Now do you understand how STUPID you and I are Stew? Had it not been for the sky Gods we wouldnt have all the benefits we have today. Only the self absorbed pilots and there quest to better themselves gave us what we have. Who needs APFA, lets just wait and see what the pilots having Superbowl Sunday as a holiday does for us. Waiting with bated breath
Schnurman: American Airlines pilots need a reality check
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I just have one question: Why aren't the FA's worrying about what the APFA is (or is not?) negotiating for them, instead of being envious of the pilots, and all that they have? Wouldn't that be a more prudent use of your time?
No, they want to be treated as leaders but they are not.
They don't board the airplane until the last moments. They don't greet the customers. When one does come early, it is to grab as many pillows, blankets and free newspapers as possible. They don't keep passengers updated as to what is going on. They refuse to make prudent safety decisions if it affects their bottom dollar. Upon landing they are the first off the airplane, forget about thanking the passengers. At the hotel, the leader would make sure that everyone has their room before they retire to their own room. I have evidenced very little leadership.
As for boarding priorities, if you were requesting it solely to be in front of non-employee groups I would understand, but you wanted priority in front of the people you "lead".
And as far as being called stupid Mach85er, I defended your sorry ass as far as salaries a few posts back, that is merited. Respect is earned. So you may call us whatever names you want, you are still not a leader.
They don't board the airplane until the last moments. They don't greet the customers. When one does come early, it is to grab as many pillows, blankets and free newspapers as possible. They don't keep passengers updated as to what is going on. They refuse to make prudent safety decisions if it affects their bottom dollar. Upon landing they are the first off the airplane, forget about thanking the passengers. At the hotel, the leader would make sure that everyone has their room before they retire to their own room. I have evidenced very little leadership.
As for boarding priorities, if you were requesting it solely to be in front of non-employee groups I would understand, but you wanted priority in front of the people you "lead".
And as far as being called stupid Mach85er, I defended your sorry ass as far as salaries a few posts back, that is merited. Respect is earned. So you may call us whatever names you want, you are still not a leader.
Oh, it's fun to post wherever I want. Besides, it's exciting over here!
Just don't understand why you care what the pilots attain. Would not it be irresponsible of pilot negotiators to not "reach for the stars"? That would be the type of negotiators I'd hope I would have....butchord45
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- Jun 22, 2008
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Oh, it's fun to post wherever I want. Besides, it's exciting over here!
I am all for the pilots negotiating all they can get. I always tell the APFA to stop with the "me too" clauses and negotiate our contract, and not have it dependant on some other contract. I too was all in on voting no on the restructuring agreement. But our leaders said the vote came back yes. Yet you can't find nearly anyone who said they voted yes. Just speculating here but maybe it was because they were convinced to change the vote so that....BK would be avoided....and certain valuable pensions protected. Our APFA pensions are not that valuable. So it really wasn't our pensions that they were trying to protect. Who's was it?? Probably pensions that are worth more than the pension board is willing to guarantee.
Finally. A flight attendant that gets it. I was worried for a second!
Not really. Most corporations in 1990 had Direct Deposit for several years. AA did not, and one big reason was that Crandall knew that 30,000 pilots and FA's would take an average of 2 weeks to clear their paychecks since they were left in a paycheck drawer at the crewbases. During the 1990-1991 negotiations, Crandall said, "if you want DD, pay me the $200K (appx) a year we earn in interest float" Do the math. You're welcome even though a few here would drown in their bile than admit the pilots got them something.
Yea but they were paying companies fees to provide check cashing services on site. In New York they had an Armored car come to the hangar every week to give us cash as was required by New York State law. Most of us took the cash even if we then deposited it in our banks. My guess is the fees were more than the company would save through late deposits. Plus the lost time of having people waiting on line to cash their checks while on the clock. Lets not forget all the retirees that had their checks mailed to them. Something Crandal probably left out. You should know how this copmany bargains with their workers, Win-Win, they get us to give them concessions by making believe we are getting something for it.
Mikey
First of all, I'm against the Superbowl request. It was a "fart" in an otherwise comprehensive opener. It's a lightning rod that should be removed as I have stated to my reps.
We negotiate for the pilots. The DD was an example of "one" thing that other airline groups got. The pass travel was aimed the same way. It was badly handled and should have been coordinated with APFA.
I also didn't originate the word "stupid" on this board. I also didn't allude to FA's not "getting any" because their spouse might be tired. AAStew never has a problem with the zingers aimed at the pilots, including calling me a "sorry ass". Try not screwing yourselves into the ceiling when one is returned.
AAStew,
Our sign in is 60 minutes prior. Much of our preflight is in ops, that is why the CA and FO end up at the a/c 30 minutes prior. The FB heads down early, and yes, grabs the pillows and blankets from the pilot rest seat since they won't be around to offer a "warm response :angry: " to the pax grabbing them like the FA's do. We've also seen more than enough bales of newspapers left on the closet floor instead of being offered to the pax.
