither evil or a virus, he's a business man plain and simple. He's a businessman that saw an opportunity and took it.

He used the Bankruptcy Court to make sure that whatever he wanted he received knowing full well that while the company was in chapter 11 bk and the economy in the toilet he would force organized labor to give in to his demands.

These contract's that we as Union members were forced to accept wont last forever, the economy will recover and our day will come. Were going to be ok... its just going to take some time.

Tug

 

[CaptChill]

[blockquote]
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On 2/1/2003 6:16:28 PM Braveheart wrote:

PITbull,

You are not alone. Keep up the good work.

BRAVEHEART [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif']
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[/blockquote]
Amen PitBull and Braveheart!... AMEN!

 

[Braveheart]

CaptChill:

Thank you, I learned something from one of your posts today. Good luck.

 

[diogenes]

Back when I worked for a real airline, I had absolute confidence I could present a plan to my superiors, and have confidence I would get a reasonable hearing. When a decision was made, I'd get an understandable, if not always likeable, reason for that decision. If I followed the chain of command, I could buck it up to Mr. Davis. Now to go that far, you'd better be right, but I saw it happen just that way. And, with few exceptions, I had respect for the airline skills of my leadership, even the few I personally disliked.

Kehller generated mutual respect at WN. This is the cornerstone to their success.

At U, the contempt is mutual.

I am of the firm opinion the Palace, when looking at the performance numbers WE generate under such duress, is encouraged to screw us some more. When they cut station staffing, and the performance numbers remain acceptable, they begin planning the next round of cuts. And they will not stop cutting until the damage is reflected in the performance numbers.

 

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/1/2003 7:40:30 PM diogenes wrote:

Back when I worked for a real airline, I had absolute confidence I could present a plan to my superiors, and have confidence I would get a reasonable hearing. When a decision was made, I'd get an understandable, if not always likeable, reason for that decision. If I followed the chain of command, I could buck it up to Mr. Davis. Now to go that far, you'd better be right, but I saw it happen just that way. And, with few exceptions, I had respect for the airline skills of my leadership, even the few I personally disliked.

Kehller generated mutual respect at WN. This is the cornerstone to their success.

At U, the contempt is mutual.

I am of the firm opinion the Palace, when looking at the performance numbers WE generate under such duress, is encouraged to screw us some more. When they cut station staffing, and the performance numbers remain acceptable, they begin planning the next round of cuts. And they will not stop cutting until the damage is reflected in the performance numbers.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Dio,

"Real World" stated that when the pension issue is resolved, than it will be over. He said it in one of the threads. He's the "Great Oz" in the crystal palace.

Looking at the voting numbers for the three groups, the margin is closing, and I do not believe the labor groups would vote any more concession proposal in. Management has used their last "trump card". The worrisome part is that they may initiate more furloughs to save more money, without reexamining the agreements for more concessions. For flight attendants, in many provisions we are way below other carriers, in some instances with regard to benefits, we are below the average corporate non union worker, especially in medical contributions now and going forward in relation to our wage. I believe CWA employees are in this same catagory with regard to medical and many IAM members. The worst is coming with the 5% wage hit and medical increasing again in March for all employees.

Its unfortunate for the pilot group that the pension contribution is so high for 2004. Once the co. would hurtle that, it should not have been a problem in the rest of the forwarding years. Why? I believe the severe wage reduction to the pilots would lessen the liability substantially in those years, and a slight change on the upside to the economy in those years would make the difference. But, then again, Siegel was complaining about the defined pensions since way back in September. This mangement wanted those pensisions no matter what and just waited until the end.

 

[Braveheart]

PITbull & DIO:

Real World wrote that comment in "ALPA UPDATE JAN 31" thread. It is the 7th article and reads as such at the very bottom of the article:

[blockquote]
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On 1/31/2003 9:39:30 PM real world wrote:

[blockquote]
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[/blockquote]

It is over after the pension issue is resolved.
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[/blockquote]

 

[PITbull]

Piney,

You are so correct. Mangement has a long road to tow with the Morale issues with the employees of U. One thing about Herb at SouthWest, his employees profit as the co. profits, and I am not talking "crumbs" like our management arranged for most of the "rank and file", but I mean real profit sharing. Also, SW is not considered "low cost" carrier from what I've read, they are a "low fare" carrier. Exp. Their Flight Attendants top out hourly rate is much higher thatn U flight attendants even BEFORE the wage reduction.

