Respect Or Insult

[Decision 2004]

I used to respect what you wrote but you are starting to sound more and more like Art Bell. h34r:

Yep 100% TWU alright.

The TWU motto:
If you disagree with me, then you are my enemy.
You are not entitled to your opinion.
You will be called names for exposing the truth.
We must hide behind the bus and blame others for our own failures.

Funny thing mojo, you are losing respect for everyone except those that agree with you. Are you gaining any friends as you knock us off one by one? If not. you will be very lonely soon.

 

[mojo13]

 

[Ray]

>>>3. The membership can recall any officer for any reason any time.

Holy smokes! Have you even read your own Constitution? Articles VII and XIV, to be exact. I have, and this is an outright myth. The other items on your list are silly too, but this takes the cake.

Toolbox Tammy

Tammy,
I put the beginning of both articles here so you don't have to actually have to do anything to read what those two articles say.

As far as the rest of my list being silly, well I am sorry that basic freedom scares you so. No go back to the tool crib that you came from, keep telling yourself that everything will be alright. When the AMFA cry babies win the election you can take comfort in the fact that you can still go to Pine Street and pay your tokens to the worlds greatest change collector, Sonny Hall.

 

[j7915]

Tammy,
I put the beginning of both articles here so you don't have to actually have to do anything to read what those two articles say.

As far as the rest of my list being silly, well I am sorry that basic freedom scares you so. No go back to the tool crib that you came from, keep telling yourself that everything will be alright. When the AMFA cry babies win the election you can take comfort in the fact that you can still go to Pine Street and pay your tokens to the worlds greatest change collector, Sonny Hall.

AMFA has tried for 40 years to get 50% plus cards at AA. And you boast about it only takes 25% of the members to file a recall petition? The latest election returns AMFA has posted seem to be running at less than 50% ballots being returned. The only AMFA officials not recall protected are those that cross Delle or Kevin Mc.

Anything that will get 25% participation will have to be an action so outrageous that it probably will bring the courts, NMB, into the picture anyway, so why bother with a recall petition.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

j7915, per the thread topic, do you feel insulted or respected with the AIP check?

 

[James T. Kirk]

Tammy,
I put the beginning of both articles here so you don't have to actually have to do anything to read what those two articles say.

As far as the rest of my list being silly, well I am sorry that basic freedom scares you so. No go back to the tool crib that you came from, keep telling yourself that everything will be alright. When the AMFA cry babies win the election you can take comfort in the fact that you can still go to Pine Street and pay your tokens to the worlds greatest change collector, Sonny Hall.

Give me one name that they have removed from office, you cant because it will not work. They always find a loop hole to abrogate their on constitution.

 

[Rusty]

AMFA has tried for 40 years to get 50% plus cards at AA. And you boast about it only takes 25% of the members to file a recall petition? The latest election returns AMFA has posted seem to be running at less than 50% ballots being returned. The only AMFA officials not recall protected are those that cross Delle or Kevin Mc.

Anything that will get 25% participation will have to be an action so outrageous that it probably will bring the courts, NMB, into the picture anyway, so why bother with a recall petition.

j7915, in part of your paragraph you believe it would be difficult to remove an officer by 25% recall vote, then in the same paragraph you say that only those that cross Delle and Kevin Mc would be easy to recall.

This sounds like typical management rhetoric to me. You have never stated what your job position is, that I have seen. Exactly what is your job description???

The courts have ruled that the twu international has supreme authority over our contract and we have no say what so ever. Do you think this is a better approach than membership rule and to have a direct say in the happenings/operations of our union? If so, is it because management knows that true union strength comes from the membership and not through industrial union dictators like Sonny Hall?

 

[Rusty]

Give me one name that they have removed from office, you cant because it will not work. They always find a loop hole to abrogate their on constitution.

Show me one man that has committed a despicable act or that has committed something to raise an interest in recall. You cannot because under AMFA officers are accountable to the membership and know what would happen, not to mention that they have a much higher standard of ethics.

Under the twu you will find unaccountability everywhere you turn. Recently a man was beat by a couple of officers. My understanding is these officers were suspended for 10 weeks from officers duty, yet the membership has no say as to their recall even here at the local level. Of course this is only the most recent of many atrocities that the membership has had no say in!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

AMFA has tried for 40 years to get 50% plus cards at AA. And you boast about it only takes 25% of the members to file a recall petition? The latest election returns AMFA has posted seem to be running at less than 50% ballots being returned. The only AMFA officials not recall protected are those that cross Delle or Kevin Mc.

Anything that will get 25% participation will have to be an action so outrageous that it probably will bring the courts, NMB, into the picture anyway, so why bother with a recall petition.

And what percentage of Tulsa voted in your last round of officer elections?

Would it be safe to say less than 50%?

If we had recall I have no doubt that there would be a drive to get rid of Little, in fact there is, the AMFA drive!

 

[Rusty]

If we had recall I have no doubt that there would be a drive to get rid of Little, in fact there is, the AMFA drive!

Good point Bob, we are in effect practicing our AMFA constitutional right of recall on the twu, and we do have a lot more than 25% backing it up. Proof that 25% is easily obtainable when atrocities occur!!!

 

[Ray]

Give me one name that they have removed from office, you cant because it will not work. They always find a loop hole to abrogate their on constitution.

John Liotine I am not 100% sure I got his name spelled right.

 

[Ray]

Anything that will get 25% participation will have to be an action so outrageous that it probably will bring the courts, NMB, into the picture anyway, so why bother with a recall petition.

