Senior Management''s Bankrupcy-Exempt Irrevocable Trust Retirement Fund

[RV4]

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On 4/16/2003 11:12:14 AM eolesen wrote:

I guess being financially prudent doesn''t count for much anymore. Would you prefer that the company be able to pull money out at will from retirement funds to support day-to-day needs?...

This trust is just like the supplementary plans that exist for the pilots, and needed the same protection that existed for other retirement obligations.
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Does the definition of "financially prudent" in your mind include paying management to use company computers and time to post on and read internet bulletin boards?

 

[Mach85ER]

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On 4/16/2003 11:12:14 AM eolesen wrote:

I guess being financially prudent doesn''t count for much anymore. Would you prefer that the company be able to pull money out at will from retirement funds to support day-to-day needs?...

This trust is just like the supplementary plans that exist for the pilots, and needed the same protection that existed for other retirement obligations.



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I guess I expected more from you eolesen. Your answer is absolutely pathetic and is typical of brainless AA management, and without a shred of leadership ability.

Financially prudence has nothing to do with it. The pilots "B" fund is 11% of pay that is protected. The pilots "A" fund is not protected and is underfunded and at risk in a Chapter 11 and worthless in Chapter 7. The "B" fund has been protected for over 20 years in contract language, eolesen. The management trust was formed last October, see any difference? To imply any similarity is fraudulent.

Now we know why the 10K was delayed until voting was over.


The word "scum" has redefined.

 

[AOA]

Here''s a link to an MSNBC report on the trust. It gets very interesting towards the end, concerning the timing of the SEC extension request, etc.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/901184.asp

 

[atabuy]

All airline management are like parents. They watch over you. Make sure you do your chores and set down the rules.

You have all heard this one:
Do as I say. Not as I do.

It used to be that management went into these high level positions with the knowledge that if they could not do the job, they would lose it and all compensation with it.
Since the market really has no watchdog to cover these atrocities, high level management just robs the bank whenever they want to.
Performance is not a problem for these guys anymore.

They would have been the first ones in the lifeboats, if they had been on the Titanic.

So much for we are all in this together. Huh?

I thought stealing was a firing offence.

 

[atabuy]

AMR, based in Fort Worth, Texas, had delayed filing the report because the company was negotiating pay and benefit cuts with its unions. The filing coincided with the scheduled end of voting by workers to ratify $1.8 billion worth of concessions to avoid a bankruptcy filing.


Now why would anyone think it would matter when they filed this?
Do you think they knew it was wrong?

Whatever happened to full disclosure?

Let me ask the question from my last post again:

Are you guys all in this together?

 

[JFK777]

Senior executive or not, everyone''s pension safe from creditors. Any vested interest anyone has in a plan is their''s. Pan Am and Eastern employees got their pension. Some got less then they were "due" but the plans were underfunded too. The reality of BK sucks for everyone but pensions are unattachable by creditors so all is not lost.

 

[WXGuesser]

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On 4/17/2003 3:44:15 AM atabuy wrote:


It used to be that management went into these high level positions with the knowledge that if they could not do the job, they would lose it and all compensation with it.
Since the market really has no watchdog to cover these atrocities, high level management just robs the bank whenever they want to.
Performance is not a problem for these guys anymore.

They would have been the first ones in the lifeboats, if they had been on the Titanic.

So much for we are all in this together. Huh?

I thought stealing was a firing offence.

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And they are different from management in any company how? This is the way it is in ANY company nowadays. Just because it is unethical doesn''t mean it''s illegal. And there isn''t a damn thing we can do about it. We have no way to "punish" management. Even if this "pension fund" hadn''t been done, what could we have done? Even if someone is forced to leave management, they will get snapped up by someone else. Look at the numerous folks involved in the USAir/United fiasco. Most of them have ended up somewhere. It''s all a big game to them.

Life is not fair. Life is pain. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something.

TANSTAAFL

 

[limit]

TO: All TWU/AA Members

Dear Sisters & Brothers:

Yesterday, as contract ratification for all three union groups was being completed, the Company made a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission, indicating it had established a special pension fund for its executives. The existence of this fund was never revealed to our consultants while they examined AA's books, nor were we informed of it in the bargaining which led to the concessions we agreed to in order to avoid a bankruptcy. We regard the failure to timely disclose the existence of this fund in bargaining by American as a material breach of its obligations to provide relevant information.

The concessions our members barely ratified the other day were based on the premise of shared sacrifice. This fund is the opposite of shared sacrifice and calls into question the basis of each of our contracts. We have signed no new agreement, and in light of the disclosure in AA's SEC filing, we must reconsider whether we will sign off, even if the consequence is a bankruptcy. Unless the Company reforms itself on the issue of executive compensation, there is no basis to cooperate in its effort to survive.

Sincerely & fraternally,




James C. Little
Director Air Transport Division
Intl. Administrative Vice President


Posturing?



In any case anyone that suggests that since life is not fair,actions are unethical but not illegal,and you guys should stop selling something or try to state or change what you consider an injustice ,is a prime example of the reasons all those actions are part of our societies.
This AA management decision is A Very Poor Example in judgement .

 

[KCFlyer]

Oh fedup, you've gone and outed him. Too bad most of us already knew his name.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

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On 4/17/2003 3:22:10 PM Connected1 wrote:

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No need to stop acting like a lady! How about for a change of pace you start showing a little bit of class?You''re ripe for a Rule 32 investigation as it is.
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And the whole of the AMR executive is ripe for criminal indictments for embezzlement . . .but oh what the hell . . .

***** ***** ***** ***** *****

 

[Connected1]

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On 4/17/2003 3:12:57 PM fedup wrote:

I will look for you on my flight dear Eric, just don''t eat anything your served from now on!
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No need to stop acting like a lady! How about for a change of pace you start showing a little bit of class? You''re ripe for a Rule 32 investigation as it is.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

Its not like I use my real name around here or anything. But if you''re going to try to out someone, at least get the phone number right.

Feel free to call collect from home if you don''t have an ICS line. I''d love to hear from you.

 

[Bob Owens]

Dont forget the dingle berries and fromunda cheese?

 

[fedup]

Who are you connected1? Rule 32? I haven''t read that one yet. HOw abpout Eric stop taking joy in others misfortune? No I personally wpuld not serve him anything like GBS, but believe me their are plenty who would. And do you know if I am a woman or a man? I REALLY DON''T THINK YOU DO.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 4/17/2003 5:58:53 AM JFK777 wrote:

Senior executive or not, everyone''s pension safe from creditors. Any vested interest anyone has in a plan is their''s. Pan Am and Eastern employees got their pension. Some got less then they were "due" but the plans were underfunded too. The reality of BK sucks for everyone but pensions are unattachable by creditors so all is not lost.

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I believe that this was a supplimental pension. I doubt the PPGC would guarantee pensions in that were annually in the six figures.