As for customer service issues? Give the group a break. Run AA's inflight service rankings for the last decade before you even think of another bitter tirade regarding pilots customer service.
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I figure it's a better system than exists now where the 20% of your group spin themselves up for 8 hours down to GRU, then run to the airport on an early bus to ace out a 30 year Captain. That's what happens when nobody is in charge. It turns into a backbiting free for all typical of AA
Pretty chicken^%$# move, huh?
What about assigning DH seats based the NS , or at least by company seniority?
Anything that eliminated the cs maneuvering and recognized seniority over having access to a computer, early bus, or friend(ly) agent would be an improvement.
"...backbiting free for all typical of AA" Mgmt must love this stuff...
Pretty chicken^%$# move, huh?
What about assigning DH seats based the NS , or at least by company seniority?
Anything that eliminated the cs maneuvering and recognized seniority over having access to a computer, early bus, or friend(ly) agent would be an improvement.
"...backbiting free for all typical of AA" Mgmt must love this stuff...
butchord45
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- Jun 22, 2008
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The point is that it was inevitable to be a benefit throughout the company whether or not the pilots put it in their negotiations. Similar to when we were negotiating for partnership passes and benefits, and it turned out that those benefits were offered company wide anyway before our negotiations were through. Much like a certain other dinosaur that is becoming extinct yet we (all the work groups) refuse to budge on. Any guesses as to what that is????
Guinness767
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- Feb 15, 2008
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Very sad commentary. F/A's need what, maybe a high school education and a week or so to figure out how to not blow a slide? Reading this board, it seems like you then want to be the equal of pilots and in charge of pilot compensation decisions, because 'I've been 'flying' 30 years longer than the captain.' I think 'flying' has more than one definition here. In too many cases, an f/a does not have 50 years experience, they have, sadly, 1 yrs experience 50 times. What exactly qualifies you to comment on pilot matters anyway? How about you worry more about doing your job, as AA's ratings consistently show that those stats would greatly improve if Coke machines were installed on board instead.
Airline managements use the other employees, the press and the public to do there dirty work for them in their quest to up their bonuses at the expense of the employees. They rev up your sense of outrage against pilots and foster a 'we're all the same' mentality for everyone except management And you fall right in line. It starts with the pilots and flows down from there. You help them knock down pilot wages and benefits and then wonder as your own wages and benefits are knocked down in turn to keep them in line with the new paradigm. Good move, congratulations!
It takes just a little more effort to get hired as a pilot at a major airline and the job comes with a little more responsibility. Just because pilots make it look easy does not mean it is easy. In prior days here and at many airlines overseas today, pilots are ranked with senior management as far as where they fit into the corporate structure and rightly so. Here, you are doing your best help AA management to dumb it down to the lowest common denominator out of some weird twist of envy. You want all the captain perqs with none of his responsibility and want to ignore what it takes to get where he is. If you can't have what he has, you want it taken away from him. The captain signs for the plane and makes sure that throughout his career, no matter what, that his landings and takeoffs equal each other in the final tally. In my book that is worth plenty, its sad you don't feel the same, considering you spend so much time riding right behind him.
So the pilots want to get back to where they used to be, wow what a concept. Until that happens, forget the 'raise' stuff, it is just an attempt at restoration. And then they want to keep up with the cost of living, OMG!
You want this industry to keep being dumbed down, good luck. I feel certain they can replace a senior mama with an 18 year old and things would probably be ok, in fact they may even improve. Do the same in the front and I am not so sure. The facts are beginning to speak for themselves, just read up on some of the recent accidents and incidents in the commuters or on some of the foreign low cost carriers that pay crap wages. You don't get as many sharp people entering the career field these days, understandably. A sharp guy isn't going to become a pilot for the career path you advocate. Not when being a plumber, or any of a number of other jobs, pays far more, without the cost of entry and training, the responsibility and the time away from family. Not to mention the medical requirements and the constant evaluations, etc, etc. The guys entering the field will not be the ones you might want up there when things go wrong. Sully and the other experienced pilots are here in spite of the cuts and the decimation of this career because they have too much invested in time and effort to start over at something else, so they stick it out. That keeps the majors' planes mostly out of the weeds for now. The question is, who is going to take Sully's place when the rewards for flying are just not there? When the military guys don't come here and the civilian guys who do are the ones who tossed a coin and then checked pilot instead of flight attendant or ceo on the application, are you still going to be comfortable putting your family on board some stormy night heading to Buffalo with that 300hr wonder up front?
Bottom line is that the management instigated pilot bashing does not help you, them or the folks who will be flying on board in the years ahead. Does help the short term 'managers' who come and go and pump up their resume cutting wages and benefits to be competitive.
