Release Us!

[Rogallo]

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

And yet you keep speaking!!!

 

[Buck]

Bob Owens seems to be the only one who speaks at all. He always supports his position whether you are for it or not he will speak it. Who else does that? Most members hear nothing and thats OK with you? I get the messages at the hall from other locals memebrs who are grateful for Bob Owens letters, information, and thoughts. Maybe other presidents should speak up on their plan or theory going forward? No one says you have to agree with Bob Owens but at least he is doing more than being silent.

And then there is Local 514????

 

[Frank Szabo]

And then there is Local 514????

Removed the comment so the thread would continue.

 

[Duke787]

Bob Owens seems to be the only one who speaks at all. He always supports his position whether you are for it or not he will speak it. Who else does that? Most members hear nothing and thats OK with you? I get the messages at the hall from other locals memebrs who are grateful for Bob Owens letters, information, and thoughts. Maybe other presidents should speak up on their plan or theory going forward? No one says you have to agree with Bob Owens but at least he is doing more than being silent.

I'm grateful for info also, but when I get the info I want facts, not speculation, nor do I want rhetoric. I want to know what the COMMITTEE is doing/thinking, I would also like the info coming from the company, I think that info should come from the committee, Bob hates AA so much I'm not sure what info is real or perceived. I do not want to hear how one committee member disagrees with the rest, that should remain amongst the negotiators.

we deserve more Walter Cronkite

less Glenn Beck

 

[toroshark]

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

RE-read that quote just before the next time you post the half-truths about how great the rejected T/A was.

 

[Overspeed]

RE-read that quote just before the next time you post the half-truths about how great the rejected T/A was.

HA! Maybe you should too. I never said it was great. I only posted info on the turmoil in the industry and that Bob makes claims one way then the other to meet his argument at the time.

Happy 4th!

 

[Overspeed]

It is the job of the Thought Police, i.e. Overspeed, to uncover and punish thoughtcrime and thought-criminals, using psychology and omnipresent surveillance from telescreens to find and eliminate members of society who were capable of the mere thought of challenging ruling authority.

Oh crap! There are a lot of Orwell readers on this board. There was another reference to Animal Farm earlier. Now we need a Huxley reference!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I'm grateful for info also, but when I get the info I want facts, not speculation, nor do I want rhetoric. I want to know what the COMMITTEE is doing/thinking, I would also like the info coming from the company, I think that info should come from the committee, Bob hates AA so much I'm not sure what info is real or perceived. I do not want to hear how one committee member disagrees with the rest, that should remain amongst the negotiators.

we deserve more Walter Cronkite

less Glenn Beck

You need AMP if you want contract negotiation updates and how your negotiators are working for you. You don't get that with the TWU Int. By the way, where has Bob not given facts?

 

[Overspeed]

You need AMP if you want contract negotiation updates and how your negotiators are working for you. You don't get that with the TWU Int. By the way, where has Bob not given facts?

The flip flopper returns. Welcome back. Which union are we backing now?

Bob has stated outsourcing is not cheaper but has given no facts other than anyone who states otherwise is talking like management (mis-direction).

Blames the Int'l for dictating the votes on the Committee, if that was the case it's not the Int'l, it is the very Presidents that were directly elected. They can always vote no. They are either weak or understand the gravity of the situation.

States only half the truth when referring to other's pay. Never once discussed that a contract must be viewed as a whole and not as stand alone parts. Everyone he quotes as getting paid higher have major outsourcing of overhaul.

Stated that the TWU started the B-Scale. Not true. Read below about the APA under the direction of AMFA counsel Seham.

American Airlines adopted the benchmark B-scale in November 1983, permanently reducing pay for newly hired pilots by 50 percent. In fact, under the AA system—negotiated while the Seham firm sat on the labor side of the table—pay rates and pensions for new employees would never merge with those of then-current employees.

Martin Seham wrote proudly of this accomplishment in Cleared for Takeoff: Airline Labor Relations Since Deregulation.

As general counsel to the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the independent certified representative of the American Airlines pilots, I was close to the negotiations that resulted, in 1983, in one of the earliest realization of the two-tier system. APA was not faced with an insolvent or failing carrier; it was, however, forced to deal with an economic environment that had changed dramatically because of the effects of deregulation and was, by virtue of its independence, mandated to reach an agreement consistent with the needs and objectives of its constituency.

—Martin C. Seham

Although B-scales were not a new concept, their initial format was unique to the airline industry. Following American’s lead, other airlines began to demand similar packages—forcing the entire airline labor movement into a new era of concessions. Good for management; bad for pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, and all of the airline industry’s workers.

