Seniority/merger

[BottomFeeder]

If it is a takeover of USAIr by AWA, then staple.

If it is a "MERGER" as they claim, then dovetail!

AA purchased TWA, it was not a merger!
The seniority issue for the TWU and IAM was decided by Kasher the arbitrator because both unions agrred to binding arbitration. Kasher gave the TWAers 3 different seniorities depending on location.

He came to his formula like this:

AA was 5 times the size of TWA. So he gave the TWAers 20% seniority. Then he threw in another 5% seniority because of the quote, SYNERGIES", end quote that the purchase brought to AA. The synergies were basically routes that AA did not have.

Now at stations where TWA's PSM's were greater that 25% compared to AA's at those stations, they got 25% seniority. That is 25% to 4/10/01 ) the day AA purchased TWA.) Then after that it's day for day.
These stations ar JFK, LGA, LAX,SFO.

Now at stations that did not meet the 25% criteria, they got 4/10/01 seniority.

At STL and MCI, where AA did not have maintenance or anything of an operation, the TWAers got 100% seniority.
Now, on to the pilots:

AA pilots agreed to dovetail TWA captains, I think, every 7 down to each AA pilot.
I say I think because I am not toally certain of the 7.
AFter the captains were done dovetailing, the TWA pilots essentially got stapled to the bottom.

No lawsuits, end of story.
Now, the Flight Attendants:

TWA f/a's were stapled to the bottom of the AA f/a list.

TWA f/a's lost their lawsuit.
PAX service agents were all stapled as well.

They too lost their lawsuit.

[post="271367"][/post]​

Hopeful,

Thanks for the explaination.

Maybe they change the name form AA to STAPLES.

 

[TWskyliner]

Much luck to the dedicated employee's at both airlines! Remember people are not just numbers. Show the others that you know how to do it right!

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful,

Thanks for the explaination.

Maybe they change the name form AA to STAPLES.

[post="271417"][/post]​

Keep in mind, an arbitrator ruled on TWU/IAM seniority!

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Funny, but the only people I see on here talking about how great and fair this will be is the US people. Reminds me of some lecherous old man trying to talk a virgin into bed..."Relax...you will like it."

 

[firstamendment]

blAAh, blAAh, blAAh..........

 

[flypixs]

I can't see how you guys can talk about a merger here. Just look at the seniority on both sides. US Airways is going to be on top, AWA on the bottom. Sad but true. That's not what the AWA pilots deserve. :down:

 

[ClueByFour]

I can't see how you guys can talk about a merger here. Just look at the seniority on both sides. US Airways is going to be on top, AWA on the bottom. Sad but true. That's not what the AWA pilots deserve. :down:

[post="271549"][/post]​

The pilots will be okay. The "career expectation" portion of the ALPA merger policy will see to it.

It's the HP F/As that will probably get the short end of the stick. I could even see a DFR lawsuit on AWA-CWA if they do in fact use straight DOH and doubly so if any HP FAs are furloughed because of that.

 

[767jetz]

Did UAL pilots deny jumpseat to JetBlue pilots?

A. Yes
B. No
C. It was justified, since only a small group was involved.

[post="271231"][/post]​

D. None of the above.

It's not justified. It was an isolated incident. It is being dealt with accordingly.

There is always the 1% of any group that act like an idiots. Just look at you.

For all we know, the jumpseat rider was said something to get himself removed from the jumpseat. Where you there? Neither was I.

But nice try at twisting facts and blowing it out of proportion. :down:

 

[767jetz]

So are you saying that a aquisition using the " employee's cash" makes it OK to be unfair and bloodthirsty, etc. etc.?????

[post="271226"][/post]​

Fair is in the eye of the beholder. And the eye of the person with the cash.

 

[BottomFeeder]

D. None of the above.

It's not justified. It was an isolated incident. It is being dealt with accordingly.

There is always the 1% of any group that act like an idiots. Just look at you.

For all we know, the jumpseat rider was said something to get himself removed from the jumpseat. Where you there? Neither was I.

But nice try at twisting facts and blowing it out of proportion. :down:

[post="271660"][/post]​

Fact is that there is a problem. So much so that management and ALPA needed to step in and correct the problem.

Try to deny that!

