Shots fired by Sky Marshal on Flt 924 MIA-MCO prior to departure

[Bagbelt]

I don't think it helped having the story of the Ohio cop tasering the old lady sitting on the bench the same day either.

 

[777 fixer]

What, do you think I keep files of clippings on this?

No, I don't, because I have a life.

I stand by my statement that too many police shootings involve unarmed victims. How many is too many? You tell me. I purposely did not give any numbers because I don't have any. Who keeps this sort of stuff? Do your own research if you want to talk numbers.

I shall not respond to your hinting that I say there is "some sort of nation wide pattern of police guning down unarmed people".
And yes, the media goes ape over the shooting of an unarmed victim. As it should. And they do not go ape over an armed perp being shot. Nothing to go ape over, is there?

We get our information on such incidents from the media. Where else would we get them, from the police? Get real. We rely on a free press to provide the information that the government and its agencies do not want us to have. Without the media, we would never have the truth about anything. I discussed this with a neighbor, a retired newsman. He said that it would be almost impossible to get this information from police. He further stated that if he ever wrote an article on the subject, his sources within the department would dry up completely.

.

So what you have done is make a blanket statement with nothing to back it up. It seems to me that the only thing that makes it true is becasue you believe it to be so. I found it interesting that you tell me to do my own research when your the one making statemants you cannot back up.

Since police keep record of officer involved shootings it should not be to hard to get the information. Your claim that one cannot get the information from them is somewhat dubious.

 

[eolesen]

-The pilots, maybe not visual, but certainly they heard something.

The Captain is said to have been standing at the entry doorway when the shooting occurred, and has backed up the FAM's version of the story. The FO was in the cockpit and wasn't aware of anything until the shots were fired.

Good thing it wasn't a FFDO who did this... we'd have all the right wingers calling to end the program immediately.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Since police keep record of officer involved shootings it should not be to hard to get the information. Your claim that one cannot get the information from them is somewhat dubious.

I might add that the Police Commission here has a little trouble obtaining information from the police, as well, however dubious it may seem to you.

"It was not the first time the Police Commission had been led astray by the department it supervises. Time and again, the LAPD has given its civilian overseers an incomplete, often distorted picture of police shootings, a Times investigation found."

There are many more examples in the complete article, titled Investigating Their Own-The LAPD has often led its civilian overseers astray about key facts on officers' use of deadly force:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/state/la...l=la-news-state

However, if your mind is already made up, there is no point in reading the article.

.

 

[777 fixer]

I might add that the Police Commission here has a little trouble obtaining information from the police, as well, however dubious it may seem to you.

"It was not the first time the Police Commission had been led astray by the department it supervises. Time and again, the LAPD has given its civilian overseers an incomplete, often distorted picture of police shootings, a Times investigation found."

There are many more examples in the complete article, titled Investigating Their Own-The LAPD has often led its civilian overseers astray about key facts on officers' use of deadly force:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/state/la...l=la-news-state

However, if your mind is already made up, there is no point in reading the article.

.

So you are using an article about the LAPD to show some sort of nation wide epidemic of police shoting unarmed people. Soory but you are going to have to come up with something better than that.

It appears however you already have your mind made up that the police in this country are out of control and we are all somehow in danger.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

It appears however you already have your mind made up that the police in this country are out of control and we are all somehow in danger.

No, that is not what I said.

I hope you are better at fixing 777s than you are at mind-reading.

.

 

[flygirl74]

A guy on his way back from doing missionary work helping a relative who is a dentist provide care to poor people.

If someone has explosives what do you suppose would happen if you shot the explosives?

Seems to me that the last thing you would want to do is shoot them if you were in close proximity to them.

Now simply saying "I have a bomb" makes you a danger? OK, kind of like yelling "fire" in a movie theater I guess so that makes it a crime, but not a capitol offense.

For all we know the guy may have said that he thinks there's a bomb on the plane, seems reasonable since he was running off the plane, but so far we havent haerd from anyone other than the people who shot him that he said anything about a bomb.

The fact is an unarmed man is dead. He was attempting to run off the aircraft, from one secure area to another and apparently he was not acting aggressively or threatening towards anybody. Something obviously went very wrong. Its not a question of hanging the guys who shot him but trying to make sure that it doesnt happen again.

Say the bomb was TNT. Would a bullet set it off?? I was watching a show, I think it was "Lassie" :blink: TNT can be smashed apart with a hammer but won't detonate. Hence the added blasting cap in the fuse. The "little" blast of the cap is the cataylist (sp?) to detonate the TNT.
I'm sure the folks at El Al would have done the exact same thing.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Down here in Texas we have an old saying,"SHOOT FIRST,ASK QUESTIONS LATER!" All I know is:If I'm confronted by a "crazy nut" who says he has a bomb in his backpack, I'm going to believe what the "crazy nut" says until proven otherwise. I don't care if he is BI-polar,TRI-polar,etc. The "crazy nut" is going to get blasted by my shotgun. I'm not going to stand around and wait to become a victim.

 

[Bob Owens]

I wonder, Mr. Owens, if the Air Marshalls had hesitated, and the man made good on his threat and detonated a bomb and killed your family, if you'd feel differently.

