Siegel Article

[PSA1979]

Let me get this straight Braveheart, you want the CEO of the #7 airline in the US to work for the same wages as the highest paid pilot. Oh, what an overrated sense you have of yourself and all the other pilots. You must believe you are all executives and not workers like the rest of us. Why don't you apply for the position of CEO to Continental, American, Delta, etc. You forget, you are a worker bee just like the rest of us.Hey, Ted Turner is stepping down in May, maybe you can apply for his job!!

 

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
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On 2/1/2003 1123 AM Bob Owens wrote:

Pitbull;
Even at $600,000 the Mercedes still should not be a problem. In reality, when it comes to the reasonable expectations on enjoying the fruits of civilization the reduction from $750,000 to $600,000 are negligable.
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[/blockquote]

Bob,

Your point made much more CLEAR than mine! Thank you.

 

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
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On 2/1/2003 10:37:35 AM PSA1979 wrote:

Let me get this straight Braveheart, you want the CEO of the #7 airline in the US to work for the same wages as the highest paid pilot. Oh, what an overrated sense you have of yourself and all the other pilots. You must believe you are all executives and not workers like the rest of us. Why don't you apply for the position of CEO to Continental, American, Delta, etc. You forget, you are a worker bee just like the rest of us.Hey, Ted Turner is stepping down in May, maybe you can apply for his job!!
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[/blockquote]

PSA,

The issue is the margin of inequity/disparity regarding senior mangement give backs and "rank and file", is not the amount, but the sacrifice. Rank and file employees "sacrificed financially their present and future security, versus senior management's "give back".

The perspective is this: 10% of $35,000 has quite a different impact than 20% of $750,000; you could not agree? This type of disparity is not all relative. Medical costs are medical costs, food expense is food expense, utility costs are utiity costs, college expense for children is college expense for children, gas in cars expense is gas in cars expense...etc. Point being if I reduce just my wage by $7,000 gross pay to $28,000 makes it more difficult to afford the necessities of everyday living; If I reduce my wage by $150,000 to $600,000 I can still afford the necessities of life, I just have to cut back on the luxuries a bit. One whose income goes to $28,000 has to ponder whether they fix the old beat up heep cause a new chevy would have a car payment; the other $600,000 salary earner has to ponder whether they postpone buying their wife a mercedes this year,
Knowing that the $600,000 salary exec. will buy the mercedes when the bonus comes in the following year.

That I believe is the point.

 

[Bob Owens]

Pitbull;
Even at $600,000 the Mercedes still should not be a problem. In reality, when it comes to the reasonable expectations on enjoying the fruits of civilization the reduction from $750,000 to $600,000 are negligable.

 

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
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On 2/1/2003 11:28:36 AM PSA1979 wrote:

PITbull,
My response to Braveheart was to show there is a class system in the US. The Executives and the workers. We are the workers. Whether Union or not, we do the grunt work, we do not run the companies. We get paid for grunt labor.
No one asks us where the route system shoud go and no one asks us what airplanes to buy. We all have the opportunity to change our lot in life with college education and experience. But, some of us have to be the bottom of the totem pole. I do not begrudge the pilots for their salary, they are on top of the workers totem pole. But they are still Unionized workers and a lot of them feel they are management and executives.
I can't imagine people at other business acting like some of our employees with their righteous attitudes and telling the CEO to go to h***. Unions are great and they have helped the workers throughout the world, but they have given us an over inflated sense of our importance. Our importance to the company is based on how long it takes to replace us. For F'A that is 7 days of FAA mandated training. We have some of the best in the business, and I don't begrudge the work we do. We keep our customers coming back, because we have them longer and can make a longer lasting impression on them. Sometimes we can make it or breakit with them. But then again, so can a waitress at a very fine restaurant. Granted, we can direct them out of a burning aircraft and save their lives, but that only happens once in a blue moon. Day to day, we are wait staff.
But I digress.
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[/blockquote]

I guess from your written statements that the co. got to you, or you were just raised with that type of "self worth". If this is how you view yourself and your worth at this job, then peace to you. I on the other hand do the exact same job as you,and I have again another perspective. My intellect, performance, and "self worth" is invaluable, to me and especially my perfomance at my job. I am Degreed RN by education, and it assists me to serve my passengers in all aspects of safety. I also have a business degree which helps me understand the business economic community, and where "balance" can be created in the best and worst of times with regard to unions. This year i can cite that "depression" among U workers today is on the rise. The impact that severe, acute wage concessions has on employees and their families has a direct effect on "self worth and self esteem". Problems will be created within families as a direct result of these concession going forward, and have long term negative effects on job performance as a consequence. If you think not, then you know nothing about the "human condition".

We need to build each other up, not reduce people to say they do nothing but "grunt work". Employees who say that spread their negative thoughts and as a result, those in the profession have no leverage to make change in their wages or improvements going forward. Most of the employee groups are highly educated today, and have a chosen profession in aviation in which they have invested many many years. With all due respect, I only hope that folks like yourself begin to surround yourself with folks that believe they deserve more; because those are the folks that will be motivated to make change in the future, in which you will be the beneficiary of by "default".

 

[sdavis29]

[blockquote]
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On 2/1/2003 10:25:30 AM Braveheart wrote:

geo1004:

It is not the employees who are responsible for this mess. The sole responsibility rests squarely on the shoulder of Seigel and his executive staff. This includes the man still hiding behind the scenes.

