Release Us!

[Duke787]

Isn't that what Bob wants? Then his gang of backers who knew what they were asking for can claim he is the martyr, the big bad Int'l are just what he always said they were, and he can continue to play his political game. Bob definitely has a job waiting for him at Fox News.

Spin, spin, oh you crafty spin doctors!

In reality what appears to be happening is Bob and his supporters are realizing that what they promised may not be possible. The realization that a variety of factors beyond Bob's fact twisting can't overcome and he is up against people that far out class him. Meanwhile, the AMP people (formerly the AMFA people) are using the memberships' disappointment with the pace of negotiations to move forward their agenda of bringing in an untested union that uses a failed ideology.

In the end the really winner...AA. They are getting de facto pay cuts and might even reap a greater windfall of control over labor with the possibility of a new unfunded union or better yet, an ill advised request for release exposing all of us at AA to have a worse contract imposed on us.

Meanwhile Bob and all his supporters will say it wasn't Bob's fault, it was the big bad Int'l. If the Int'l steps in Bob gets to say, "I told you they were running the show from behind the curtain." Bob, JR, Pike, and other so-called leaders who keep blaming the Int'l, mediator, and AA for stalling should really look at themselves. The members need some relief now. Getting it all in one sitting, yeah that'll happen. Of course, Bob has said we can get full retro back to the amendable date so don't worry, in 2015 we will all get a big fat retro check!

You couldn't be more correct, it sure is a lot easier to SAY something like "full retro for everybody" "we'll get everything back plus 10%" then it is to deliver on such great promise's.

Hopefully cooler heads will work something out for us.

 

[Duke787]

I think a basic understanding of the written word would leave one to the obvious conclusion that it is opinion. I for one don't mind the opinion. Without it we would only get the information that his Phatness and the other pariahs would spoon feed us.

The thing is you and I have opinions that we write on this forum under an alias. Bob a president and negotiator for the TWU writes under his own name. His "opinions" carry more weight then ours. When Bob starts rattling off numbers, stats, and different scenarios, is that fact or opinion. Regardless if it is fact or opinion, what he writes should be 100% accurate and I believe should be what the whole negotiation committee stands by. I think he does a disservice to the negotiation committee and the union, when he bad mouths the other negotiators and international officers.

To me it seems like Bob is making excuses now, so when we don't get everything he talked up to his membership he won't be blamed, but that is my "opinion"

 

[Bob Owens]

You couldn't be more correct, it sure is a lot easier to SAY something like "full retro for everybody" "we'll get everything back plus 10%" then it is to deliver on such great promise's.

Hopefully cooler heads will work something out for us.

Of course it is but then again you dont seem to be able to distinguish from a Table Position and a promise.

And its a lot easier for people who arent affected by the outcome to say " Lets be professional and go in there with a "credible" offer that we wont budge on" when members ask why we went in so low, then turn around six months later and push accepting much, much less.

The motto appears to be "Dont ask for anything and you wont be dissappointed". (Thanks JF for the line)

When I came into this back in 2009 and I heard the stratagy I was shocked, did any of these guys who bought into this ever sell a car? I never heard of such a dumb idea as going to the table with your bottom line which would not even come close to an inflation adjusted "Restore", let alone "More". We were screwed from day 1. Pattern bargaining is alive and well and our strategy lowered the bar, Cal pretty much settled for what we asked for and the UAL TA that was rejected was around the same. All I can say is whoever thought up that strategy made the Financial Institutions, Banks, lessors, airports vendors and oil companies very happy, more money for them! Airline revenues have soared since 2002, more than making up for the price of fuel and labor costs as a share of expense continues to plummett. At AA revenues are up nearly $5 billion.

 

[enough already]

I believe the last T/A was shot down at around 68%? Most of those at OH.

Has the votes per station ever been made available to the members? Could somebody please post it?

 

[Bob Owens]

The thing is you and I have opinions that we write on this forum under an alias. Bob a president and negotiator for the TWU writes under his own name. His "opinions" carry more weight then ours. When Bob starts rattling off numbers, stats, and different scenarios, is that fact or opinion. Regardless if it is fact or opinion, what he writes should be 100% accurate and I believe should be what the whole negotiation committee stands by. I think he does a disservice to the negotiation committee and the union, when he bad mouths the other negotiators and international officers.

I've expressed my opinion on these boards since the 90s, before this blog existed. I've used my name all along. You say that I should only express opinions on what the whole committee agrees on, so minority opinions should not be expressed to the members? Or I should assume an alias to do so? Look we are all independant Locals, if you want what you are talking about I suggest you push for a singular Local. I should change because someone under an alias from another Local says so? I've recieved hundreds of E-mails and been told to my face to keep doing what I've been doing and many of those comments are from outside my Local.

