Shared Sacrifice? - Where is Eagle
- Thread starter AAviator
- Start date
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #32
Small Jets
New Commuter Jet definition – < 50 seats and 64,500 MGTOW
The parties agree to transfer of the CRJ-700 aircraft (including orders and
options) at AE to the AA operating certificate when it will be labor cost
neutral to do so.
Released April 1, 2003 2
The APA grants the Company an exception from the 50 seat, 64,500
MGTOW limitations on aircraft at AE until CRJ-700 is transferred to AA.
If the parties cannot reach agreement on the transfer of aircraft,
furloughed AA pilots shall occupy the CRJ Captain positions at AE so long
as any AA pilots are on furlough.
Furloughed AA pilots shall be recalled into vacant CJ Captain positions
created by the delivery of new CRJ-700 aircraft at AE.
Furloughed AA pilots shall be recalled into vacant CJ Captain positions
created by the delivery of new EMB-145 aircraft at AE under the terms of
Supplement W (provided that the addition of that aircraft results in an
increase in the overall AE fleet count).
After being trained on a CRJ or ERJ at AE, the pilot cannot be recalled to AA
for a period of 2 years.
Upon recall to the mainline, AA pilots will exit AE at rate of not more than 20
per month.
Jets for Jobs Protocol
The Company and APA will attempt to reach agreement on a "Jets for Jobs
Protocol" that will provide furloughed AA pilots access to incremental
Commuter Jet Captains positions at newly franchised Commuter Carriers.
If the parties cannot reach agreement, a mediator/arbitrator will issue an
award (based on industry standards).
May 1, 2003
Captain John E. Darrah
President
Allied Pilots Association
14600 Trinity Boulevard, Ste 500
Fort Worth, TX 76155
Re: Process For Reaching Jets for Jobs Protocols for Commuter Air Carriers
Dear Captain Darrah:
This letter confirms the parties’ agreement to establish a process of mediation-interest
arbitration to reach Jets for Jobs Protocols for Commuter Air Carriers that become Affiliates of
the Company but are not majority-owned, and Commuter Air Carriers that are not Affiliates but
which enter into franchise-type agreements with the Company.
(1) The Company shall notify the Association at least 30 days in advance of entering into a
relationship under Section 1.D. of the Basic Agreement with a non-owned Commuter Air
Carrier.
(2) The Company and the Association will discuss the proposed relationship for a period of
30 days after the notice in order to reach an agreement on a “Jets for Jobs Protocol†that will
provide furloughed American Airlines pilots access to incremental Commuter Jet Captain
positions at the Commuter Carrier. The parties do not intend these discussions to encompass
subjects unrelated to a “Jet for Jobs Protocol†and the implementation of the proposed
relationship.
(3) The parties will engage a mediator/interest-arbitrator to facilitate their discussions. The
mediator/arbitrator will be selected by agreement from a list of interest arbitrators knowledgeable
about airline pilot collective bargaining agreements. If the parties have not reached agreement
within the 30 day period, the mediator/arbitrator will resolve the outstanding issues by issuing an
award within 10 days after the conclusion of the 30 days period.
(4) In forming the award, the arbitrator will utilize the terms of the then-existing Jets for Jobs
type protocols in the airline industry. The Arbitrator will apply those agreements to establish an
industry standard Jets for Jobs protocol for the period of that agreement that is fair to the pilots
and the Company.
(5) The subjects to be considered by the parties and submitted to the arbitrator, if agreement
cannot be reached, shall include, but not be limited to:
(a) The pilots covered by the Protocol;
(B) The vacancies and/or positions at the Commuter Air Carrier covered by the
Protocol;
© Qualifications and eligibility issues;
(d) Procedures for awarding, accepting, and/or rejecting positions;
(e) Rates of Pay;
(f) Administration of the program pursuant to the Protocol; and
(g) Information sharing.
(6) The interest arbitration will be pursuant to the Railway Labor Act.
(7) The arbitration award will be final and binding. The interest arbitrator will retain
jurisdiction to resolve questions and disputes about the implementation of his award.
