Scheduling and the FAA

[hp_fa]

I would suggest that AFA International bears even greater responsibility to keep up with events and keep their MEC's advised on stuff like this. An arguement can be made that the MEC's and LEC's are focused on smaller details closer to the day-to-day functions of the members. That agruement however fails when it rises to the level of International. This is exactly the kind of stuff those folks should be watching for.

 

[PITbull]

Thanks for the link. I'm sure that this is not the way that AA is operating. As I said before, if I sit reserve 5 days in a row, and get assigned a trip on the 6th day, they consider that 6th day to be the first day "on duty."

AA will have to stop this practice. 24/7 is regulated and enforced by FAA. They will have to comply.

I was still at U April of 2005. You have my word that not only did I not know about the FAA giving their final interpretation, but neither did the entire MEC or our grievance chair.

Heck, there was not even a whisper of this ruling at the AFA BOD meeting held last Oct. 2005 from AFA International; nothing from their legal dept, nothing from any AFA International officer, nothing from any BOD delegate.

How and when AFA International found out aabout the ruling is the real question to ask and who notified them. The next question is how and when did AFA International dissiminate the information.

 

[aredeeyou22]

:down: :down: :down: Love the Sun I wish I knew what you were talking about. You actually think I would hide this information away from reserves......your wrong it was not a threat in the 2000 agreement. As per the information on this web site C.A. and M.F did have conversations with Rob Fuhr. What would be the gain for me Karma sucks . .... Its a good thing that the Sun shines on the wicked----Seneca

Lovey,

Here is post #72. It seems to me that she says HERSELF that she had no idea this was happening. She is no longer in the office, remember? Why don't you email LA and see if she had any idea this was going on? That might be more appropriate. Do you think TG is lying? Maybe so, but I doubt it. I would tend to believe her, since she has been busy working the recall out of office, and really has no reason to lie to us at this point. I think she is more concerned with justice within AFA70, rather than taking over the world with her new found "power", should LA be officially kicked out. Think about it logically. I am convinced that if she wantd to be the LECP during the last elections, she could have, no problem. Any maybe more than ~250 FA's would have bothered to vote.....

Just my .02, which could be worth just .01, I am not sure.......... :blink:

 

[N109UW]

Why cant they go back to old reserve system? That seemed to have worked.(for reserves) OR do whatever they do out west? They all seem to get their time in. Are we just that over staffed?

One of the main reasons the rsv systems was changed was to make certain f/a's go back to work. We had a lot of f/a's who didn't want to work, so all the ever did was pass for a "2E"(2- day evening dept/all-nighter). All they were doing was passing for the highest percentage of trips that they knew the would never get. So they just took Min. Guarantee each month. Most of these f/a's either had 2nd jobs and only wanted the benefits from US or the wife of one of our pilots, who had a kid and didn't want to work. I used to ask them, " Why don't you just quit?" Simple answer. "Why would I quit, when I can get all this free money". Before the system was changed, I suggested to our LECP in CLT to have a round table meeting, to get possible other options to present to the company as we were about to get screwed. He said that the union didn't want to go to the company with anything. I had suggest taking away passing, which wuld have kept our senoirity, or if you passed, you were docked 5 hours for that day, again, this would have kept our senoirity. The problem seemed to be the "free money" and lack of work from these f/a's. I suggested just getting rid of them, as they would tesify that they didn't want to be here anyway. GTuess what, He's not in office anymore. The RSV's in CLT voted him out. He couldn't get enough BH votes to offset every RSV voting against him. Ask your Reps where the hell Pref. Bid is. Remember, they sold every RSV on this in conjunction with the new LTO system. No late than June 2004. They told us this would create more blocks, allowing more RSV's to obtain that over deserved block. TG, up in Philly was on that neg. committee. Bring it up to her sometime. This pathetic system should have been tied together, however, it it had, the would have been forced to put Pref. Bid in or got back to the old RSV system and our union didn't want Pref. Bid. They just blew that smoke up our ### to get the RSV's to vote yes.