To me it seems like Bob is making excuses now, so when we don't get everything he talked up to his membership he won't be blamed, but that is my "opinion"

Not at all. I've said since day one that we will have to go all the way to get what we want and the only way to get anything close to what we need is to at the very least take it to the eleventh hour of the 29th day. The only way we can get there is by getting released, otherwise we can not have collective bargaining, we have collective begging. I had my suspicions when all of a sudden it was decided to shrink the committee to the four guys who pushed for a NO vote, then the two new guys from Tulsa were thrown into the mix because IMO they beat the regime that advocated accepting the deal. Many people came to me and said it looked like a "set up for failure". I shared their concern, although I really couldnt do anything about it other than try and move things forward, that the plan was to send us back and forth for a year, drag things out, then citing the lack of progress call the full committee back in, with speeches from Don and his minions about how we failed and need to just tweek this so it "puts a little cash in our members pockets" and let the members vote on it again with the inevitable "we will get em next time". That we would end up with a few very minor improvements and a new TA would be out in August, a year to the day the members rejected the TA. All without taking it to a release because really pushing for a release would make things uncomfortable for some people. I think it was hoped that another year of wasted time would wear down the table committee, deplete our locals finances and fustrate our members to the point that they would turn on us for recommending a NO vote. We complied with what the committe directed and we were told "You own it". Well without a release we dont have the tools to succeed. Lets face it, why werent we released back in August of last year? The pilots were released after they turned down their TA in 1997, I guess the difference is they asked to be. Sure it ended in a PEB but our pilots remained at the top of the ipassenger airline industry.

 

[Buck]

I think he does a disservice to the negotiation committee and the union, when he bad mouths the other negotiators and international officers.

I think that it is a disservice to the membership when the International keeps them out of the loop.

 

[Overspeed]

I think that it is a disservice to the membership when the International keeps them out of the loop.

Are they kept out of the loop? I have contacted other members at other Locals to get information or letters that were provided to the Presidents that they did not distribute. Maybe the Presidents shouldn't filter info and call it propaganda. We are smart enough to figure out what's BS. We don't need them protecting us.

 

[Overspeed]

I think that it is a disservice to the membership when the International keeps them out of the loop.

Are they kept out of the loop? I have contacted other members at other Locals to get information or letters that were provided to the Presidents that they did not distribute. Maybe the Presidents shouldn't filter info and call it propaganda. We are smart enough to figure out what's BS. We don't need them protecting us.

 

[Overspeed]

I think that it is a disservice to the membership when the International keeps them out of the loop.

Are they kept out of the loop? I have contacted other members at other Locals to get information or letters that were provided to the Presidents that they did not distribute. Maybe the Presidents shouldn't filter info and call it propaganda. We are smart enough to figure out what's BS. We don't need them protecting us.

 

[frontline]

Last I heard the government's position had not changed, so we are not getting a release. I don't see it happening in 2011 and 2012 is an election year, so you do the math on that one.

Best we can do is go back and try to hammer out a deal we can live with for a few years.

 

[Buck]

Are they kept out of the loop? I have contacted other members at other Locals to get information or letters that were provided to the Presidents that they did not distribute. Maybe the Presidents shouldn't filter info and call it propaganda.
We are smart enough to figure out what's BS. We don't need them protecting us.

Your Out of Order, Brother!

 

[Bob Owens]

Are they kept out of the loop? I have contacted other members at other Locals to get information or letters that were provided to the Presidents that they did not distribute. Maybe the Presidents shouldn't filter info and call it propaganda. We are smart enough to figure out what's BS. We don't need them protecting us.

We fwd out pretty much everything, however I did stop forwarding out the crack price of oil reports, nobody cared. With hedges it was impossible to figure out what the effect would be anyway.
One thing that was very obvious is that any news related article that I've recieved from the International was one that would tend to lower expectations. Articles about bankruptcy, how much they may have to put into the pension, how much of a loss they are expected to post, how the latest fuel price increase was going to affect the airlines etc etc. Not once did I recieve articles that would tell us how much the revenue increased, how much they collected in baggage fees, or how high load factors were, how much fuel went down, how well hedged AA was or the need for more skilled workers. I would usually recieve those types of articles from Gary Santos.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

The thing is you and I have opinions that we write on this forum under an alias. Bob a president and negotiator for the TWU writes under his own name. His "opinions" carry more weight then ours. When Bob starts rattling off numbers, stats, and different scenarios, is that fact or opinion. Regardless if it is fact or opinion, what he writes should be 100% accurate and I believe should be what the whole negotiation committee stands by. I think he does a disservice to the negotiation committee and the union, when he bad mouths the other negotiators and international officers.

To me it seems like Bob is making excuses now, so when we don't get everything he talked up to his membership he won't be blamed, but that is my "opinion"

Bob Owens seems to be the only one who speaks at all. He always supports his position whether you are for it or not he will speak it. Who else does that? Most members hear nothing and thats OK with you? I get the messages at the hall from other locals memebrs who are grateful for Bob Owens letters, information, and thoughts. Maybe other presidents should speak up on their plan or theory going forward? No one says you have to agree with Bob Owens but at least he is doing more than being silent.

 

[Overspeed]

"No one says you have to agree with Bob Owens but at least he is doing more than being silent."

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

 

[Birdman]

It is the job of the Thought Police, i.e. Overspeed, to uncover and punish thoughtcrime and thought-criminals, using psychology and omnipresent surveillance from telescreens to find and eliminate members of society who were capable of the mere thought of challenging ruling authority.