Sincerely,
Mark L. Burdette
Managing Director, Employee Policy and
Relations
Agreed:
Captain John E. Darrah
Captain John E. Darrah
President
Allied Pilots Association
14600 Trinity Boulevard, Ste 500
Fort Worth, TX 76155
Re: Process For Reaching Jets for Jobs Protocols for Commuter Air Carriers
Dear Captain Darrah:
This letter confirms the parties’ agreement to establish a process of mediation-interest
arbitration to reach Jets for Jobs Protocols for Commuter Air Carriers that become Affiliates of
the Company but are not majority-owned, and Commuter Air Carriers that are not Affiliates but
which enter into franchise-type agreements with the Company.
(1) The Company shall notify the Association at least 30 days in advance of entering into a
relationship under Section 1.D. of the Basic Agreement with a non-owned Commuter Air
Carrier.
(2) The Company and the Association will discuss the proposed relationship for a period of
30 days after the notice in order to reach an agreement on a “Jets for Jobs Protocol†that will
provide furloughed American Airlines pilots access to incremental Commuter Jet Captain
positions at the Commuter Carrier. The parties do not intend these discussions to encompass
subjects unrelated to a “Jet for Jobs Protocol†and the implementation of the proposed
relationship.
(3) The parties will engage a mediator/interest-arbitrator to facilitate their discussions. The
mediator/arbitrator will be selected by agreement from a list of interest arbitrators knowledgeable
about airline pilot collective bargaining agreements. If the parties have not reached agreement
within the 30 day period, the mediator/arbitrator will resolve the outstanding issues by issuing an
award within 10 days after the conclusion of the 30 days period.
(4) In forming the award, the arbitrator will utilize the terms of the then-existing Jets for Jobs
type protocols in the airline industry. The Arbitrator will apply those agreements to establish an
industry standard Jets for Jobs protocol for the period of that agreement that is fair to the pilots
and the Company.
(5) The subjects to be considered by the parties and submitted to the arbitrator, if agreement
cannot be reached, shall include, but not be limited to:
(a) The pilots covered by the Protocol;
(B) The vacancies and/or positions at the Commuter Air Carrier covered by the
Protocol;
© Qualifications and eligibility issues;
(d) Procedures for awarding, accepting, and/or rejecting positions;
(e) Rates of Pay;
(f) Administration of the program pursuant to the Protocol; and
(g) Information sharing.
(6) The interest arbitration will be pursuant to the Railway Labor Act.
(7) The arbitration award will be final and binding. The interest arbitrator will retain
jurisdiction to resolve questions and disputes about the implementation of his award.
Sincerely,
Mark L. Burdette
Managing Director, Employee Policy and
Relations
Agreed:
Captain John E. Darrah
The above are what I have not sure if these represent final drafts so bare with. This stuff should be available to APA pilots on their website.
Trans States has 15 EMJ 145 that we transfered to stay under the 67 cap on aircraft over 45 seats.
I have a copy of your Scope clause.
There is no current plan for AE or AA to take over AX flying the company has spent great deals of money fighting this.
I am frequently skeptical of what ALPA says. I also am skeptical of APA and their ploys.
As you can see there aremany things not fully explained and things dont mean anything if AMR does not but any more CJ700 or EMJ 145's.
Trans States has 15 EMJ 145 that we transfered to stay under the 67 cap on aircraft over 45 seats.
I have a copy of your Scope clause.
There is no current plan for AE or AA to take over AX flying the company has spent great deals of money fighting this.
I am frequently skeptical of what ALPA says. I also am skeptical of APA and their ploys.
As you can see there aremany things not fully explained and things dont mean anything if AMR does not but any more CJ700 or EMJ 145's.
AE ALPA bent over for Carty back in 97 when they signed that 16 year contract. There''s not much left there to go after.
The 50+ jets belong by contract provisions to APA, NOT AE ALPA, which is one of the few things still intact. However, any AA pilots flying those jets will be doing it for userous AE-like compensation.
It''s not hard to see where this is going. Most domestic flying transfered to AE . . . . . or degraded to AE compensation if flying 50+ seat jets.
