Shots fired by Sky Marshal on Flt 924 MIA-MCO prior to departure

[Bagbelt]

Actually, I'm a mechanic, and I don't look down on anyone. We're all God's children sweetheart. -There's no prize at the bottom of that bottle.

 

[was]

And mechanics should be loading and loading bags instead of just sitting around in the line stations watching someone else do it

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Looks like another troll to ignore.

 

[Mach85ER]

Skymess,

You've demonstrated little if any real knowledge of the FFDO program. Your initial post is about as petty and disgusting as it gets regarding your fellow employees.

 

[Skymess]

Skymess,

You've demonstrated little if any real knowledge of the FFDO program. Your initial post is about as petty and disgusting as it gets regarding your fellow employees.

Whatever, moron. I guess you are one of the real tough guys carrying a gun in a locked off cockpit. Right?

 

[j7915]

I am a shooter, but have to agree that armed pilots don't add much safety. A right-handed captain is particularly limited in his usefulness, as is a left-handed FO. And keeping the cockpit door is by far the best way of assuring safety.

In fact, having armed pilots could even compromise safety. The terrorists could start slashing stews, and an armed pilot would feel bound to protect her. It would be hard for a lot of men to be armed and do nothing when a woman they knew and/or cared about was being slashed to death. Terrorists could exploit this. Once a pilot is out of the cockpit, things go away fast.

I think the airplanes need another door, just behind the lav entrance. The food cart barricade is just not as good as a good solid door. And only cockpit crew would have keys or control of latches.

Or just give the pilots Gatorade bottles and tell them to stay in the cockpit. Or relief tubes.

.

I have said the same thing years ago, with the enhancement that a bulkhead between cockpit and cabin would make terrorizing passengers to affect pilot's actions a futile excersise.

As for toilets and box lunches and getting into the cockpit: the rationale that most pilots are military trained, hence trained in gun use, has its own solution they are used to climbing into the pilot's seat thru the window anyway, at least the "hotshots" are. And they can wear flightsuits for convenience.

 

[Bob Owens]

A very sad situation for all involved. The man's family will never be the same. The FSM's will forever be changed. But the fact remains, they did their job. In this line of work, there are very few nano seconds to make a life altering decision. For those speaking about the police, do you honestly think that ANY officer wants to go out and shoot an unarmed (or armed) person? They are faced with "death by cop", "kids" with real looking toy guns, young people that settle differences by gun fire, and an all out assault on the police. I don't ever want to see the mother, wife, husband, child of police officer gunned down because he or she hesitated. Spend a few days with "Backstoppers" for an eye opening experience. Today, there is very little support for our police but very quick blame if they don't react in what the public perceives as a "timely mannor". With the cuts in Medicaid, out of reach utilities, housing unavailable, jobs, (with or without benefits) almost non existant, the "mood" in many formerly safe areas is rapidly changing. I know because I am in those neighborhoods every day as an independent living specialist. And I honestly believe we haven't seen anything yet.

I suppose thats the price we all must pay so the rich can get richer.

There are jerks in every department. I think it is just that when a pilot goes bad they are really, really bad.
I don't think the $20 buck an hour pilot pay will come any time soon. I don't think the rates will stay where they are forever, though. Not with the econo-box airlines leading the way down the slope. Jet Blue workers are doing whatever they can to ensure the Walmart effect keeps thriving.

Dont kid yourself, AA workers are leading the decline as they have been for the last twenty years.

 

[Mach85ER]

Whatever, moron. I guess you are one of the real tough guys carrying a gun in a locked off cockpit. Right?

Let's get back to your first irrational and vindictive post before you spin off some other way.

Too bad it wasn't an FFDO and they didn't end the program.

Now if you really are a crewmember and not just another teenage kid on a reduced Ritalin dosage, the average person might just find out how vicious your post was.

