Scheduling and the FAA

[Fu-ManchuStew]

Just so you all are aware of the facts I was not on the Negotiating Team that promised Pref Bid that was the December 2002 agreement. Perry Hays was the President . 5. Replace primary lines,SAP. secondaary lines with a preferential bidding sustem(algorith) implementation scheduled no later than JUNE 2004. I did participate in the Restructure of July 2002. Karen Lascoli was the President at that time shortly thereafter recalled .

I am not pointing my finger at anyone person. I am more frustated with those that are currently in the position of protecting me from violating an FAR. This has been brought to the attention of the Co. and the Un. countless times! They knew! Pilots cannot violate it. A BH cannot fly more that 6 days without a break free from duty. If you read over this FAR it CLEARLY DEFINES that being on CALL and DUTY are one and the same. There is no gray area. I have asked for an ILG day when months overlap and I am on call 12 days in a row many times. They (the scheduler) talk to me like I am a two year old. Well who is in time out now?

 

[proudf/a]

This is one of those cases where the union can be in a no-win situation. There'll be those members who want the union do so something so they can still drop/pick up trips as they choose while there'll be those on the other side.

If I were "czar" of the union for a day, I'd take the position that this is the company's problem, not the union's. If the company wanted the union's help solving this, my first question would be "How much are you willing to pay?" That "payment" could be dollars in the members paychecks, changes to the reserve system, vacation days/pay, etc.

If the company wants the union's help, there should be a price attached.....

Jim

I understand what you are saying Jim, however I somewhat disagree. This is a union problem too. We have reserves that are unable now pick up time from the ETB that they are eating beans. This new ruling will make it impossible for a reserve to pick up ETB time. This union needs to take care of the membership, and putting a price tag on it and sacraficing its members is like playing riolette with my quality of life. Right about now, I am not so sure I want the union nor the company gambling with it. Neither one has great track records. Now is the time for them to put their heads together to come up with something that will work for all involved.

 

[IMisstheAladdinTrays]

I understand what you are saying Jim, however I somewhat disagree. This is a union problem too. We have reserves that are unable now pick up time from the ETB that they are eating beans. This new ruling will make it impossible for a reserve to pick up ETB time. This union needs to take care of the membership, and putting a price tag on it and sacraficing its members is like playing riolette with my quality of life. Right about now, I am not so sure I want the union nor the company gambling with it. Neither one has great track records. Now is the time for them to put their heads together to come up with something that will work for all involved.

I know less open time...MORE BLOCKS!

 

[jimntx]

I know less open time...MORE BLOCKS!

Oh, please. Must you continue throwing sensible suggestions into these discussions? I think it has been sufficiently demonstrated that logic is not one of the decision-making parameters in the airline business.

 

[PITbull]

One of the main reasons the rsv systems was changed was to make certain f/a's go back to work. We had a lot of f/a's who didn't want to work, so all the ever did was pass for a "2E"(2- day evening dept/all-nighter). All they were doing was passing for the highest percentage of trips that they knew the would never get. So they just took Min. Guarantee each month. Most of these f/a's either had 2nd jobs and only wanted the benefits from US or the wife of one of our pilots, who had a kid and didn't want to work. I used to ask them, " Why don't you just quit?" Simple answer. "Why would I quit, when I can get all this free money". Before the system was changed, I suggested to our LECP in CLT to have a round table meeting, to get possible other options to present to the company as we were about to get screwed. He said that the union didn't want to go to the company with anything. I had suggest taking away passing, which wuld have kept our senoirity, or if you passed, you were docked 5 hours for that day, again, this would have kept our senoirity. The problem seemed to be the "free money" and lack of work from these f/a's. I suggested just getting rid of them, as they would tesify that they didn't want to be here anyway. GTuess what, He's not in office anymore. The RSV's in CLT voted him out. He couldn't get enough BH votes to offset every RSV voting against him. Ask your Reps where the hell Pref. Bid is. Remember, they sold every RSV on this in conjunction with the new LTO system. No late than June 2004. They told us this would create more blocks, allowing more RSV's to obtain that over deserved block. TG, up in Philly was on that neg. committee. Bring it up to her sometime. This pathetic system should have been tied together, however, it it had, the would have been forced to put Pref. Bid in or got back to the old RSV system and our union didn't want Pref. Bid. They just blew that smoke up our ### to get the RSV's to vote yes.