The 50+ jets belong by contract provisions to APA, NOT AE ALPA, which is one of the few things still intact. However, any AA pilots flying those jets will be doing it for userous AE-like compensation.
It''s not hard to see where this is going. Most domestic flying transfered to AE . . . . . or degraded to AE compensation if flying 50+ seat jets.
What about Eagle mechanics, management. gate agents, baggage handlers. ect.?
AA employees did not get credit for all of the sacrifices made in the past on their backs, therefore I do not see why any other work group should be immune. Including Eagle Pilots!
Shared means Shared, of course we now see management cuts and know that "shared" does NOT mean equal.
AA employees did not get credit for all of the sacrifices made in the past on their backs, therefore I do not see why any other work group should be immune. Including Eagle Pilots!
Shared means Shared, of course we now see management cuts and know that "shared" does NOT mean equal.
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
----------------
On 4/3/2003 8
21 PM Winglet wrote:
AE ALPA bent over for Carty back in 97 when they signed that 16 year contract. There''s not much left there to go after.
The 50+ jets belong by contract provisions to APA, NOT AE ALPA, which is one of the few things still intact. However, any AA pilots flying those jets will be doing it for userous AE-like compensation.
It''s not hard to see where this is going. Most domestic flying transfered to AE . . . . . or degraded to AE compensation if flying 50+ seat jets.
----------------
The mechanics at American Airlines have bent over backward since 1983. It is called the B-Scale.On 4/3/2003 8
21 PM Winglet wrote:AE ALPA bent over for Carty back in 97 when they signed that 16 year contract. There''s not much left there to go after.
The 50+ jets belong by contract provisions to APA, NOT AE ALPA, which is one of the few things still intact. However, any AA pilots flying those jets will be doing it for userous AE-like compensation.
It''s not hard to see where this is going. Most domestic flying transfered to AE . . . . . or degraded to AE compensation if flying 50+ seat jets.
----------------
It has continued year after and contract after contract. It is always the TWU that brings back these contracts and does their best to sell it to the membership. Talk about Shared Sacrifice....
will fix for food
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 664
- 50
----------------
On 4/3/2003 8:46:18 PM RV4 wrote:
What about Eagle mechanics,......
----------------
On 4/3/2003 8:46:18 PM RV4 wrote:
What about Eagle mechanics,......
----------------
Historically, we have been around 85% of your pay. In other words, you guys negotiate a raise, and sometime later we come in and negotiate our raise. Don/t read too much into that, the pay isn/t indexed, it just usually works out that way, although we are on a 12 year scale and you are on a 5.
Prior to your last negotiation we were at 90% of your top-out. If history were to repeat itself we would be getting about a 10 dollar/hour raise in our current negotiations. We have been told unofficially that we will most likely be freezing the scale for another 2 years with no raise. In case you don/t want to do the math our pay will be frozen at 75% of your POST concession pay.
If they were to give us our $10/hour raise and take back 17.5% of it I bet you 99.9% of the guys at Eagle would jump at it. It doesn/t look like we will have it nearly that good though.
Oh yea, no stock for this either.
BTW, the extra 2 years will make this contract 7 years long.
Feel better now AMFA Dave?
will fix for food
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 664
- 50
----------------
On 4/3/2003 3
34 PM RV4 wrote:
Can anyone provide information on the American Eagle portion of the "Shared Sacrifice" recovery plan?
----------------
On 4/3/2003 3
34 PM RV4 wrote: Can anyone provide information on the American Eagle portion of the "Shared Sacrifice" recovery plan?
----------------
If there had been a "Shared Gains" program in the past you might find some sympathy in the Eagle camp. But there wasn/t. The "S--t on Eagle employees" campaign was a resounding success though.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #41
RV4 Eagle is not AA. Eagle is Eagle.
AA needs 1.8 billion. AA not Eagle.
Buck, did you bother to read the AMR Labor coalition post you posted?
Go ahead guys grab you flag, wrap yourselves in it, start the free country chant, and re-read the vermont letter. If the T/A fails to pass, thats where we''ll be. You can take that to the bank.
AA needs 1.8 billion. AA not Eagle.
