Real Hope & Change - Ron Paul 2012

[SparrowHawk]

Right now Obama does not even know Rep Paul exists. He is polling at what, 14% or so? When the people start hearing that Paul wants to get rid of every social safety net there is he is gone.

But lets play your fantasy game. President Paul (you just got a hard on didn't you) moves into 1600 Pennsylvania. He needs Congress to like him and the only way Congress likes him is if the constituents like Congress. If you think a Congress member is going to vote to liquidate SS or medicare, let President Paul (calm down it's only a fantasy) pull troops out of the ME without any type of blow back or do any of the other crazy things that he wants to do I think you are going to be sorely disappointed. Anything President Paul (breath .. in ... out .... in ... out) wants has to go through Congress. Even assuming Paul is the second coming and really only wants what is good for the country, Congress is not and does not. Congress wants what is good for Congress. They will not give Paul a inch of rope to use to strangle them. Paul can talk a good game all he wants. Getting Congress to jump on board is a whole different game.

We shall see if he gets elected and BTW 14% at this juncture is pretty strong and this time around it's more then internet popularity so while he is indeed a long shot his ideas are being taken seriously by Main Street America.

One of the only ways for Obama to win reelection with his dismal performance is to make himself look good by making the other guy look bad and in this regard Ron would be his toughest opponent. If there are skeletons in Paul's closet no one has found them yet and it hasn't been for lack of effort. He's the only candidate that can withstand what will likely be the dirtiest campaign in US Election history. The guy returns part of his salary to the Treasury each year how can you paint him as another dirt bag politician in attack ads?

 

[Ms Tree]

No on needs to paint Paul out s a bad guy. As 777 pointed out else where. All Obama has to do is ask him how he will be getting rid of MC and SS and then sit back and watch the fire works. There is a reason neither party has addressed that issue. They like their jobs and want to keep them.

RP can either explain how he will get rid of them and kiss the WH good bye or he can say he will not get rid of them and watch his libertarian credentials and everything else vanish into thin air. He would have a hard tine explaining why e was not going to get rid of something thing that he feels is a clear violation of the COTUS. He cannot have it both ways. Given his position, he cannot have it even one way.

 

[SparrowHawk]

No on needs to paint Paul out s a bad guy. As 777 pointed out else where. All Obama has to do is ask him how he will be getting rid of MC and SS and then sit back and watch the fire works. There is a reason neither party has addressed that issue. They like their jobs and want to keep them.

RP can either explain how he will get rid of them and kiss the WH good bye or he can say he will not get rid of them and watch his libertarian credentials and everything else vanish into thin air. He would have a hard tine explaining why e was not going to get rid of something thing that he feels is a clear violation of the COTUS. He cannot have it both ways. Given his position, he cannot have it even one way.

He has already made his opinions known on this subject and it goes something like, Well you can't get rid of SS &MC now as that would be morally wrong to all of the people who paid into the system. But you have to make it solvent and the way to do this is use the money we spend on wars and empire building here at home.

 

[delldude]

No on needs to paint Paul out s a bad guy. As 777 pointed out else where. All Obama has to do is ask him how he will be getting rid of MC and SS and then sit back and watch the fire works. There is a reason neither party has addressed that issue. They like their jobs and want to keep them.

RP can either explain how he will get rid of them and kiss the WH good bye or he can say he will not get rid of them and watch his libertarian credentials and everything else vanish into thin air. He would have a hard tine explaining why e was not going to get rid of something thing that he feels is a clear violation of the COTUS. He cannot have it both ways. Given his position, he cannot have it even one way.

But tea party Americans realize its way beyond what should have been done a long time ago.....now all politicians will be held accountable...........even if it hurts.

This 2012 campaign will hinge on racisim..........take it to the bank.......its the only card progressives have left.

Can't run on Rocky Bama's record can we?

 

[777 fixer]

Therein lies the difference between the Back Bench Junior Senator from IL masquerading as POTUS and a man of principle and integrity like Ron Paul. He IS different. His finances prove it. The fact he returns a portion of his salary to the Treasury. He paid for all 5 of his kids tpo go to college WITHOUT gooberment help. He doesn't just believe what he says he actually LIVES it.

To me of all the Repooplicans running he's has to be the one guy Obama fears.

He's a man of principal and integrity up until the point his home district needs money to fix hurricane damage. At which point any talk of it's not the responsibility of other taxpayers to bail out people on the coast goes out the window.

 

[SparrowHawk]

He's a man of principal and integrity up until the point his home district needs money to fix hurricane damage. At which point any talk of it's not the responsibility of other taxpayers to bail out people on the coast goes out the window.

