Seniority/merger

[MCI transplant]

You seem to forget that HP did not have that blood sucking, cash draining Ichan ticket deal like TWA did. It is highly doubtful TWA would have survived the calamities of the last few years with Karabu still in place. It is also highly doubtful that TWA would have gotten an ATSB loan like HP did because of karabu. Yes, you had one of the youngest fleets in the industry but you were paying 2 to 3 times the market rate for the leases. As far as the potential HP/TW deal, look at how apprehensive HP people are now over this merger. It would have been the same with TW in that they would have feared your very high TW seniority. Air Tran looked over TW and ran like hell the other way. No one was going to buy TWA "as is" and infect themselves with the "karabu disease".

[post="271870"][/post]​

<_< I'm glad to see your expert "opinon" on what was, or what could of been!!! As it is just that, and nothing more! Your "opinon"! The point the man was making is that TWA Dovetailed Ozark! I think the term is "DOH"!!! Not only that Icahn tryed to stapel them, and pay them a "B" scale wages! In fact their first paycheck reflected that! IT DIDN"T HAPPEN!!!!! And the deal, the man was refurring to, that was on the table at the time, wasn't with another Airline, so karabu wouldn't have been a factor anyway!!!

 

[aafsc]

<_< I'm glad to see your expert "opinon" on what was, or what could of been!!! As it is just that, and nothing more! Your "opinon"! The point the man was making is that TWA Dovetailed Ozark! I think the term is "DOH"!!! Not only that Icahn tryed to stapel them, and pay them a "B" scale wages! In fact their first paycheck reflected that! IT DIDN"T HAPPEN!!!!!

[post="272104"][/post]​

Was a "B scale" in your contract at that time? I think the reason the IAM dictated dovetail of the Ozark people, against the wishes of the TWA IAM AMTs and ramp I might add, was for 2 reasons. 1. The amounts of dues would be greater with dovetailing the Ozarkers and 2. They did not want to set a precendent of letting companies cut the pay of the employees of aquired carriers by stapling.Your payscale at AA gives you your credit for your time with TWA; all you senior people from TWA are at top pay at AA. So Carty did not do to you what Icahn tried to do with the Ozark people, You all got a large hourly wage raise when you came to AA. You just did not get your occupational seniority everywhere; so you can't bump AA people out of their bases.

 

[BusFlt321]

It really does not matter how we merge the pilot list...since over 50% of us U pilots will be retired within 5 years....in 5 years fewer than 1000 U pilots will remain on the merged seniority list.

 

[nbmcg01]

767Jetz:

What does it really matter anyway? Anyone who
is displaced in the merger will receive some
kind of severance payout, and will be entitled to
unemployment. You union types really need
to settle down and accept the merger for what
it is, and not worry so much about "what's in
it for me?"

[post="272056"][/post]​

Oh really...tell that to the 2000 former TWA f/as, some with up to 49 years of seniority, experience, longevity, that were furloughed without one penny. This was all because a vindictive Union "leader" was "fussy" that AA had given us pay seniority. We also did not get the extended unemployment that the others received.( because of 9-11 related layoffs) We missed it by 1 day because our furlough started on 7-2 instead of 7-1. I hope that HP and US will not experience the lack of representation we received. (from both the IAM and then the APFA)

 

[MCI transplant]

Was a "B scale" in your contract at that time? I think the reason the IAM dictated dovetail of the Ozark people, against the wishes of the TWA IAM AMTs and ramp I might add, was for 2 reasons. 1. The amounts of dues would be greater with dovetailing the Ozarkers and 2. They did not want to set a precendent of letting companies cut the pay of the employees of aquired carriers by stapling.Your payscale at AA gives you your credit for your time with TWA; all you senior people from TWA are at top pay at AA. So Carty did not do to you what Icahn tried to do with the Ozark people, You all got a large hourly wage raise when you came to AA. You just did not get your occupational seniority everywhere; so you can't bump AA people out of their bases.