Made good on his alleged threat to blow up a bomb he did not have on a jetbridge with no other passengers?

Facts, the man was unarmed, did not have a bomb, was attempting to EXIT the plane, had passed through both customs and security and was shot to death by two trained law enforcement officials. Those are the only facts we have, the rest is testimony and the victim cant contribute or rebutt.

By the way the price of Freedom is not that the innocent die at the hands of law enforcement but that the Freedom we have includes the risk that innocent may die at the hands of criminals who are then sought out and punished by law enforcement. We dont kill people because we think they may commit a crime.

The idea that a its acceptable to kill off a few innocents to ward off suicidal terrorists is preposterous. First of all it does nothing to deter such terrorists, who are determined to die anyway and secondly it strips us all of the very Freedoms we seek to protect.

 

[FA Mikey]

On the jet bridge. The man at the point turned to the FAM and with a backpack wrapped around the front of his body, being told to "get down." Reached in to his backpack.

The man made threats against the AC, crew and passengers. The man was non compliant and made a threading gesture to the officer.

Like any situation exclamation is a problem. Mentally ill or not. The man put himself in harms way. It is possible he had stopped taking medication. Made threats against an airplane full of people. Refused to stop when ordered to do so.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

On the jet bridge. The man at the point turned to the FAM and with a backpack wrapped around the front of his body, being told to "get down." Reached in to his backpack.

The man made threats against the AC, crew and passengers. The man was non compliant and made a threading gesture to the officer.

Like any situation exclamation is a problem. Mentally ill or not. The man put himself in harms way. It is possible he had stopped taking medication. Made threats against an airplane full of people. Refused to stop when ordered to do so.

Irrespective of all else, I cannot imagine a person facing a gun doing anything other than raising his hands. He must have really been in a serious panic attack.

 

[nbmcg01]

Irrespective of all else, I cannot imagine a person facing a gun doing anything other than raising his hands. He must have really been in a serious panic attack.

A very sad situation for all involved. The man's family will never be the same. The FSM's will forever be changed. But the fact remains, they did their job. In this line of work, there are very few nano seconds to make a life altering decision. For those speaking about the police, do you honestly think that ANY officer wants to go out and shoot an unarmed (or armed) person? They are faced with "death by cop", "kids" with real looking toy guns, young people that settle differences by gun fire, and an all out assault on the police. I don't ever want to see the mother, wife, husband, child of police officer gunned down because he or she hesitated. Spend a few days with "Backstoppers" for an eye opening experience. Today, there is very little support for our police but very quick blame if they don't react in what the public perceives as a "timely mannor". With the cuts in Medicaid, out of reach utilities, housing unavailable, jobs, (with or without benefits) almost non existant, the "mood" in many formerly safe areas is rapidly changing. I know because I am in those neighborhoods every day as an independent living specialist. And I honestly believe we haven't seen anything yet.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

Excellent article in Editor and Publisher about media coverage of this incident:


http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/co...t_id=1001699287


Fact Checking the Feds in Airport Shooting
Two air marshals gunned down an American citizen last week in Miami, and the press swallowed the government's now-flawed explanation of a "bomb threat" hook, line, and sinker.

 

[FWAAA]

FWAAA,

You're making alot of assumptions with witnesses who didn't see the actions near the door.

We haven't heard from a few more critical witnesses:

-The FA's, probably 2
-The pilots, maybe not visual, but certainly they heard something.
-The Cockpit voice recorder. Could record if the CP door was open.
-The Marshals.
Probably an agent on the jetbridge.
It is a terrible situation for all involved

I'll concede that all the statements attributed to the deceased are accurate. I don't think I have argued the alleged facts of this case at all. If I did, I apologize, as such was not my intention.

My major assumption (and I'll readily admit it) is that the likelihood that the deceased actually possessed anything dangerous (or a bomb or IED) is extremely remote. So remote as to be negligible.

I'm saddened by the needless death of the person who said he had a bomb. What saddens me more is the knee-jerk assumption by those with the guns (and the nonparticipant commentators as well) that we must assume the accuracy and validity of all mentions of the word "bomb" or assumed bomb threats, like the "BOB" written on the UAL airsick back a year or two ago. Or the stupid comment/bad joke by the drunken college kid on WN at BUR since this thread was begun.

Terrorists attacked us savagely more than four years ago. We must never allow that to happen again.

Nevertheless, logic tells us (and told the sky marshals before they shot him) that the deceased didn't have a bomb. No doubt they were following their SOP. But if so, that SOP is flawed; their SOP and response were predicated on an emotional, not a logical, analysis of the situation. That's why they pulled the trigger on an unarmed, mentally unstable man. Sadly, police officers do the same thing with disturbing regularity.

Fortunately for innocent air passengers, the sky marshals have thus far (until this unfortunate incident) shown more reasoned restraint when dealing with disturbances.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

mentions of the word "bomb" or assumed bomb threats, like the "BOB" written on the UAL airsick back a year or two ago.

I haven't heard about the "BOB" story? Can you enlighten me?