Schnurman: American Airlines pilots need a reality check

[Ralph]

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[Itestwell]

Very sad commentary. F/A's need what, maybe a high school education and a week or so to figure out how to not blow a slide? Reading this board, it seems like you then want to be the equal of pilots and in charge of pilot compensation decisions, because 'I've been 'flying' 30 years longer than the captain.' I think 'flying' has more than one definition here. In too many cases, an f/a does not have 50 years experience, they have, sadly, 1 yrs experience 50 times. What exactly qualifies you to comment on pilot matters anyway? How about you worry more about doing your job, as AA's ratings consistently show that those stats would greatly improve if Coke machines were installed on board instead.

Again, most FA's at most understand that, and respect that. Seems to be a problem for some on here, though...

Still kills me that some are more concerned about pilots getting a holiday or a biz class seat before FAs, as opposed to what the APFA is doing to secure an industry leading contract...

 

[tfc767]

Guinness767, SPOT ON. Thanks.

And to all the F/As I have the pleasure of working with - thanks for all that you do. You are appreciated far more than we let on. Sure we have a few bad apples, but that definitely applies to the pilots too.

tfc

 

[FA Mikey]

Again, most FA's at most understand that, and respect that. Seems to be a problem for some on here, though...

Still kills me that some are more concerned about pilots getting a holiday or a biz class seat before FAs, as opposed to what the APFA is doing to secure an industry leading contract...

As compared to whom? We already have an industry leading contract compared to usair and the rest.

 

[Itestwell]

As compared to whom? We already have an industry leading contract compared to usair and the rest.

Oh. Ok. After reading the threads on here, I thought that AA FAs were not exactly thrilled with their current contract. My bad. Good to hear you are content with your current industry leading contract, and with the how the APFA represents you. 😉

 

[Bob Owens]

I think the pilots know exactly what they are doing and are sitting back wondering what the other unions are thinking.

Last year AA took in $23,7billion.Their largest revenue EVER.

Fuel however went from $6.670Billion to $9 Billion, but since then fuel has dropped by nearly two thirds, so AA may spend under $5 billion this year on fuel.

AA had other unusual expenses that they won’t likely see again in 2009, they wrote off $1,2 billion in "Special Charges", an increase of over $1.1 billion from the year before, but that’s not the only place that AA hid all that extra revenue, AA has been slapping winglets on their Boeings (to lower fuel consumption), buying $750,000 pushback tractors that they can’t use, and buying back parts for dollars on the penny compared to what they sold them for a few years back. This helped increase their maintenance costs on their reduced fleet by another $180 million. They had less planes to maintain but they spent more than ever before.These costs are not recurring.

Lately they have been reporting that advanced bookings are alarmingly low but according to an ATA news release they are only down 2.5%, yes two-point-five percent year over year on a capacity reduction of at least 5.5%.

I've flown almost weekly since Jan 1, nearly every flight was full and they look that way as far as I can see into the future.

Cargo ton miles went down but yield for cargo went up 12%, they moved less cargo but made more money on the cargo they moved.

Their ASMs went down around 4% but their Yield went up by almost 9%.



So when you take out all the unusual expenses AA is looking pretty good. In fact their expenses could be $6 billion less in 2009 than it was in 2008. With all those unusual expenses, AAs losses for 2008 were only $2billion. So if AA wasnt able to hide that extra $1.577 billion they would have only lost around $423 million. If Fuel was the same price in 2008 as it is now they wouldnt have been able to spend it fast enough, they would have turned at least a $2billion profit for the year.

That leaves AA with a possible $5 billion profit for 2009,but I'm sure they will find some way to hide it before the workers see it and demand their concessions back.

If AMR signed contracts with all three unions tomorrow their stock would go from $3/share today to $30/share by the end of the year.

 

[butchord45]

Oh. Ok. After reading the threads on here, I thought that AA FAs were not exactly thrilled with their current contract. My bad. Good to hear you are content with your current industry leading contract, and with the how the APFA represents you. 😉

It is not a matter of their work rules, or their pay , or their pension. Whatever they negotiate in those areas by all means get all you can get.

But when you start negotiating front of the line passes etc. at the detriment of other employees that are company wide benefits to begin with that is where we start to question it.

It is like letting your senior management wherever you work...drink from the drinking fountain first. Or Eat from the buffet table first at the company picnic. Or let them go see the doctor first before the rest of us can get an appointment.

Simplified examples yes but you get the point....I think.

 

[Mach85ER]

It is not a matter of their work rules, or their pay , or their pension. Whatever they negotiate in those areas by all means get all you can get.

But when you start negotiating front of the line passes etc. at the detriment of other employees that are company wide benefits to begin with that is where we start to question it.

It is like letting your senior management wherever you work...drink from the drinking fountain first. Or Eat from the buffet table first at the company picnic. Or let them go see the doctor first before the rest of us can get an appointment.

Simplified examples yes but you get the point....I think.