SW has an outstanding management who have an understanding of the "human element" as well as an understanding of the psyche of the employee and how to motivate their workforce with "incentives" and respect.

Our management has repeatedly said, if you have discontent, and think you can do better, then go else where!

 

[diogenes]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/1/2003 11:09:17 PM PITbull wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/1/2003 7:40:30 PM diogenes wrote:

Back when I worked for a real airline, I had absolute confidence I could present a plan to my superiors, and have confidence I would get a reasonable hearing. When a decision was made, I'd get an understandable, if not always likeable, reason for that decision. If I followed the chain of command, I could buck it up to Mr. Davis. Now to go that far, you'd better be right, but I saw it happen just that way. And, with few exceptions, I had respect for the airline skills of my leadership, even the few I personally disliked.

Kehller generated mutual respect at WN. This is the cornerstone to their success.

At U, the contempt is mutual.

I am of the firm opinion the Palace, when looking at the performance numbers WE generate under such duress, is encouraged to screw us some more. When they cut station staffing, and the performance numbers remain acceptable, they begin planning the next round of cuts. And they will not stop cutting until the damage is reflected in the performance numbers.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Dio,

"Real World" stated that when the pension issue is resolved, than it will be over. He said it in one of the threads. He's the "Great Oz" in the crystal palace.

Looking at the voting numbers for the three groups, the margin is closing, and I do not believe the labor groups would vote any more concession proposal in. Management has used their last "trump card". The worrisome part is that they may initiate more furloughs to save more money, without reexamining the agreements for more concessions. For flight attendants, in many provisions we are way below other carriers, in some instances with regard to benefits, we are below the average corporate non union worker, especially in medical contributions now and going forward in relation to our wage. I believe CWA employees are in this same catagory with regard to medical and many IAM members. The worst is coming with the 5% wage hit and medical increasing again in March for all employees.

Its unfortunate for the pilot group that the pension contribution is so high for 2004. Once the co. would hurtle that, it should not have been a problem in the rest of the forwarding years. Why? I believe the severe wage reduction to the pilots would lessen the liability substantially in those years, and a slight change on the upside to the economy in those years would make the difference. But, then again, Siegel was complaining about the defined pensions since way back in September. This mangement wanted those pensisions no matter what and just waited until the end.




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[/blockquote]
-------------------------------------------

I agree Dave will not come back for more concessions requiring our 'consent.'

He does not need to.

He can take as he see's fit under force majuere. Our contract is explicit as to what constitutes war with Iraq, and while that part of the contract is explicitly spelling out the 5% giveback, the force majuere article is alive and well.

 

[ClueByFour]

[blockquote]
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On 2/1/2003 2:32:23 PM PITbull wrote:

I do not want to veer off the main issue of these threads, but UNION, does not mean blue collar"worker bee". We are ALL workers of a corporation with different responsibilites and talents and education backgrounds, and skills. Some are more compensated than others depending on the responsibility NOT the hours put in. UNIONIZED workers are NOT just blue collar america, that is old mentality. They are DOCTORS and NURSES, and TEACHERS, PERFORMERS, ATHELETES ETC.. Many "white collar" professionals are unionized. And I call them professionals that work.
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[/blockquote]

Note that without the ability to unfairly skew the market in favor of overcompensating the employee, most white collar unionized positions would not pay anywhere near what they do (eg, nurses, teachers, etc).

Getting paid what a partiuclar skill will command in the market, BTW, is exactly why executives make zillions of bucks a year. With risk comes reward, and vice versa....

 

[PITbull]

I agree. And if those that command zillions in their field screw up, they are banished to the land of "oblivion, especially those folks that are NON union.