Rumor has it DL PHL-LHR

[WorldTraveler]

I have NEVER said that the A321T product isn't a great product.

I HAVE questioned whether the economics work for that kind of product.

There is no doubt that AA's 321T product is superior to any carrier's total TATL product... but AA isn't offering the 321T product on longhaul int'l flights. and even if you want to say that the 77W product is pretty close, which is probably true, you also have to factor in the falling demand for FC seats - and thus again whether the economics work.

I have never said that AA doesn't have a good product where it has refurbished or bought new aircraft.

as for DTW, I can tell you that DTW as an airport has managed to grow and increase int'l service despite the downturn in the city of Detroit.

I don't know where you live, but Detroit is typical of a lot of northern cities and atypical of the south.

The city of Detroit is a smaller part of the total Detroit region compared than cities in the south are.

DL has consistently kept DTW's capacity and revenues in line with its other hubs. Further, while the real estate market in DTW has collapsed, how many of the people who are affected were airline customers to begin with? how many companies have totally left Michigan and how many new jobs have been created elsewhere to balance out cuts in the city of Detroit?

and as a reminder, DTW is not owned or operated by the City of Detroit.

DTW as an airport is a lot less affected by the problems with the city of Detroit as you and others think.

 

[topDawg]

 
I was talking about the on-board product on the JFK transcons AA offers on the A321 (which I believe WT was trashing).
 
 
So why don't you tell us how great the economy of the entire region is?  That will answer your question why UA and AA aren't eager to fly international out of DTW.

ah okay. 
 
well product for product its the same on both aircraft. AA does have F however, which I believe is the same seat they use on the 77W fleet. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

AA is throwing in an additional frequency into the market.

guess those slots weren't that tight after all.

not sure where it is coming from but shows exactly why the EU expressed concern about anti-competitive behavior.

they were right.

 

[commavia]

Adding additional frequency in a hub-hub market is anti-competitive?  How delusional.
 
Back in reality, AA has chosen to respond to Delta's additional capacity very smartly - by even further enhancing the joint AA/BA schedule in the market and making it even more comprehensive - with an eastbound daylight departure - against Delta's single daily 757.

 

[WorldTraveler]

if it had been on any other route, it would have been expected.

AA/BA was forced to divest a slot so what do they do but add more capacity.

can you tell us where the slot came from?

it is precisely why the EU did what they did.

 

[commavia]

And the source of this slot pair matters ... why?  Bottom line is that Delta is taking a slot pair from AA/BA because they can, to add a flight in a market where they will be at a substantial disadvantage, and AA/BA are responding - smartly - by adding capacity and further enhancing their schedule offering to ensure their continued dominance in the market.  AA/BA aren't doing anything bad, or wrong, or objectionable at all - they're just responding normally, just as Delta has numerous times before by dumping capacity into markets when new entrants arrive, etc.  It's the way of the world.
 
But of course, the fact that this only puts Delta at even more of a competitive disadvantage explains the (typical) moral outrage - if Delta/Air France/KLM were adding flights into a competitive market in response to a competitor, the story would of course be totally different.

 

[jcw]

commavia - spot on

 

[eolesen]

Seems to me DL is leveraging the VS JV at every turn, so why would it be a surprise for the AA/BA JV to similarly leverage their slots to add a frequency of interest to both parties....

 

[topDawg]

Seems to me DL is leveraging the VS JV at every turn, so why would it be a surprise for the AA/BA JV to similarly leverage their slots to add a frequency of interest to both parties....

cause only Delta is aloud to do that.... 

 

[jcw]

Seems to me DL is leveraging the VS JV at every turn, so why would it be a surprise for the AA/BA JV to similarly leverage their slots to add a frequency of interest to both parties....

 
Only DL can use a JV to it's advantage
 
Let's see if WT can congratulate AA on leveraging it's superior JV at LHR

 

[WorldTraveler]

And the source of this slot pair matters ... why? Bottom line is that Delta is taking a slot pair from AA/BA because they can, to add a flight in a market where they will be at a substantial disadvantage, and AA/BA are responding - smartly - by adding capacity and further enhancing their schedule offering to ensure their continued dominance in the market. AA/BA aren't doing anything bad, or wrong, or objectionable at all - they're just responding normally, just as Delta has numerous times before by dumping capacity into markets when new entrants arrive, etc. It's the way of the world.

But of course, the fact that this only puts Delta at even more of a competitive disadvantage explains the (typical) moral outrage - if Delta/Air France/KLM were adding flights into a competitive market in response to a competitor, the story would of course be totally different.

the slot pair is DL's SOLELY because BA and US - who was not previously part of the AA/BA JV - are the only carriers in the market and the EU was not going to allow the addition of US without a slot divestiture.

DL isn't taking anything that AA/BA wasn't forced to give up.

Seems to me DL is leveraging the VS JV at every turn, so why would it be a surprise for the AA/BA JV to similarly leverage their slots to add a frequency of interest to both parties....

and the issue is that AA/BA was ordered to give up a slot... the addition of another flight on top of the competition that the EU ordered be allowed to serve the market with AA/BA assets is precisely why it is anti-competitive.

I'm not sure it matters because Dl undoubtedly expected AA/BA would do it anyway.

and, since AF/DL/KL/AZ agreed to give up slots in Europe and at JFK, will AA be taking advantage of that opportunity?

of course DL is going to take advantage of the opportunity. will AA?

 

[jcw]

translation:
 
Can't bring myself to congratulate AA - so I will change the subject to see if AA will have to take advantage of other slots
 
Let's see - AA/BA had to give us a slot pair - almost a year ago - so it took DL a year to make this decision - however since the AF slot pairs give away was just decided a couple of months ago and so what I'm staying is - I'm OK with DL taking a year to make a move - however AA must make moves in weeks - see I have a double standard

 

[WorldTraveler]

why would I congratulate AA for adding another route?

I understand why they are doing what they are doing.... they did the same thing with LAX-LHR.

congratulations will come when they demonstrate that the added capacity makes sense - and the biggest award will come if DL chooses to walk away - but I doubt if they will.

 

[commavia]

Yeah I guess we'll see.  Delta walked away from double-daily 767s BOS-LHR and a single 767 MIA-LHR, and I think it is beyond debate that both of those markets were far more Delta-friendly (in terms of O&D volume, local market size, and local Delta market presence) than PHL-LHR.
 
In any event, it really doesn't change the overall dynamics.  AA/BA still handily dominate PHL-LHR, and indeed are still by far the largest force between the U.S. and LHR, and Delta/Delta UK (Virgin Atlantic) nibbling around the edges with a daily 757 in this market isn't exactly earth-shattering.
 
And meanwhile, AA is generating immense profits and mountains of cash.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL still serves LHR-BOS on its own metal. AA doesn't. DL has double daily service via its JV. DL also has a JV for MIA-LHR which will also see increased capacity.

no one has doubted that AA/BA dominates the US-UK market. that is why they have been forced to give up slots multiple times and DL is the only US carrier that has retained any. The US slot for CLT essentially was divested again for PHL.

It is certainly lost on you that AA flies 757s in markets that DL serves with much larger aircraft.

think hard and give us that list.

meanwhile, is it at all possible that AA is starting its additional flight on a SUBPAR 757?

is this the hypocrisy of all hypocrisies?

calling DL's addition of a 757 subpar only to see AA do the same thing.

this is REALLY FUNNY.

I can't help but laugh. too bad hypocrisy is such a deadly disease.