Whatever did happen was a tragedy, and as of now, we still don't know if the shooting was justified or not by Air Marshal standards. We do know though from public statements that the FAMS most likely were operating on the jetbridge armed according to their rules. (pending the final investigation)
Now according to public knowledge easily found on the internet and from goverment statements on the prof, the FFDO pilots are armed, yet are only allowed to defend the cockpit from takeover. One might also think that if you are a crewmember Skymess, you would be aware of this.
From what we know of the shooting, it occurred on the jetbridge. If it was an FFDO, it would be highly likely that he would now be charged with murder or manslaughter at a minimum, unless there has been a change in the original law passed by Congress

I'd put down you post as basically incoherent yapping of a rather petty and ignorant invidual. Any other comments from you on the subject can be considered as irrelevant.
Twisting a tragedy like this into something that would suit your naive and ignorant views and would have resulting in a serious charge for a fellow employee, is about as scummy as it gets, especially on a public forum.




Wrench,

You have a good point on the doors. I've heard El AL does a double door where one is closed at all times. It would be another layer of security that would be welcomed.
I would also think that anyone with basic gun knowledge realizes the possible problems when entering a close confined area alone with adversaries present. Whether it be a room, garage, office or the forward part of an aircraft, the chances of success are pretty low, even if the others are only armed with knives. Sounds like those prison scenarios where the inmates have a guard by the throat and want to get in the armory. In the case of an aircraft, it would even be worse.

(ps first sentence was written while answering phone )

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Wrench,

I also would think that anyone with a handgun would realize that entering a close confined area alone with adversaries, whether it be a room, garage, office or the forward part of an aircraft, would think their chances of success would be pretty low, especially in a "mayhem" scenario you described.

And the December prize for the most convuluted sentence goes to................ Mach85ER!

But seriously, many men with a gun fall prey to the feeling that they can solve all problems or right all wrongs with their gun. It's not realistic, but it's there. Certainly the premise the a pilot's gun is to be used only to prevent the cockpit from takeover is valid, but I wonder how an individual could apply his own interpretation to a quickly developing situation, and perhaps open the cockpit door in a situation. Or even leave the cockpit. The idea of a more fortified cockpit seems to address that issue as well. Or even the separate cockit external door. Anyone remember the 747 freighter? The flight crew was unable to access the main deck once it was loaded.

I remember when many of our pilots were armed. Any aircraft carrying mail was allowed to have an armed pilot.

.
.

 

[Mach85ER]

I remember when many of our pilots were armed. Any aircraft carrying mail was allowed to have an armed pilot.

I had heard from the "old hands" that before metal detectors came in to use, it was routine for pilots to have a gun with them.

 

[FWAAA]

Weren't armed pilots fairly common until the mid-'80s? Until the PSA attack by the fired employee resulting in the Paso Robles-area crash, flight crews routinely bypassed the checkpoints, IIRC.

D'Oh! Faulty memory. Thanks, Dea Certe.

Edited to correct faulty post.

 

[Mach85ER]

Weren't armed pilots fairly common until the mid-'80s? Until the PSA attack by the fired employee resulting in the San Diego crash, flight crews routinely bypassed the checkpoints, IIRC.

I doubt it was common. I think there was a specific rule against carrying at that point. I think in the pre-detector days, the rules didn't exist. Therefore, carry what you want.

 

[local 12 proud]

I doubt it was common. I think there was a specific rule against carrying at that point. I think in the pre-detector days, the rules didn't exist. Therefore, carry what you want.

Not meaning to get off topic, but research those states that have concealed carry and you will find less lawlessness

 

[Wretched Wrench]

I doubt it was common. I think there was a specific rule against carrying at that point. I think in the pre-detector days, the rules didn't exist. Therefore, carry what you want.

I remember when I went hunting, I would give my shotgun or rifle to the flight crew and they would secure it in the cockpit. There were special straps and brackets put in by the AA mod crew for that purpose.

On one trip, for whatever reason, the captain refused my shotgun in the cockpit. So, right there at the counter, I broke it in half, put it in my bag, and the agent tagged it and sent it down the slide to be loaded in the belly.

Times have changed, huh?

.

 

[Bob Owens]

Not meaning to get off topic, but research those states that have concealed carry and you will find less lawlessness

Does that same research show more accidental deaths by gunshots in those states too? I guess it depends on who does the "research".