You were not paying attention back then. There were LECs that did dissent from supporting the proposals. The RSVS voted yes all by themselves with no help or prompting to force a yes vote from ANYBODY. In all 3 concessions the f/as just didn't get it.

Now they do.

I left the job after 25 years. Why? Because I knew that to convince a group of employees that they were worth much more than the company was willing to pay them for their services was like talking to the wind. I couldn't even convince the the leadership. Our group didn't trust their own abilities and fear from the company mantra pervaded.

I knew what the job was worth, so I left because I trusted that I could find a job that pays more and provides more security.

Power to the NW f/as who believe in their worth in their company...whether it ceases to exist or not...they know the stakes and will force compromise or liquidate.

 

[Fu-ManchuStew]

This is one of those cases where the union can be in a no-win situation. There'll be those members who want the union do so something so they can still drop/pick up trips as they choose while there'll be those on the other side.

If I were "czar" of the union for a day, I'd take the position that this is the company's problem, not the union's. If the company wanted the union's help solving this, my first question would be "How much are you willing to pay?" That "payment" could be dollars in the members paychecks, changes to the reserve system, vacation days/pay, etc.

If the company wants the union's help, there should be a price attached.....

Jim

Amen! I was wondering myself why the Un. would be involved in correcting a Co. problem? I hope they do not sell us out. Do you think they could possibly be there covering their own tracks? It is kind of a coinincendence they are working on this together. I understand that the FAA is serious about this one.

 

[PITbull]

This is one of those cases where the union can be in a no-win situation. There'll be those members who want the union do so something so they can still drop/pick up trips as they choose while there'll be those on the other side.

If I were "czar" of the union for a day, I'd take the position that this is the company's problem, not the union's. If the company wanted the union's help solving this, my first question would be "How much are you willing to pay?" That "payment" could be dollars in the members paychecks, changes to the reserve system, vacation days/pay, etc.

If the company wants the union's help, there should be a price attached.....

Jim

Like minds think the same...

If I were the Czar for one more day...that's what I would be demanding...

HOW MUCH ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY FOR OUR ASSISTANCE ON THIS ISSUE?

hERE'S OUR LIST FOR STARTERS!

Remember, they sold every RSV on this in conjunction with the new LTO system. No late than June 2004. They told us this would create more blocks, allowing more RSV's to obtain that over deserved block. TG, up in Philly was on that neg. committee. Bring it up to her sometime. This pathetic system should have been tied together, however, it it had, the would have been forced to put Pref. Bid in or got back to the old RSV system and our union didn't want Pref. Bid. They just blew that smoke up our ### to get the RSV's to vote yes.

From your post, looks like YOU forgot that just about every provision in the first 3 contracts got masacred with two BK.

Go back from the 2000 agreement (that was NOT amendable), Summer 2002 agreement-forced, Winter 2002 agreement-forced. And finally in 2004 the entire contract changed yet again with ETB introduction, secondary line augmentation, ERI and VFLR. Those provisions eliminated any pref bid proposals as the company was able to eliminate more f/as with the newer proposals...(that was the idea of pref bid).

 

[Fu-ManchuStew]

Amen! I was wondering myself why the Un. would be involved in correcting a Co. problem? I hope they do not sell us out. Do you think they could possibly be there covering their own tracks? It is kind of a coinincedence they are working on this together. I understand that the FAA is serious about this one.

 

[furloughednow psa]

I was on the furlough list and I received two offers to go to the AW side, which I declined. I thought the entire furlough list received this offer twice, but I could be wrong on that point. All I know for sure is that I received two offers prior to my recall to the East side. After I declined the second offer, the AW side did not have to offer the opportunity to me again.

Details about the AW opportunity for furloughed FAs can be found here http://www.afausairways.org/Restructure/TAfinal.doc

Im sure that you passed because of the August and December recalls which now arent happening. Sucks for furloughs that are waiting around while PHX is hiring fresh faces. I know people will probally say they had there chance. I think some might of considered it more if they knew about Aug and Dec.

 

[PITbull]

I know less open time...MORE BLOCKS!

Less flight attendants needed, creates elimination.

 

[N109UW]

Umm, sorry 109, there is ABSOLUTELY no difference between people passing ALL THE TIME and you passing, when convenient, for a doctors appt! Both cases were still abusing the system! You cannot have it both ways, it is hypocritical. Nice try to justify it, though....