There is a ton more. Ten plus years of BS its hard to figure out the web of half-truths that make up Mr. Owens.

 

[Duke787]

You need AMP if you want contract negotiation updates and how your negotiators are working for you. You don't get that with the TWU Int. By the way, where has Bob not given facts?

When Bob gives us his speculation (his own admission) on how the airline industry is financed.................

Now get off the forum and enjoy the 4th of July......I'm on OT..........

I would have been making double time if we passed the TA, we're down $6k and counting. I hope the next TA proves me wrong, but I doubt it. Unless we get full retro, we will never make up that money.

 

[Buck]

When Bob gives us his speculation (his own admission) on how the airline industry is financed.................

Now get off the forum and enjoy the 4th of July......I'm on OT..........

I would have been making double time if we passed the TA, we're down $6k and counting. I hope the next TA proves me wrong, but I doubt it. Unless we get full retro, we will never make up that money.

Hope you are not working for straight time?

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

We fwd out pretty much everything, however I did stop forwarding out the crack price of oil reports, nobody cared. With hedges it was impossible to figure out what the effect would be anyway.
One thing that was very obvious is that any news related article that I've recieved from the International was one that would tend to lower expectations. Articles about bankruptcy, how much they may have to put into the pension, how much of a loss they are expected to post, how the latest fuel price increase was going to affect the airlines etc etc. Not once did I recieve articles that would tell us how much the revenue increased, how much they collected in baggage fees, or how high load factors were, how much fuel went down, how well hedged AA was or the need for more skilled workers. I would usually recieve those types of articles from Gary Santos.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Airlines-positioned-for-big-apf-629971177.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=
"A satellite-based air traffic control system in the U.S., several years away, that could cut fuel consumption by 12 percent. Airlines and the government are fighting over who will pay for it. The current system is based on less precise World War II-era radar, which can force planes to zigzag miles out of their way.

-- Aerodynamic improvements to jets, including vertical extensions at the tip of each wing called "winglets" that prevent drag. They've been around for several years but are being deployed on a wider range of planes.

-- Carrying less weight inside the plane. American is replacing its 19,000 catering carts with models that weigh 16 pounds less. Southwest is testing seat covers made with lighter fabric. JetBlue chose thinner seats for its new A320s. Every pound removed from a plane saves 30 gallons of fuel a year.

-- Replacing older jets faster. American, which has the worst fuel economy among U.S. airlines, is replacing aging MD80s with 737s that use 35 percent less fuel per passenger.

Airlines are cutting costs in other areas as well.

Ten years ago, salaries and benefits accounted for 39 percent of industry expenses. Now they account for 28 percent. Several major airlines filed for bankruptcy and that allowed them to renegotiate labor contracts."

 

[Chuck Schalk]

all the Bob Owens haters, I have not heard all your individual words of wisdom and how to get a liivable contract! So here is the platform and tell us all what we need to do going forward and what is the plan of attack under the current conditions Hey i have a great idea, why don't you ask your presidents and get back to this board what they think we should do.

........cricket.......cricket........ I will await your responses.

 

[strikeforce]

Hey i have a great idea, why don't you ask your presidents and get back to this board what they think we should do.

I wouldn't want to ask my president.....he's one that got booted off the committee and Chicken Little's stooge. I'm talking about Gilboy!

 

[strikeforce]

all the Bob Owens haters, I have not heard all your individual words of wisdom and how to get a liivable contract! So here is the platform and tell us all what we need to do going forward and what is the plan of attack under the current conditions Hey i have a great idea, why don't you ask your presidents and get back to this board what they think we should do.

........cricket.......cricket........ I will await your responses.

Chuck, if I was president of my local and on the negotiating committee I would.....
1. Stop talking on this forum.
2. Hold more strategy sessions with committee members on ways to force the company's hand to negotiate. One way is to have an understanding within the union negotiators that other locals will not go on field trips, work ot and will approach management that the union doesn't recognize the CS policy in the contract, and therefore will not allow members to CS.

Now, you all may think I'm CRAZY. I'm not! Right now, members are pretty much content because there's plenty of ot, field trips and more importantly CSing. Somehow the only way to engage the membership is to piss off the membership, and have them take it out on the company. Much of the finger pointing has been towards the union leadership....this strategy will turn it towards management. I would put the hurt on the membership, then go around and tell the members that management decided to pull the CS policy, No more ot and field trips. You want to talk about CHAOS!!!!!