Yet you and nearly this entire company feels that the pilot's should always give back more ($$ and %) than the other groups. "We're all equal" is always the cheer from your group, that is until it's time to pay the check.

 

[butchord45]

Yet you and nearly this entire company feels that the pilot's should always give back more ($$ and %) than the other groups. "We're all equal" is always the cheer from your group, that is until it's time to pay the check.

Where did I say that???

I do think the percentages should be the same. I give 10% you give 10 %. and someone making less than me gives 10 %.

By that nature yes you will give more. And I will give more than the ones below me.

Butch ( I don't know where you read that I think you should give more by percentage than we do.)

 

[AAStew]

Mach85er, Give me a break on what you are doing in ops. I have been there enough with you guys to know it doesn't take that long. Why some of your pilots can even get that done and walk to the gate with us! As far us the other things I mentioned why didn't you cover those? And what in the world are you talking about us and the blankets? I fly INTL and I make sure every seat has one, even if it means taking one back from the FB!
What about the other points I covered, like not staying on the airplane until the passenger disembark? Are you exempt from this? One of the greatest Captains I have ever met Tony Valillo was an exemplary example of leadership and customer service. Many of our older captains that have retired were true leaders and gentlemen. They looked out for their crew and their passengers. They earned our respect.
As for calling you stupid, please reread my post, I said "stupid things" asked for. But if you want to claim the title of stupid, by all means go ahead. Oh and my quote about the little lady, get off your high horse.
And furthermore reread how I defended your right to pay. You have a chip on your shoulder the size of Mt Rushmore, but then that is what people tend to do when they know they need to compensate for areas in which they are lacking.
Oh and yeah, your postings epitomize the kind of cockpit crew we love to hate. All I can say, is thank God they are not all like you. Yet those like you really stink up the pot.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

Bob, I have a hard time reconciling your anecdotal evidence of "the planes are full" with the hard numbers showing declining load factors, RASM and soft future bookings. Every day I see a new article or IATA forecast saying what a God-awful year this will be for airlines. Just about everyone is bleeding cash in this environment despite the drop in fuel.

Your numbers are off. The pilots are asking for money that isn't there. Especially considering that AA needs max liquidity in case it can't easily roll over debts coming due in the next 12-18 months.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, I have a hard time reconciling your anecdotal evidence of "the planes are full" with the hard numbers showing declining load factors, RASM and soft future bookings. Every day I see a new article or IATA forecast saying what a God-awful year this will be for airlines. Just about everyone is bleeding cash in this environment despite the drop in fuel.

Your numbers are off. The pilots are asking for money that isn't there. Especially considering that AA needs max liquidity in case it can't easily roll over debts coming due in the next 12-18 months.

My numbers are from AAs own press release. Look at their 4th quarter release that came out Jan 21, 2009.

The IATA is the lobbyist for International airlines, their release said that US based airlines should post around $100 million in profits this year,if you read the whole story you would have seen that.

Soft future bookings? The ATA-the domestic lobbying group for the airlines, reported that AAs future bookings were down 2.5%, two point five year over year. When you look at the fact that AA has reduced capacity by at least 5.5% thats not a problem.

23,7 billion in revenue, $6.65 Billion for labor. Labor costs as a percentage of total costs are the lowest they have EVER been. They have the money, they just choose to spend it elsewhere.

 

[FA Mikey]

Airline Industry Seen Losing $4.7 Billion in 2009


story here

NEW YORK -- The International Air Transport Association significantly expanded its industry-loss forecast Tuesday, reflecting expectations for a heavy slump in travel for the Asian-Pacific, Europe and Latin America regions.

For 2009, the IATA said it now expects an aggregate industry loss of $4.7 billion, compared to a loss of $2.5 billion that it forecast in December.

"The state of the airline industry today is grim," said Giovanni Bisignani, head of the trade group. "Demand has deteriorated much more rapidly with the economic slowdown than ...

 

[Bob Owens]

FA Mikey

Read the whole story here:

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10476846/1/...E&cm_ite=NA

"IATA also said that North American carriers are an exception and are expected to deliver a combined $100 million profit for the year, thanks to capacity cuts and savings on fuel."

You have to remember that these organizations are lobbyists for the airline industry, not consumer groups or government entities and certainly not an ally of labor.

 

[tfc767]

Bob, I have a hard time reconciling your anecdotal evidence of "the planes are full" with the hard numbers showing declining load factors, RASM and soft future bookings. Every day I see a new article or IATA forecast saying what a God-awful year this will be for airlines. Just about everyone is bleeding cash in this environment despite the drop in fuel.

Your numbers are off. The pilots are asking for money that isn't there. Especially considering that AA needs max liquidity in case it can't easily roll over debts coming due in the next 12-18 months.

And meanwhile, AA executive compensation has increased 400% since 1992, while the pilots still work for 1992 wages. Wow, tough argument. Sounds like a real liquidity crunch.

FUPM!