I have been here long enough that I should NOT be on reserve. You were probably a more senior reserve under the old system. SO, basically, you could fly when you wanted to, and then "pass" when you had something more important to do. What about the people at the bottom of the list? You don't mention them! It was an awful system for them! They never flew and received no guarantee, and there was no ETB to supplement back then!! 71 hours was it! As long as you could fly, (albeit when you wanted), and take your trips at your seniority, all was working properly. Pretty one sided in my opinion....

"Reserve passing is not intended to allow FA's additional days off?" But it was ok for you ONLY when you had a Dr's appointment, right? Hypocrite.

Why don't you see if you can go turn some senior people in on your next trip for doing something wrong. Your seniority will shoot right up!

You ask me which scenario, former or latter, I would have taken. Umm, I would have taken Pref BId and a block by now, but I certainly don't blame the Union for selling us out. They were duped on this issue, too. Call Seigel and ask him.

Thanks....

PS: You were wrong. TG, "up in Philly," was not involved with this Pref Bid negotitation. "Just the facts, ma'am!"

You are so narrow minded. It's funny. Again, a huge diffrence to pass once, and still get your 85 hours and passing the whole month not to fly, due to the fact you don't want to work at all. Amazing that you don't see that. Oh well, enough said on that.

I know less open time...MORE BLOCKS!

We can't do that. That would mean less of a bid sheet. What world do you live in, surely not the one us rsv's do. (just Kidding)

 

[Zarah]

Im sure that you passed because of the August and December recalls which now arent happening. Sucks for furloughs that are waiting around while PHX is hiring fresh faces. I know people will probally say they had there chance. I think some might of considered it more if they knew about Aug and Dec.

Uhh, no. I passed because I hate PHX for starters. Settled in NJ and have an 18-month-old baby, not big on commuting, re-training ugggh, husband with a good job in NJ and he has no desire to move are just a few other reasons.

I took my chances with a PHL only recall bid and was recalled June 1 into PHL, which is just across the bridge and 30 minutes from my home.

If I would not have been recalled then I would have just started working full-time at my part-time job.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but we are all adults and understand that a "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".

 

[ACrazy8]

Reserves need to ORGANIZE. Period. I'm not suggesting a sick out or anything WE NEED TO END THIS RSV SYSTEM NOW!!! Am I the only one that's "tired of this sh*t and ready to explode"??? Just how many more YEARS of this crap-are we going to take???

 

[N109UW]

Reserves need to ORGANIZE. Period. I'm not suggesting a sick out or anything WE NEED TO END THIS RSV SYSTEM NOW!!! Am I the only one that's "tired of this sh*t and ready to explode"??? Just how many more YEARS of this crap-are we going to take???

Hell no, your not the only one. Down here in CLT, we are having all the RSV's write up their thoughts on the LTO and ETB system( we ask them to keep it fairly professional and not use cuss words), as we are going to put this together for the company and union. As though they both don't know we don't like it. We are also stressing to all RSV's that if the LTO system is not changed in they next agreement, they should vote NO. Even if I held a block at that time, I would vote NO, due to the fact I wouldn't want anyone behind me to suffer as much as my company and union has let me. No one should endear 17 + years on RSV, let alone on this new system. Additionally, don't let yourselves be sold on things that have achance of not getting implemented. Er on the side of caution.

Also, I need to apologise to TG out there as I thought she was on a committee I mentioned and she was not. My bad.

 

[Travelpro72]

Someone had mentioned about "abusing" this LTO system too. Well let me tell ya, if I know that I am NEVER going to break guarantee why in the hell would I go and fly a trip when I can sit at a damn table doing OPR, have lunch and talk to other crew members passing by? This system forces you to do ETB or go hungry if you don't. This system forces you to NOT take a trip and do OPR since you will get your 73 anyway. Yeah you will miss some perdium but not that much in the big scheme of things. I will do OPR all month and not care. I'm showing up for a position that needs to be filled by the company. I am "on the clock" and working at the airport. I do as much sitting at that OPR table in the crew room as MANY in management and the union obviously (not you Terry) do while "working". So there ya have it folks. There is a time for change and the time is NOW. This system CANNOT wait until the NEW contract is negotiated.