It has already happened, it can work, and it has. So please tell me if there are any twu officals that might be removed if this was the twu constituion. I can think of one that would be gone in a New York minute.
"WITHOUT FURTHER RATIFACATION"
You don't think the line boys might have a bone to pick?

 

[James T. Kirk]

j7915, in part of your paragraph you believe it would be difficult to remove an officer by 25% recall vote, then in the same paragraph you say that only those that cross Delle and Kevin Mc would be easy to recall.

This sounds like typical management rhetoric to me. You have never stated what your job position is, that I have seen. Exactly what is your job description???

The courts have ruled that the twu international has supreme authority over our contract and we have no say what so ever. Do you think this is a better approach than membership rule and to have a direct say in the happenings/operations of our union? If so, is it because management knows that true union strength comes from the membership and not through industrial union dictators like Sonny Hall?

In a bulletin to UAL Technicians, dated April 13, National AMFA Director, O.V. Delle-Femine had this to say;

“In AMF A the officers work for the members. If the members are dissatisfied with any National or Local Officer, they have a recall process guaranteed in the Constitution. This provides the necessary checks and balances that guarantee the members final and lasting authority.â€￾

Lets look at how these checks and balances work when they are put into practice by the National Director.
When AMFA Airline Representative, Vic Remininski signed a “SECRETâ€￾ letter of agreement infringing on their seniority and overtime rights, WITHOUT A VOTE OF THE MEMBERS. The membership got up a recall petition with 430 signatures, roughly 30% of the 1460 active members of Local 19.

AMFA Constitution, Article XIV, Section 2. provides recall procedures for Local Officers. You must have 25% of the members sign a petition. (In the IAM any one (1) member has the right to bring charges against any representative or member.)

The Local 19 President demanded that charges be attached to the petition, so charges were attached, even though AMFA Constitution, Article XIV, Section 2 does not require charges for a recall.

By demanding attached charges changed the Recall Trial was changed into a Membership Trial. AMFA Constitution, Article XIV, Section 4, provides for a membership trial whenever charges are preferred against a member.

On August 6 the Local 19 President procured an opinion from the National's legal service which stated that t the Local 19 By-Laws are in conflict with the AMFA Constitution and consequently void. Using this decision, without membership approval, the President usurped the rights of the members.

The Local 19 President selected and appointed a five member Trial Committee. The local bylaws, article IX section 3 called for a election of the trial committee. But, Lee Seham ruled them to be in violation of the Constitution.

On August 27 the Local 19 President procured from the National's legal service the opinion that the members were not entitled to vote on the recall if the trial committee found the Airline Representative not guilty.

At the Sept. 18 business meeting, the Treasurer's report disclosed that $1,500.00 had been paid to Lee Seham in defense of the Airline Representative being recalled.
A trial date of October 19 was set.

On October 17 the National Secretary issued a statement that the National Executive Committee agreed with the opinions of Lee Seham.

At the trial there was National intervention, on behalf of the Airline Representative, in the form of letters from the National Director and the NEC, and testimony from the Airline Representatives of Locals 2 and 5.
During the trial the Local 19 Airline Representative testified that the National Director supported his arguments, also that Lee Seham had rendered findings in his favor." Throughout the trial the Local 19 Airline Representative repeatedly contradicted him self, entering testimony that he had already testified against. The Trial Committee found the Airline Representative "Not Guilty on all charges."

AMFA Constitution, Article XIV, Section 10, says “After the report has been delivered as to guilt or innocence of the defendant the verdict shall be submitted without debate to a vote by secret ballot of the members in attendance.â€￾
However, because of the ruling by Lee Seham and the NEC NO VOTE was ever called and Vic was allowed to resume his duties. During the three month he continued to receive 125% of the wages of a technician, for doing nothing.
This is how, through adroit manipulation, "the administration" takes control of the union away from the members. This is how the right of recall was abolished. This is how the members' right to vote was abolished. In other representation election, they voted for the AMFA Constitution, NOT the then non-existent AMFA administration.

 

[j7915]

j7915, in part of your paragraph you believe it would be difficult to remove an officer by 25% recall vote, then in the same paragraph you say that only those that cross Delle and Kevin Mc would be easy to recall.

This sounds like typical management rhetoric to me. You have never stated what your job position is, that I have seen. Exactly what is your job description???

The courts have ruled that the twu international has supreme authority over our contract and we have no say what so ever. Do you think this is a better approach than membership rule and to have a direct say in the happenings/operations of our union? If so, is it because management knows that true union strength comes from the membership and not through industrial union dictators like Sonny Hall?

Welcome aboard Rusty. I have been commenting on the 'net on AMFA topics since around 1999; always with this handle, and the email address of @yahoo.com. Dig up TM's, Plane business, AMFANUTS archives, and some comments on Yahoo in the AA forum.

I have never made any secret of the fact that I am in QA, in TULE.

So please name any AMFA official that has been removed from office, after 25% of the members signed a petition. At present as I have said AMFA has tried for 40 years to get 50% plus one signatures at AA. You really believe that they can get 25% of any local to sign a petition, when the last vote at local 33 had a return rate of about 33%??

what happened to the fellow at Alaskan? I'll stand corrected if there was in fact a recall petition.

 

[j7915]

j7915, per the thread topic, do you feel insulted or respected with the AIP check?

Ken, I was taught to respect the PENNY. I still bend over and pick them up; I might hurt my back doing it someday.

When someone gives me money, and I don't have to do anything for it, I printed the deposit statement on company time, company paper, company PC, why should I feel insulted?

My question to the boss is: what have you done for me TODAY???