 

[aredeeyou22]

One of the main reasons the rsv systems was changed was to make certain f/a's go back to work. We had a lot of f/a's who didn't want to work, so all the ever did was pass for a "2E"(2- day evening dept/all-nighter). All they were doing was passing for the highest percentage of trips that they knew the would never get. So they just took Min. Guarantee each month. Most of these f/a's either had 2nd jobs and only wanted the benefits from US or the wife of one of our pilots, who had a kid and didn't want to work. I used to ask them, " Why don't you just quit?" Simple answer. "Why would I quit, when I can get all this free money". Before the system was changed, I suggested to our LECP in CLT to have a round table meeting, to get possible other options to present to the company as we were about to get screwed. He said that the union didn't want to go to the company with anything. I had suggest taking away passing, which wuld have kept our senoirity, or if you passed, you were docked 5 hours for that day, again, this would have kept our senoirity. The problem seemed to be the "free money" and lack of work from these f/a's. I suggested just getting rid of them, as they would tesify that they didn't want to be here anyway. GTuess what, He's not in office anymore. The RSV's in CLT voted him out. He couldn't get enough BH votes to offset every RSV voting against him. Ask your Reps where the hell Pref. Bid is. Remember, they sold every RSV on this in conjunction with the new LTO system. No late than June 2004. They told us this would create more blocks, allowing more RSV's to obtain that over deserved block. TG, up in Philly was on that neg. committee. Bring it up to her sometime. This pathetic system should have been tied together, however, it it had, the would have been forced to put Pref. Bid in or got back to the old RSV system and our union didn't want Pref. Bid. They just blew that smoke up our ### to get the RSV's to vote yes.

109,

First off, why would you want to advocate the Union and Company "getting rid" of the FA's that were just passing? How were you suggesting that the company "get rid of them?" Fire them for passing? Sacrifice one to promote your needs? Sounds like a well thought out plan.... Newsflash, PASSING was allowed at the time, and if they wanted to pass, who are you to say to the company and union that they should be "gotten rid of?" You never passed when you needed to ? I call Bu!!sh*t on that one....Sure, the company hated it, but that was the way it was, and that was certainly not the RSV FA's fault. They could afford to not fly? Great for them!! Good or bad in your eyes, the system allowed it.

One more time, 109, the Negotiating Committee sold the RSVs and everyone else on the Pref Bidding program with the understanding that IT WOULD BE IMPLEMENTED! Do you think the AFA negotiators were saying,"oh , this will be great, we will tell the stupid reserves that Pref Bidding will create more blocks, and then it will never happen! We will have their vote! Woohoo! Priceless! Suckers!" No, sorry, they thought it would be implemented. TG, as you mention, "up in Philly," knew about this, as she was on the Neg. Committee, so what! She, along with everyone else involved, thought it would be implemented. Can you prove otherwise?

Bottom line, Pref Bid is not going to happen. Right or wrong, corrupt or not, it's dead. We've known this for awhile. Why don't you focus your attention on making sure we receive MARKED inprovements in the new, combined contract? E-mail everyone you can. Management, Union officials etc. Make them realize that cost neutral ain't gonna cut it. We as RSVs have been trampled on since I was hired. It's truly pathetic, I agree with you. Get your flying partners down there in CLT angrier as well. Hold a "round table" meeting if you have to, but don't attempt to sacrifice the FA's that were working the system to their advantage... let's pull together, both East and West, and let MGMT and AFA know that we are done being punk'd.

Whew, that wore me out.... (Oh yah, I REEEEALY miss the 2E passing trick.. 😛 )

 

[Travelpro72]

Hey passing was allowed and we ALL did it. I truly do miss that 2E when you needed it. I'll tell ya though, I sure don't miss that 5am call. "What do you want to do today"? I ALWAYS wanted to say, "Nothing, go to the pool later". We all know this LTO system blows and we are not going to get the old system back. So what could we come up with? Hmmmm a new thread maybe.

 

[N109UW]

109,

First off, why would you want to advocate the Union and Company "getting rid" of the FA's that were just passing? How were you suggesting that the company "get rid of them?" Fire them for passing? Sacrifice one to promote your needs? Sounds like a well thought out plan.... Newsflash, PASSING was allowed at the time, and if they wanted to pass, who are you to say to the company and union that they should be "gotten rid of?" You never passed when you needed to ? I call Bu!!sh*t on that one....Sure, the company hated it, but that was the way it was, and that was certainly not the RSV FA's fault. They could afford to not fly? Great for them!! Good or bad in your eyes, the system allowed it.