These employees continue to give their best effort. Seigel has played games since his first concession request and continues to play the same game. Lose your job or bend to our demands, lose your pension or bend to our demands. He has played each issue one at a time.

It is time for the employees to call his bluff. The employees keep agreeing and he keeps demanding for more givebacks. When he works for the same pay as the highest paid pilot, pays the same insurance benefit package he has demanded his employees pay, take the same pension plan he is requesting his employees to take only then will I know he is sincere with the working employee and helping US Airways to survive.


BRAVEHEART [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/6.gif']
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[/blockquote]
i honestly believe mr seigel is in a win win situation....
1. i dont think anyone expects 'U' to survive. having said that, the more pax(creditors) he gets off the sinking ship with the least amount of injuries the more he looks like a genius.
2. should this whole thing fail, the way he has shredded the work force and as stated earlier, pitted groups against each other, it will be easy to blame the final demise on labor...
he will be able to walk away, 'WE TRIED'
3. if by some stroke of luck 'U' does survive, well then again he can write his own ticket to any destination he chooses.



[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/10.gif']

 

[Braveheart]

PSA:

Thanks PSA, but i don't need the job. Maybe that is where Seigel should go? What do you think?

 

[PSA1979]

They are the ones flying on our flights, I see the same ones week after week. The other ones you must have scared off with your rhetoric and bad mouthing our company in the newspapers. The other ones are afraid of a war with Iraq, so they are all keeping close to home. Remember, the threat of war? It's even closer than ever.

 

[PSA1979]

Ah, Braveheart, I don't even have the thought that I could run an airline. But I am one h***of a F/A. I bet you couldn't say that!!

 

[PSA1979]

PITbull,
My response to Braveheart was to show there is a class system in the US. The Executives and the workers. We are the workers. Whether Union or not, we do the grunt work, we do not run the companies. We get paid for grunt labor.
No one asks us where the route system shoud go and no one asks us what airplanes to buy. We all have the opportunity to change our lot in life with college education and experience. But, some of us have to be the bottom of the totem pole. I do not begrudge the pilots for their salary, they are on top of the workers totem pole. But they are still Unionized workers and a lot of them feel they are management and executives.
I can't imagine people at other business acting like some of our employees with their righteous attitudes and telling the CEO to go to h***. Unions are great and they have helped the workers throughout the world, but they have given us an over inflated sense of our importance. Our importance to the company is based on how long it takes to replace us. For F'A that is 7 days of FAA mandated training. We have some of the best in the business, and I don't begrudge the work we do. We keep our customers coming back, because we have them longer and can make a longer lasting impression on them. Sometimes we can make it or breakit with them. But then again, so can a waitress at a very fine restaurant. Granted, we can direct them out of a burning aircraft and save their lives, but that only happens once in a blue moon. Day to day, we are wait staff.
But I digress.

 

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
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On 2/1/2003 1115 AM Bob Owens wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 2/1/2003 9:38:48 AM geo1004 wrote:

Wow. Harsh word for Mr. Dave. Unfortunately it is impossible for US Airways to survive the way it is currently structured. Even with all the cost-slashing it still costs US 11 cents a mile to put a plane in the air. How can they make money doing that?

The fix for US is not to find a way to sustain its current cost structure, but to find a way to drastically reduce its cost structure. To brand Dave as evil because he is trying to keep the airline alive is simply not fair.
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[/blockquote]

The IRS allows you to write off 36.5 cents per mile for the use of your car. Should air travel cost less than a third of travel by car? 11 cents per mile is not bad, in 1929 the cost per passenger mile was 12 cents. By 1939 it had dropped to 5.1 cents with the introduction of the DC-3. How many things are still less expensive today than in 1929? The flying public has unrealistic expectations from the air transportation system. They want it to be cheap like mass transit but they dont want tax dollars to subsidize it. Instead the government and the airlines are conspiring to make airline employees subsidize air travel through forced wage reductions and bankruptcy scams. In effect we pay the cost of providing cheap air travel to the public.

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[/blockquote]

Bob,

BINGO! You hit it right on. Congress is in on this as well, and wants to ensure that the enhanced security measure costs that are in the billions are not endured by the airlines, or tax payers,or passenger, but smack down on the emplloyee of the airline, for as long as the employee can stand it.

 

[Braveheart]

[blockquote]
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On 2/1/2003 11:30:34 AM PSA1979 wrote:

Ah, Braveheart, I don't even have the thought that I could run an airline. But I am one h***of a F/A. I bet you couldn't say that!!
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[/blockquote]


You know what PSA, I'll bet you are 100% correct, and I'd bet I couldn't say that also. God Bless You.

 

[PITbull]

Oh, and one more thing PSA,

Siegel has stated repeatedly that we should have the wages and workrules of Jet Blue, who is non union, and they rank number 27 in ranking of pay out of 41 airlines. Their CEO makes $200,000 per year, and received a bonus of $105,000 for 2001. Our CEO runs the 7th largest carrier (and in bankruptcy) and his salary is 5th largest CEO ranking WITH pay cut.When we emerge from bankruptcy he will be entitled to bonus and stock; not for airline performance, but for his own performance starting 2005 from performance in 2004.

Go figure.

 

[PSA1979]

Oh, and another thing the company hasn't gotten to me, I am just a loyal worker, doing the best I can do to keep our customers coming back!!!

 

[PITbull]

It's not about who does a better job; the point here is a "self worth" issue. Your a "grunter" and I am a "profesional" doing the exact same job.

Now, how about a game of "chess"?