Buck, did you bother to read the AMR Labor coalition post you posted?
Go ahead guys grab you flag, wrap yourselves in it, start the free country chant, and re-read the vermont letter. If the T/A fails to pass, thats where we''ll be. You can take that to the bank.
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
Leave them alone at Eagle because they don''t make enough?
Who is their union?
And yes I read the AMR Labor Coalition I posted. The point is that it is AMR and that AMR is the one filing or avoiding bankruptcy. If AMR files bankruptcy, is Eagle damaged?
Who is their union?
And yes I read the AMR Labor Coalition I posted. The point is that it is AMR and that AMR is the one filing or avoiding bankruptcy. If AMR files bankruptcy, is Eagle damaged?
Oh, leave them alone! The folks at Eagle make little enough as it is... and, IIRC, that unit of AMR has been *making* money because their costs are low and their ticket prices high. It''s just drowned in the sea of red ink from mainline.
And before someone goes off on the rant of "Then sell Eagle", having it in house beats the daylights out of paying one of the pseudocarriers (Mesa, Chautauqua, et al.) to feed the system. I know it will torque off the pilots, but IMHO Eagle should get to fly more of the little planes; it is in those small-jet-served markets where AA will build a part of its foundation for recovery & continued existence.
TANSTAAFL
And before someone goes off on the rant of "Then sell Eagle", having it in house beats the daylights out of paying one of the pseudocarriers (Mesa, Chautauqua, et al.) to feed the system. I know it will torque off the pilots, but IMHO Eagle should get to fly more of the little planes; it is in those small-jet-served markets where AA will build a part of its foundation for recovery & continued existence.
TANSTAAFL
----------------
On 4/4/2003 12:18:16 PM AAviator wrote:
RV4 Eagle is not AA. Eagle is Eagle.
AA needs 1.8 billion. AA not Eagle.
Buck, did you bother to read the AMR Labor coalition post you posted?
Go ahead guys grab you flag, wrap yourselves in it, start the free country chant, and re-read the vermont letter. If the T/A fails to pass, thats where we'll be. You can take that to the bank.
----------------
My apologies, I thought AMR was going to seek Bankruptcy not just AA?On 4/4/2003 12:18:16 PM AAviator wrote:
RV4 Eagle is not AA. Eagle is Eagle.
AA needs 1.8 billion. AA not Eagle.
Buck, did you bother to read the AMR Labor coalition post you posted?
Go ahead guys grab you flag, wrap yourselves in it, start the free country chant, and re-read the vermont letter. If the T/A fails to pass, thats where we'll be. You can take that to the bank.
----------------
However, read this:
AMR Avoids Bankruptcy with Labor Deals
Monday March 31, 11:43 pm ET
By Kathy Fieweger
NEW YORK (Reuters) - American Airlines averted an imminent bankruptcy filing, at least for now, reaching concession deals on Monday with the leadership at its three major unions.
That means about 70,000 of the roughly 100,000 workers at the world's largest airline will soon be voting on pay cuts, which generally range between 15 percent and 20 percent for some of the largest groups.
The ratification process is expected to take about 15 days and the deals neared the airline's goal of receiving $1.8 billion in annual cuts from its employees.
News of the narrowly averted Chapter 11 filing at
AMR Corp.
(NYSE:AMR - News), the parent of American Airlines, came as a bittersweet victory for Chief Executive Donald Carty and occurred just hours after smaller US Airways emerged from court protection, eight months after filing for bankruptcy.
Of course they are profitable.
AA funds their marketing.
AA funds their management overhead.
AA funds their landing fees.
AA funds their customer website.
AA funds their catering.
AA funds their aircraft.
And now AA is going to fund the concessions.
Holy Christ Batman, if it wasn't for AA they would have red ink also!
"SHARED SACRIFICE MY ASS"!
AA funds their marketing.
AA funds their management overhead.
AA funds their landing fees.
AA funds their customer website.
AA funds their catering.
AA funds their aircraft.
And now AA is going to fund the concessions.
Holy Christ Batman, if it wasn't for AA they would have red ink also!
"SHARED SACRIFICE MY ASS"!