[post="272106"][/post]​

<_< aa---- It seems the whole Airline Industry knows what really happened with the aa/TWA buyout! And as much as you'de like to put your own spin on it, it still comes out the same way! They don't call american airlines "Sky Natzi" for no reason! Sorry aa, but these people have you nailed!!!!!

 

[aafsc]

<_< aa---- It seems the whole Airline Industry knows what really happened with the aa/TWA buyout! And as much as you'de like to put your own spin on it, it still comes out the same way! They don't call american airlines "Sky Natzi" for no reason! Sorry aa, but these people have you nailed!!!!!

[post="272200"][/post]​

The whole industry knows that you signed away your LPPs requiring binding arbitration but yet got them back anyway. The whole industry knows that the TWA-IAM/AA-TWU went to binding arbitration. The whole industry knows how the arbitrator ruled. And the whole industry knows you were looking for an undeserved seniority windfall at the nAAtives' expense. By the way, it looks like you lost your latest grievance.

 

[jj]

lets get to reality folks AA knows they set a bad precedent for the airline indusrty as a whole.TWA did the right thing with OZARK i wish the AA poeople would take a lesson.What comes around goes around.

 

[aafsc]

lets get to reality folks AA knows they set a bad precedent for the airline indusrty as a whole.TWA did the right thing with OZARK i wish the AA poeople would take a lesson.What comes around goes around.

[post="272304"][/post]​

Why do you TWAers keep denying reality? WE WENT TO BINDING ARBITRATION AND THE ARBITRATOR RULED. WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS? We nAAtives were not just going to volunteer to pay the price for YOUR airline's failure. And for the millionth time, YOU DID NOT WANT TO GIVE THE OZARK PEOPLE THEIR SENIORITY, THE IAM DICTATED THAT YOU DO SO. So we did take a lesson from the TWAers, it is just that we were successful in arbitration in terms of not letting you have your seniority at our bases (hubs) as to where you were NOT successful in your desire to staple the Ozark people.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Why do you TWAers keep denying reality? WE WENT TO BINDING ARBITRATION AND THE ARBITRATOR RULED. WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS? We nAAtives were not just going to volunteer to pay the price for YOUR airline's failure. And for the millionth time, YOU DID NOT WANT TO GIVE THE OZARK PEOPLE THEIR SENIORITY, THE IAM DICTATED THAT YOU DO SO. So we did take a lesson from the TWAers, it is just that we were successful in arbitration in terms of not letting you have your seniority at our bases (hubs) as to where you were NOT successful in your desire to staple the Ozark people.

[post="272347"][/post]​

Sky NAAzi.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Sky NAAzi.

[post="272352"][/post]​

Following the old truism I see:

"When intelligence and logic fail, resort to name-calling."

Pathetic.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Sky NAAzi.

[post="272352"][/post]​

So anyone who buys a dead airline and keeps them from going chapter 7 is now called a "SKY NAAZI". I'll bet this time next year AWA people will be called "SKY NAWAZI's". AWA needs to merge with another airline, but USAIR isn't the one they should be merging with. USAIR destroyed PSA and PEIDMONT and now has AWA in it's tentacles!

 

[aafsc]

Following the old truism I see:

"When intelligence and logic fail, resort to name-calling."

Pathetic.

[post="272373"][/post]​

Did you expect anything different? He and his company are in the same position the TWAers were in.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Did you expect anything different? He and his company are in the same position the TWAers were in.

[post="272404"][/post]​

You are so right, aafsc.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

I'll bet this time next year AWA people will be called "SKY NAWAZI's".

[post="272376"][/post]​

Good one, Princess.

 

[twambassador]

Once again, I think what TWAers are angry at is not so much that they got stapled, but the fact that AA lied to them. We were told that we were going to get a "fair and equitable" seniority integration. If AA was honest about how they planned on merging the work groups, NOT A SINGLE employee would have supported this transaction.

So the lesson here for HP and US is be fair, treat each other with respect and dignity, and don't let history repeat itself.