You've been playing that broken record now for 3 months it's old, tiresome and not totally accurate and I've neither the time nor the energy to pull the information because it would do no good anyway.

Want to compare his record of honesty and Integrity against the Back bench junior Senator who masquerades as POTUS? You'll get your proverbial assets handed to you on that. Does the phrase "Close Gitmo" ring a bell? just for starts.

Somehow failing to end both wars as promised, close gitmo, etc etc is a little more important than accepting aid for his district in time of natural disaster. You just have to face facts your guy is a failure by any measurable standard except the number of rounds of golf played by a sitting POTUS, There he's leading the league. Even the AFL-CIO has abandoned him. Trumka stated they were going to build a grass roots style organization instead of blindly supporting Democrats.

 

[777 fixer]

You've been playing that broken record now for 3 months it's old, tiresome and not totally accurate and I've neither the time nor the energy to pull the information because it would do no good anyway.

Sorry if pointing this fact out bothers you. And it is accurate.

 

[777 fixer]

He has already made his opinions known on this subject and it goes something like, Well you can't get rid of SS &MC now as that would be morally wrong to all of the people who paid into the system. But you have to make it solvent and the way to do this is use the money we spend on wars and empire building here at home.

So in other words he's not the Libertarian you say he is. Or he's just another politician who knows if he says certain things it will cost him votes.

 

[SparrowHawk]

So in other words he's not he Libertarian you say he is. Or he's just another politician who knows if he says certain things it will cost him votes.

Libertarians come in many forms. The most strident are really anarchists in disguise. There is no way any sane person would abruptly cancel a program like SS or MC just out of a fundamental sense of fairness. A trait I hope most politicians have.

So enlighten me Mr accurate exactly how many earmarks has Ron Paul accepted compared to other senior Congressmen? is he the Pope of Pork ala Bud Shuster?

I would argue that serving you constituency is the most important thing a member of Congress can do. He took money to help others not himself.

You've been beating this one horse to death for 3 months now! Why? I'll tell you why, because it's the only thing you have and if this is the best you can do to discredit him & his supporters then I think He has a good chance.

I still never understand why standing on ones own two feet scares the Progressive that they seek to shout down the fundamental concept of our nation.

 

[eolesen]

Sorry, guys, but Paul is not electable. Too extreme, and too old.

I don't care how healthy he appears to be, but he's 76. That's than McCain is now, and look at how much was made of that in the last election cycle.... If nominated, he'll be seven years older than Reagan was when nominated in 1983....

That's just one concern. Start looking at his policies, and some of them simply come off as being too extreme... Most voters know you can't boil the ocean, but that's what he's perceived as proposing to do.

The fact that some of Paul's supporters are borderline cult-like, and, well, that just scares the crap out of moderates...


Take a look at this week's polls, and the highest he's ranked is 9%. The lowest is 4%.

(Politico's polls are updated daily: http://www.politico.com/2012-election/presidential-polls/ )

Depending on which number you believe, his message isn't hitting home with at least 90% of voters....

Compare that to Perry & Romney, whose highest and lowest polling are at 50% - 21% and 28% - 16% respective.

I know, polls don't matter.... and the mainstream media is conspiring against him.... both of which are BS. The Paul supporters have had more than enough airtime, and he was in the Iowa debates. His message has gotten out. There isn't a Republican leaning voter in the US who doesn't know who he is.

The goal here is to get rid of Obama. Paul isn't the horse I would bet on to get that done.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Sorry, guys, but Paul is not electable. Too extreme, and too old.

I don't care how healthy he appears to be, but he's 76. That's than McCain is now, and look at how much was made of that in the last election cycle.... If nominated, he'll be seven years older than Reagan was when nominated in 1983....

That's just one concern. Start looking at his policies, and some of them simply scare the crap out of people for being too extreme... Most voters know you can't boil the ocean, and that's what he's proposing to do.


Take a look at this week's polls, and the highest he's ranked is 9%. The lowest is 4%.

That means his message isn't hitting home with between 91 and 96% of voters....

Compare that to Perry & Romney, whose highest and lowest polling are at 50% - 21% and 28% - 16% respective....

I know, polls don't matter.... and the mainstream media is conspiring against him.... both of which are BS. The Paul supporters have had more than enough airtime, and he was in the Iowa debates. His message has gotten out.

There isn't a Republican leaning voter in the US who doesn't know who he is, and frankly, he scares the crap out of some of them not because they're stuck with establishment ideals, but because frankly some of his ideas are simply too extreme, maybe even naive.