As far as the passenger comments here, why are you commenting on something you know even less about than f/a's, if that is even possible? SWA pilots are the highest paid pilots around, why aren't you bitching about that constantly? What would it cost you to restore the lost AA pilots' wages? Probably what, about 5-6$ a ticket. Certainly far less than the tip you hand to the taxi driver who takes you to the airport. It always strikes me as funny that if a guy gets in trouble he does not want the cheapest lawyer, he wants the best, no matter what it costs. If he is sick he does not seek out the newest, cheapest doctor he can find. He wants the most experienced and will pay whatever it costs to get his cancer cured or cut out. Yet he thinks nothing of putting his family on the airline with the lowest paid pilots and mechanics in order to save a few dollars and will come on boards like this to rant about 'overpaid' pilots as if he were some expert in the field. Hard to understand the concept. If tomorrow doctors wages were cut in half along with their benefits while the cost of schooling and training they had to pay to enter the field continued to rise, who in their right mind would enter the field of medicine and would you want them doing your heart surgery? That is what is happening in this industry and you cheer it on. Again, a sad commentary.
Airline managements use the other employees, the press and the public to do there dirty work for them in their quest to up their bonuses at the expense of the employees. They rev up your sense of outrage against pilots and foster a 'we're all the same' mentality for everyone except management And you fall right in line. It starts with the pilots and flows down from there. You help them knock down pilot wages and benefits and then wonder as your own wages and benefits are knocked down in turn to keep them in line with the new paradigm. Good move, congratulations!
It takes just a little more effort to get hired as a pilot at a major airline and the job comes with a little more responsibility. Just because pilots make it look easy does not mean it is easy. In prior days here and at many airlines overseas today, pilots are ranked with senior management as far as where they fit into the corporate structure and rightly so. Here, you are doing your best help AA management to dumb it down to the lowest common denominator out of some weird twist of envy. You want all the captain perqs with none of his responsibility and want to ignore what it takes to get where he is. If you can't have what he has, you want it taken away from him. The captain signs for the plane and makes sure that throughout his career, no matter what, that his landings and takeoffs equal each other in the final tally. In my book that is worth plenty, its sad you don't feel the same, considering you spend so much time riding right behind him.
So the pilots want to get back to where they used to be, wow what a concept. Until that happens, forget the 'raise' stuff, it is just an attempt at restoration. And then they want to keep up with the cost of living, OMG!
You want this industry to keep being dumbed down, good luck. I feel certain they can replace a senior mama with an 18 year old and things would probably be ok, in fact they may even improve. Do the same in the front and I am not so sure. The facts are beginning to speak for themselves, just read up on some of the recent accidents and incidents in the commuters or on some of the foreign low cost carriers that pay crap wages. You don't get as many sharp people entering the career field these days, understandably. A sharp guy isn't going to become a pilot for the career path you advocate. Not when being a plumber, or any of a number of other jobs, pays far more, without the cost of entry and training, the responsibility and the time away from family. Not to mention the medical requirements and the constant evaluations, etc, etc. The guys entering the field will not be the ones you might want up there when things go wrong. Sully and the other experienced pilots are here in spite of the cuts and the decimation of this career because they have too much invested in time and effort to start over at something else, so they stick it out. That keeps the majors' planes mostly out of the weeds for now. The question is, who is going to take Sully's place when the rewards for flying are just not there? When the military guys don't come here and the civilian guys who do are the ones who tossed a coin and then checked pilot instead of flight attendant or ceo on the application, are you still going to be comfortable putting your family on board some stormy night heading to Buffalo with that 300hr wonder up front?
Bottom line is that the management instigated pilot bashing does not help you, them or the folks who will be flying on board in the years ahead. Does help the short term 'managers' who come and go and pump up their resume cutting wages and benefits to be competitive.
As far as the passenger comments here, why are you commenting on something you know even less about than f/a's, if that is even possible? SWA pilots are the highest paid pilots around, why aren't you bitching about that constantly? What would it cost you to restore the lost AA pilots' wages? Probably what, about 5-6$ a ticket. Certainly far less than the tip you hand to the taxi driver who takes you to the airport. It always strikes me as funny that if a guy gets in trouble he does not want the cheapest lawyer, he wants the best, no matter what it costs. If he is sick he does not seek out the newest, cheapest doctor he can find. He wants the most experienced and will pay whatever it costs to get his cancer cured or cut out. Yet he thinks nothing of putting his family on the airline with the lowest paid pilots and mechanics in order to save a few dollars and will come on boards like this to rant about 'overpaid' pilots as if he were some expert in the field. Hard to understand the concept. If tomorrow doctors wages were cut in half along with their benefits while the cost of schooling and training they had to pay to enter the field continued to rise, who in their right mind would enter the field of medicine and would you want them doing your heart surgery? That is what is happening in this industry and you cheer it on. Again, a sad commentary.
PS I have only seen one slide ever blown, and it was done by our Captain. To his credit he took full responsibility
, and stated so in the log book.
The same thing that qualified you to make yours.
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