Whew, that wore me out.... (Oh yah, I REEEEALY miss the 2E passing trick.. 😛 )

Let's get something straight here. I'm not sure how long you have been here. This had nothing to do with any of my needs. Yes, I passed once in awhile, which is fine. The point you are not getting is that there is a huge difference in passing to get to a doctors appt. and passing the whole month due to the fact you don't want to work. I miss the occasional pass also, but I don't miss all the abusers. These were people at my seniority. As soon as the system was changed and these folks had to go back to work, most took the buyout, leaving you and me with this system. I was for giving them a choice. Work or leave. We are all grown ups here(at least most of us). When you own your own company, you can pay lots of people to not work. If it came down to a choice of losing passing but keeping your seniority, or losing senoirity and this great system we have now, which would you have taken? Right, the first one. Also, remember that 13% paycut we took, that cut pretty much supplemented these folks pay. And if you don't remember, the contract stated"reserve passing is not intended to allow f/a's additional days off". The reality was that they were not very cost effective.
Whew, that wore me out also. I REEEEALY miss my rsv senoirity and a full paycheck.

 

[Coffee_Tea_Or_Me]

One of the main reasons the rsv systems was changed was to make certain f/a's go back to work. We had a lot of f/a's who didn't want to work, so all the ever did was pass for a "2E"(2- day evening dept/all-nighter). All they were doing was passing for the highest percentage of trips that they knew the would never get. So they just took Min. Guarantee each month. Most of these f/a's either had 2nd jobs and only wanted the benefits from US or the wife of one of our pilots, who had a kid and didn't want to work. I used to ask them, " Why don't you just quit?" Simple answer. "Why would I quit, when I can get all this free money". Before the system was changed, I suggested to our LECP in CLT to have a round table meeting, to get possible other options to present to the company as we were about to get screwed. He said that the union didn't want to go to the company with anything. I had suggest taking away passing, which wuld have kept our senoirity, or if you passed, you were docked 5 hours for that day, again, this would have kept our senoirity. The problem seemed to be the "free money" and lack of work from these f/a's. I suggested just getting rid of them, as they would tesify that they didn't want to be here anyway. GTuess what, He's not in office anymore. The RSV's in CLT voted him out. He couldn't get enough BH votes to offset every RSV voting against him. Ask your Reps where the hell Pref. Bid is. Remember, they sold every RSV on this in conjunction with the new LTO system. No late than June 2004. They told us this would create more blocks, allowing more RSV's to obtain that over deserved block. TG, up in Philly was on that neg. committee. Bring it up to her sometime. This pathetic system should have been tied together, however, it it had, the would have been forced to put Pref. Bid in or got back to the old RSV system and our union didn't want Pref. Bid. They just blew that smoke up our ### to get the RSV's to vote yes.

Some Senior RSV's still "abuse" this system, By only doing OPR. This system can still be "worked" If your senior enough to start the month off with OPR.

 

[Zarah]

Some Senior RSV's still "abuse" this system, By only doing OPR. This system can still be "worked" If your senior enough to start the month off with OPR.

I never get any trips when I work OPR =( it is a waste of my time.

 

[IMisstheAladdinTrays]

I never get any trips when I work OPR =( it is a waste of my time.

Uhh huh...thats why some people take it everyday!

 

[Fu-ManchuStew]

Hey - I think everyone has gotton off the subject of this thread. The bottom line is the Company and the Union have been violating an FAR at the expense of the RESERVES! What if we decided what FAR we wanted to follow each time we went to work? We would be fined or fired! Think about it, say you were on call for 4 days and then worked an ETB trip on the next 3 days that you were off. That being 7 days in a row. You accidentily blew a chute or had an incident that needed to be investigated by the FAA. The FAA discovered that you violated FAR 121.467 because you did not have a day of rest on the 6th day. Do you think anyone would have your back in the CO. or the Un. then? I bet not. We are responsible for knowing our FAR's and I read over this one and I am very disturbed that our union has allowed the Co. to interpret it differently! I will miss the ETB like it was. I liked the extra money. Truth be told though, none of us really wanted that trip when we were on call we prefered that ETB trip on our days OF/IN. Who wants to work on their days off? I don't. None of us should have to! We should be able to work on our days on DUTY and not have to sacrifice our personal lives to pay our bills! I blame the Un. and the Co. for creating this turmoil. When I am on call I am a prisoner of CATCREW and when I am OFF I am a prisoner of the ETB. The RESERVES are always sacrificed and I am tired of the false and misleading representation I have had since I was hired in the late 80's. The Reserves have been here long enough and have put up with enough bulls#*t over the years that we will survive this one too. Who can we Trust????? :blink:

 

[Fu-ManchuStew]

Has anyone heard what the union is actually doing in Tempe? I hope that our Rep. are once again not trying to negotiate and sacrifice the Reserves lives and our contract away. The sideletters have never been in the Reserves best interest. We are the last ones protected. I do not trust this UNION. :unsure:

 

[BajaBabe]

Just so you all are aware of the facts I was not on the Negotiating Team that promised Pref Bid that was the December 2002 agreement. Perry Hays was the President . 5. Replace primary lines,SAP. secondaary lines with a preferential bidding sustem(algorith) implementation scheduled no later than JUNE 2004. I did participate in the Restructure of July 2002. Karen Lascoli was the President at that time shortly thereafter recalled .

 

[BoeingBoy]

Has anyone heard what the union is actually doing in Tempe?

This is one of those cases where the union can be in a no-win situation. There'll be those members who want the union do so something so they can still drop/pick up trips as they choose while there'll be those on the other side.

If I were "czar" of the union for a day, I'd take the position that this is the company's problem, not the union's. If the company wanted the union's help solving this, my first question would be "How much are you willing to pay?" That "payment" could be dollars in the members paychecks, changes to the reserve system, vacation days/pay, etc.

If the company wants the union's help, there should be a price attached.....

Jim

 

[aredeeyou22]

Let's get something straight here. I'm not sure how long you have been here. This had nothing to do with any of my needs. Yes, I passed once in awhile, which is fine. The point you are not getting is that there is a huge difference in passing to get to a doctors appt. and passing the whole month due to the fact you don't want to work. I miss the occasional pass also, but I don't miss all the abusers. These were people at my seniority. As soon as the system was changed and these folks had to go back to work, most took the buyout, leaving you and me with this system. I was for giving them a choice. Work or leave. We are all grown ups here(at least most of us). When you own your own company, you can pay lots of people to not work. If it came down to a choice of losing passing but keeping your seniority, or losing senoirity and this great system we have now, which would you have taken? Right, the first one. Also, remember that 13% paycut we took, that cut pretty much supplemented these folks pay. And if you don't remember, the contract stated"reserve passing is not intended to allow f/a's additional days off". The reality was that they were not very cost effective.
Whew, that wore me out also. I REEEEALY miss my rsv senoirity and a full paycheck.

Umm, sorry 109, there is ABSOLUTELY no difference between people passing ALL THE TIME and you passing, when convenient, for a doctors appt! Both cases were still abusing the system! You cannot have it both ways, it is hypocritical. Nice try to justify it, though....

I have been here long enough that I should NOT be on reserve. You were probably a more senior reserve under the old system. SO, basically, you could fly when you wanted to, and then "pass" when you had something more important to do. What about the people at the bottom of the list? You don't mention them! It was an awful system for them! They never flew and received no guarantee, and there was no ETB to supplement back then!! 71 hours was it! As long as you could fly, (albeit when you wanted), and take your trips at your seniority, all was working properly. Pretty one sided in my opinion....

"Reserve passing is not intended to allow FA's additional days off?" But it was ok for you ONLY when you had a Dr's appointment, right? Hypocrite.

Why don't you see if you can go turn some senior people in on your next trip for doing something wrong. Your seniority will shoot right up! 🙄

You ask me which scenario, former or latter, I would have taken. Umm, I would have taken Pref BId and a block by now, but I certainly don't blame the Union for selling us out. They were duped on this issue, too. Call Seigel and ask him.

Thanks....

PS: You were wrong. TG, "up in Philly," was not involved with this Pref Bid negotitation. "Just the facts, ma'am!"