Shared Sacrifice? - Where is Eagle

[Cleared Direct]

Eagle just went to a "fee for departure" agreement with AMR. Eagle was on a pro-rated contract bases with AMR before, and received part of the connecting revenue. Now Eagle gets a fixed payment regardless if the plane is full or no matter how much ticket revenue is generated. This is how most none wholly owned carriers contract with airlines. AMR has been able to blur the money between the carriers to their advantage in the past. Now Eagle will clearly show much larger profits if looked at like a contractor.

This is clearly being done to make AMR look like they are losing more money while at the same time making Eagle look more profitable for a sale of their assets.

Eagle is making money and you will soon see how much every quarter. Eagle emoloyees have already shared enough sacrifice. Eagle will not share in the stock shares that will be attained in the proposed TAs at AA.

The 51+ seat RJs are by no means a contractual right of APA. This is a flat lie. The proposed TA does agree to all future 51+ RJs will be operated by pilots at AA. It proposes a total of 2 years to figure out what to do with the CRJ-700's that are already at Eagle. This includes an agreemnet with ALPA.

Eagle is not the enemy. Get informed.

 

[will fix for food]

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On 4/4/2003 4:53:47 PM RV4 wrote:


Of course they are profitable.

"AA funds their marketing."

American doesn/t charge Eagle anything? Are you sure?


"AA funds their management overhead."

Hell, upper Eagle management ARE American employees. Peter Bowler's badge doesn/t say Eagle on it. I always thought this was BS. Who's interests do you think he is looking out for? Certainly not ours.


"AA funds their landing fees."

Are you sure?


"AA funds their customer website."

100%?


"AA funds their catering."

Again, you might want to double check that.


"AA funds their aircraft."

Eagle desn/t contribute anything? Where did you see this?


And now AA is going to fund the concessions.

Holy Christ Batman, if it wasn't for AA they would have red ink also!

"SHARED SACRIFICE MY ASS"!

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So spin Eagle off. It could get you some quick cash and we won/t be around anymore to drag you guys down

 

[AAviator]

The 51+ seat RJs are by no means a contractual right of APA. This is a flat lie. The proposed TA does agree to all future 51+ RJs will be operated by pilots at AA. It proposes a total of 2 years to figure out what to do with the CRJ-700''s that are already at Eagle. This includes an agreemnet with ALPA

You just contradicted yourself.

The language isn''t available to us yet, so how can you have it?

 

[AAviator]

Contractual language, that is.

 

[AAviator]

oops bad info, its on our web site. 51+belongs to APA. Period. Don''t know the time frame, but its ours. Pending ratification.

 

[Cleared Direct]

-------------------------------------
AAviator wrote:

oops bad info, its on our web site. 51+belongs to APA. Period. Don't know the time frame, but its ours. Pending ratification.
-------------------------------------

AAviator you still are giving out bad info. I will make this real easy for you. Here is the current APA contract language which clearly states that a Commuter Air Carrier (Eagle) can operate up to 67 Commuter Jets between 45-70 seats:

___________________________________
Section 1: Recognition and Scope

D. SCOPE EXCEPTION: COMMUTER AIR CARRIERS

5. Limitations on Commuter Air Carriers

d. 67 Commuter Jets Cap. Notwithstanding the above, such Commuter Air Carriers may operate no more than 67 Commuter Jets until this Agreement is amended.


Section 1: Recognition and Scope

B. DEFINITIONS

5. Commuter Jet

The term "Commuter Jet" means a jet aircraft certificated in any country at the time of purchase with a maximum passenger capacity of at least 45 passenger seats but not more than 70 passenger seats and with a maximum certificated gross takeoff weight not in excess
of 75,000 pounds.
_____________________________________


It was a major mistake by APA to allow any AMR commuter to operate 70 seat RJs, but what's done is done. Even upon ratification of the proposed TA, Eagle will continue to operate the 70 seaters on property and on firm order up to 2 years from date of signing the proposed agreement. During this time period AA, APA, and ALPA have to figure out how to transfer the 70 seaters to AA with a neutral labor cost. If no agreement is made then it goes to binding arbitration. Note ALPA must be part of the agreement.

Below is the LOA on the CRJ-700 and Supplement W:

___________________________________________
Agreement on CRJ-700 Aircraft and Supplement W Settlement

This Agreement is made and entered into in accordance with the
provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended, by and between American
Airlines, Inc., hereinafter known as the “Companyâ€￾ and the Air Line Pilots in the
service of the Company as represented by the Allied Pilots Association,
hereinafter known as the APA.
Whereas the Association and the Company have agreed that in the future,
Commuter Air Carriers operating under Section 1.D. of the Agreement shall
utilize only aircraft that are not certificated in the United States or Europe with a
maximum passenger capacity of more than 50 seats and that are not certificated
in any country with a maximum gross takeoff weight of more than 65,000 pounds;
Whereas American Eagle Airlines currently has twenty five CRJ-700
aircraft in service or on firm order, and also has options on an additional twenty
five CRJ-700 aircraft;
Whereas the parties have agreed to settle certain Grievances dated
November 8, 2001 and November 30, 2001 under Supplement W to the
Agreement on the terms contained herein and in the accompanying “Small Jetsâ€￾
Letter of Agreement;
Now, therefore, the parties hereby agree to the following:
1. The Company and APA shall have one year from [DOS] to meet and
negotiate in good faith the transfer of the CRJ-700 aircraft currently in service, on
order, or on option at American Eagle to the Company’s operating certificate in a
manner that shall be cost-neutral as to labor costs under collective bargaining
agreements.
2. The APA hereby grants to the Company an exception from the 50 seat,
65,000 pound limitations on aircraft at American Eagle during the time period of
negotiations pursuant to paragraph 1, above, and for one year after reaching
agreement with the APA under paragraph 1, above, in order to effect the transfer
to the Company’s operating certificate of all CRJ-700 aircraft operated by the
Company or an Affiliate.
3. If the parties fail to reach agreement pursuant to paragraph 1, above,
furloughed American pilots shall occupy the CRJ Captain positions at American
Eagle so long as any American pilots are on furlough; the parties shall meet to
discuss how best to implement the parties present intention to secure CRJ-700
flying at the Company and its Affiliates to American Airlines pilots; and the
Company shall have an exception to keep the affected CRJ-700 aircraft at
American Eagle pending the resolution of that issue.
3. Furloughed American Airlines pilots shall displace into CJ Captain
positions on the CRJ-700 at American Eagle under the terms of Supplement W
to the Agreement; such displacement shall encompass all CJ Captain positions
currently occupied by Eagle CJ Captains and subject to displacement under the
terms of Supplement W.
4. Furloughed American Airlines pilots shall be recalled into vacant CJ
Captain positions created by the receipt of new CRJ-700 aircraft at American
Eagle pursuant to the terms of Supplement W. All furloughed American Airlines
pilots shall be eligible for such recall to American Eagle in accordance with their
American Airlines seniority, regardless of whether they have previously occupied
the CJ Captain bid status at American Eagle.
5. A furloughed American Airlines pilot shall be recalled into each vacant CJ
Captain position created by the receipt of a new EMB-145 aircraft at American
Eagle pursuant to the terms of Supplement W, provided that the addition of that
aircraft results in an increase in the overall American Eagle fleet count. All
furloughed American Airlines pilots shall be eligible for such recall to American
Eagle in accordance with their American Airlines seniority, regardless of whether
they have previously occupied the CJ Captain bid status at American Eagle.
Furloughed American Airlines pilots waive their right to any further displacements
and recalls into EMB-145 aircraft after DOS.
For the American Airlines, Inc. For the APA
____________________________________________



Get informed.

 

[AAviator]

We''re saying the same thing differently. Get informed is good advice, you should try it.

The language you refer to in the current contract is correct, but black lined in the T/A. Pending ratification, its gone.

Re-read the LOA and tell me how after a time period Eagle will be flying anything with more than 50 seats.

 

[Winglet]

If AMR has its way (and it WILL), it will rapidly migrate narrowbody jobs into 50-90 seat RJ equipment under dictated contract terms that will mirror the AE contract (or maybe worse). That would mean basically no significant retirement, crap work rules and pay.

The strategy is to just enough of the senior APA guys shaking-in-their-boots to keep pushing the junior guys out of the boat when it comes to contract votes.

End result? All domestic flying (except for maybe transcon) migrated to commuter compensation. International wide-body flying kept at compensation just enough (read slashed A fund and no B fund) to keep those pilots from revolting, at least until all phases of management''s plan is complete. After that, it irrelevant what they think.

Assuming the economy isn''t in another depression in 2010, then expect a bloodbath of labor problems. Of course, by that time, the CEOs will have the politicians in their pocket again and we''ll have baseball arbitration. We''ll get an incremental raise to compensate for future inflation and that''s it. And that will be off wages at 1991 levels. A strike will be illegal because the new laws will prevent it.

I''m sure Carty, Bethune, Anderson, Mullins can hardly believe their astonishing luck.

 

[Buck]

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On 4/5/2003 9:55:43 AM twaokc wrote:


"It might also help if pilots would stop supporting the GOP and there grand plan to take away our fair right to strike."

All labor should stop supporting the GOP. Look what has happend to labor since BUSHY boy has been elected.



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It might also help if the industrial unions would stop support the liberal left wing agenda and concentrate on those issues that pertain to this industry. When you attack Bush, that is fine, however when you do so could you list the accomplishment for labor while under the Clinton administration?

This thread is about Shared Sacrifice.

Why is it that AMR is going to file bankruptcy, but those not directly under the American Airlines umbrella are not having to share the sacrifice?

 

[xlurker]

Quit crying about what Eagle is giving up.

If they have such a good deal GO WORK FOR THEM.

 

[Hopeful]

You must be referring to Labor-Friendly Clinton who stopped the pilot''s strike 5 minutes after midnight!

 

[FA Mikey]

Yea because I am sure a BK judge would never offer AA relief from the scope clause. At least in a YES vote you get terms and conditions.

Passengers love them over the traditional prop jets. But given a choice they will choose a typical Boeing or Airbus narrow body over them any day. Market conditions and the what the customer want will rule the market place. Airlines are no longer in the driver seat there.

 

[twaokc]

"It might also help if pilots would stop supporting the GOP and there grand plan to take away our fair right to strike."

All labor should stop supporting the GOP. Look what has happend to labor since BUSHY boy has been elected.

 

[FA Mikey]

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On 4/5/2003 9:27:22 AM Winglet wrote:


Assuming the economy isn''t in another depression in 2010, then expect a bloodbath of labor problems. Of course, by that time, the CEOs will have the politicians in their pocket again and we''ll have baseball arbitration. We''ll get an incremental raise to compensate for future inflation and that''s it. And that will be off wages at 1991 levels. A strike will be illegal because the new laws will prevent it.

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It might also help if pilots would stop supporting the GOP and there grand plan to take away our fair right to strike.

 

[Buck]

If you tire of hearing about Eagle, then have Mr. Carty and the Board of Directors at AMR declare that Eagle is not part of AMR.