He did very well in Iowa, a fact that even Jon Stewart called out the media for trying to ignore Ron Paul. Head to head against Obama he polls 46% to Obama's 48%. It's early and all he needs to do is come in second in one or two of the three early states and then we get a real horse race.

Age is a problem and this clearly is the last hurrah for him. He would be 85 at the end of a second term and while I know several people that age who are as sharp as they ever were, I know may more who are gumming creamed corn at the local skilled care facility.

In order to overcome the age issue the VP would be critical. Would Romney, Perry or Bachmann play second fiddle to a guy like Ron Paul if it ever came to that?

Remember Bill Clinton came from so far back in the pack most of the pack didn't realize he was there at this point in the race.

 

[eolesen]

I don't think you can really compare the 1992 Democratic primaries to the current race.... Clinton was the best bad choice at the time, and only had Jerry Brown as competition because most saw Bush as unbeatable during the primary season. Bush imploded over the spring and summer.

This time, you've got an unpopular incumbent, and two strong (Perry & Romney) plus two interesting choices (Bachmann & Paul).

It's hard to say if Clinton would have still been elected had Perot not been in the race as a distraction. Clinton won with just 43% of the vote, and Perot wound up with 19%.

 

[delldude]

So in other words he's not the Libertarian you say he is. Or he's just another politician who knows if he says certain things it will cost him votes.

Can you show any politician who is the dyed in the wool stick by his convictions type guy?

And get elected?

If one doesn't pander to all flavors, will he cross the great divide and get elected?

Only if all flavors see a common quality.

????

 

[SparrowHawk]

The Plot Thickens as Ron Paul is not going away this time.

Ron Paul Emerges as Formidable GOP Presidential Contender

By IBTimes Staff Reporter | September 9, 2011 8:53 AM EDT

Something interesting happened in that moment during the Republican presidential debate when Texas Governor and GOP front-runner Rick Perry turned to Ron Paul during a break, continuing a spirited exchange while physically grabbing him and pointing an index finger toward Paul's face.

Texas Governor Rick Perry talks during a break with Rep. Ron Paul, (R-TX) on stage at the Reagan Centennial GOP presidential primary debate at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California September 7, 2011.

Perry showed America that Ron Paul is a legitimate contender and force to be reckoned with in the Republican presidential race. Already, Paul had a second-place showing in the Iowa straw poll, but since Perry announced his candidacy and as other talk has been focused on whether or not Sarah Palin will run, Paul had gotten lost on the media shuffle.

But not only did Paul grab a win in a subsequent MSNBC debate poll after the event, as votes from his passionate supporters and others poured in giving Paul a quick 50 percent positive response ahead of Mitt Romney (17 percent) and Perry (14 percent), but Paul continued throughout the next day to emerge on the Internet as a victor.

A picture from the debate showing the episode in which Perry turned to Paul during the break lit up media sites, and the talk began to shift from that debate moment to what Paul stands for and is running for in his presidential bid. Almost overnight, the Texas House Republican became a formidable candidate in the GOP presidential nomination race.

Paul doesn't have a John Wayne-like swagger. He's not the Gipper. And, sagging cheeks often get him posed in pictures with a scowl. Some think he's scowling anyway, since Paul is quite the outspoken political persona, unafraid to speak out on controversial subjects from historic legislation to problems he sees with the Federal Reserve. But he's got something that grabs in this race, and it got noticed in the debate.

Paul showed he isn't afraid to go after front-runner Perry, who hails from the same state and shares the same political party. Paul and Perry are quite different, however, as Paul points out. Before the debate, for instance, Paul's campaign sent an open-letter to Perry, criticizing the Texas governor's record.

In an open-letter to Perry before the debate, Paul's Campaign Chairman Jesse Benton slammed Perry's record as Governor of Texas. "We don't think the fact that you used to be a Democrat is the big problem here. The real problem is that, too often, you still act like one," Paul's campaign said.

 

[777 fixer]

Libertarians come in many forms. The most strident are really anarchists in disguise. There is no way any sane person would abruptly cancel a program like SS or MC just out of a fundamental sense of fairness. A trait I hope most politicians have.

In other words things will preety much stay the same and he's not really a Libertarian. He's just another politician trying to get elected who knows if says the wrong thing he will lose votes.

All that real hope and change you like to talk about is just that, talk. Every Ron Paul supporter I have come across likes to think of themselves as experts in the constitution. Well if that's the case then they are going to have to admit to themselves that they are going to be disapointed if he does get elected. Why, becasue our system is set up in such a way that it does not allow a president to do whatever he wants.