 

[nbmcg01]

I can't see how you guys can talk about a merger here. Just look at the seniority on both sides. US Airways is going to be on top, AWA on the bottom. Sad but true. That's not what the AWA pilots deserve. :down:

[post="271549"][/post]​

I was a union rep, on strike, when TWA acquired OZ. There was much posturing back and forth because of the 5000 full term strikers. Behind the doors we were told from the beginning, "We will give them DOH. It is the right thing to do". We did, and I don't know of one TWA f/a that has ever regreted that decision(at least amongst the full term strikers). We were much more senior than OZ and one of the "proposals" from AFA was 1 for six..1 of our for 6 of theirs. Another, the f/as on the property would be merged and then the full term strikers would be "stapled" in seniority order behind those on the property. That's when we countered with , "We DO have the ability to put you at the bottom"..posturing, nothing more. We were in the middle of the bad faith bagaining trial and Kansas City Federal Court Judge Sachs asked us, Would you really do that?" and the answer is history.."We gave them DOH". The other option, and the one I believe is the true intent of the Allegheny-Mowhawk is a % slotting. (and I will use AA for example and my own seniority) I was Jan., '70 and at AA would be approximately 1200 out of 24,000 with DOH. At TWA, I was around 700 out of 4500. My feeling is at the very least, I should have been slotted at the % I was at TWA. Remember, assets are purchased, operations and employees are merged. What the Unions need to do is come to an agreement with mangt. re: a no furlough policy. I can assure you that if the APFA at AA had awarded us any credit for our experience, they would have fought like hell to save jobs during the concessions. We were simply furlough fodder and the Union didn't even have enough negotiating experience to get "credit" for the loss of "our" heads. In addition, they GAVE away furlough pay because the APFA President was furious that AA had given the ztwa f/as pay seniority. (even though with their pay increase, we lost money because of the loss of our 401K contributions, free medical insurance, and more restrictive work rules) You all CAN do this with both coming out in a win-win. What you will find is if you were senior before, you'll still be senior. If you were junior before, you'll still be junior. I never looked at bid awards and said, "Dang if we had only stapled OZ, I would have been able to hold that line (or flight)" We (the former TWA f/as) are all wishing you both mush success and a peaceful transition.

 

[nycbusdriver]

...I say there are far more positives to this possible deal than negatives....ESPECIALLY if it means that the US senior mgmt. in Arlington is kicked to the curb and if it means Jerry Glass has to find another group of employees to terrorize.

[post="270757"][/post]​

I think NWA should watch out. When Jerry gets the boot, I suspect NWA will want him to work his evil magic over there. He already has several buddies (including Neal "I-Don't-Know-What-My-Salary-Is" Cohen) at NWA HQ. He will needed to drag those employees into the gutter like he did at USAirways.

 

[North by Northwest]

He has ONE buddy at NWA...period, and we are not happy about that one. On another note:regarding TWA "Remember, assets are purchased, operations and employees are merged" This is a statement of delusions of grandur. TWA was finished and was simply liquidated. By the good fortuntions of fate you were given a JOB and decent PAY. TWA's ONLY other option was the unemployment line with NOTHING and NO JOB. That was the sad reality that ungratful TWA people harp about over and over again. Just what did you take to the employees of AA? Routes from countries with open skies agreements? Assets that hadn't turned a profit since 1986? You expect to go to an airline that employees built with their own sacrafices and reap the rewards? Hardly. You were in the SAME situation as Braniff, OUT of cash and OUT of air. RIP. Sorry to be so harsh, but it is reality. Your expectations... were of hitting the lottery jackpot. Had the situation been reversed, there is no way this side of hell TWA fAs would have allowed a bankrupt (and pending liquidation) airline to come in and take DOH.

 

[exagony]

The pilots will be okay. The "career expectation" portion of the ALPA merger policy will see to it.

Well the U pilot's career expectations are "unemployment line within 1 year without a merger" and AWA's expectation is to still be in bx in one year. Therefore it looks like a staple of all U employees at the bottom of the AWA list is the only fair way.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Fair is in the eye of the beholder. And the eye of the person with the cash.

[post="271662"][/post]​

767jetz,

Using your rule of acceptable screwing.

J.O. of Mesa comes tomorrow and buys UAL. Then you will be 100% accepting and also an advocate, of being STAPLED to the bottom of their list?