Ramp Rat Voting results second update

[lithuanian]

Listen, Tim, Unless you disclose who you are/work for, your numbers are useless. Who do you think you should impress? You have an uncanny way of persuasion but it is nothing without credence. This is a fantasy of yours. The real results will only be disclosed after Sept. 5th. Ya! we're all being subjected to a Kangaroo Court. Both company and union are playing both sides. We haven't heard truth or lie! from either. We work for two Masters! Woe! be the grunts of the Mega Masters.

 

[diogenes]

Piney Bob is right. IAM does not want to arbitrate, and I'd bet large you will see another vote before you see arbitration.

Excellent vote, fleet! Hang tough! Just be ready to do it again, after much FUD.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Listen, Tim, Unless you disclose who you are/work for, your numbers are useless. Who do you think you should impress? You have an uncanny way of persuasion but it is nothing without credence. This is a fantasy of yours. The real results will only be disclosed after Sept. 5th. Ya! we're all being subjected to a Kangaroo Court. Both company and union are playing both sides. We haven't heard truth or lie! from either. We work for two Masters! Woe! be the grunts of the Mega Masters.

Lithuanian, I think i've been clear who I am, color me as you wish, I'm not seeking your vote nor credence, and the numbers stand alone, separate from my opinions. Not looking to impress anyone, just sick and tired of the babble from my District, of which I still retain membership in.

I do agree about the Kangaroo Court of the IAM, and I agree with Diogenes that the IAM's first choice is clearly not to arbitrate. The IAM has devilish schemes so I think we can expect possibly a revote or another 11 page enema to follow. That's why it's important to stick together after the no vote is announced. The workers must keep their guards up and then hit the IAM down again should they show contempt and treason against the worker one more time.

Solidarity with members means alot so let's not sell that short. Any fairness, if achieved, is only possible if workers stick together in their endeavor to see justice. Keep your heads up and don't worry about the IAM's plan B. Keep focused on the workers Plan A which is a fair and equitable contract. Screw IAM plan B, don't even look that way. the IAM needs to step up to the plate and join plan A. So far they have failed to do this. Workers need to be doggedly determined to gain the respect and justice that you all deserve. It's a tough hill to climb, to keep solid that is, but there is no other choice if you folks want the respect you and your families deserve. Your company wanted you to give up your profit sharing and flush down two grievances that would keep the company accountable and only wanted to open up one or two articles in your contract. Screw that! And the west was given 'wage bait' that was paid for with every single benefit they had.
If you East Siders have to you should all be willing to wait 16 months so the entire contract can be opened up, as opposed to collaring your vacation, sick time, holidays, double time with another couple years of chains. The westies are in great shape, their contract is already up so they are in the position that every union member dreams of, ie., negotiating a new contract with a company that is making billions. Instead of being ready to bend over and throw every benefit they have ever known under the bus, the westies should hang tight and make sure the IAM forces the company into section 6 negotiations. Your company has not been forced to do this over the past couple years because the IAM Bosses have been jacking around making backroom deals and disrespecting the west siders.

Now it appears to me that there is unity, and there will be a few battles from the company/IAM to 'feel ya out' and see if the unity can be broken. If it remains steady then you don't have to worry what the IAM is going to do, solidarity of members will eventually force their hand. I think Fleet service has had enough and has learned to stop relying on 'piss clam' union bosses from United airlines who have continually and repeatedly sold you out. From PHL to CLT, and from PIT to LAS, I think things are growing strong. PHX needs work but there's hope there. We're in contact with folks out there and building bridges.

[email protected]
regards,

 

[freedom]

Well to update everyone on what happened in LAS. The voted ended before the majority of the members and workers would have shown up to vote. Second the IAM leadership in LAS meaning mendenhall and chandlee were leaning over watching people vote and getting pissed when people were voting NO. There were shouting matches and even one of the trustees got up and walked out and said she wouldnt be party to what they were doing. Anyone who showed up and had a question they were told to just vote Yes. I dont think we folded we got double the no votes than PHX did. PHX is amazed at how they are now the little step child and they must look pretty dumb to see how everyone else voted while they are drinking Dougies Koolaid.

i found your quote interesting , we don't drink the koolaid , you should know that better than anyone else . You know as well as i do just HOW LONG we've been getting the short end of the stick , does it suprise you that PHX would vote yes?You should not insult our collective intelligence , because where are we located again? Who do we have dealings with more often that not??? for those who don't get my drift , we are located in PHX arizona HQ of us airways , and we KNOW this managment ... It's a sad thing to say , but their favoraite tatict is called "stall" stall as long as humanly possible , and corporate has become masters of this ablity ... i am sure our east brothers will begin to understand this as the years pass ...

I have from time to time nightmares about being trapped in this substandard contract for years nevada ... if the arbitration is lost then we will wait for 16 months , and if you factor in ithe time needed to conduct talks , it becomes more like two years .. and this company won't sweeten the TA pot , why would they , they have the best of both worlds , they could keep the east in their BK contract for two more years , and keep us in our poverty wages along with them .

If the arbitration is won , i can't see any east worker trading in a 20,000 dollar back pay check for ANYTHING , not to mention that upon wining any such case, if i read the terms correctly they would have the ablity to extend that contract for up to three years , which is of course what they would do .. (if i understand correctly we would not be part of this )

People say section 6 , section 6! i personally do not understand what a section 6 is , people say it would allow us to negotatie our own seperate contract with the company . Doug parker has said over and over that he won't negotiate seperate contracts , WILL NOT ...If he does it with us he'd HAVE to do it for the pilots and vice versa , so he wont and no court could force him to do otherwise because he could simply point to the pilots and explain their situation and say that if he did it for us he'd have to do it for them and it would cost this company FAR too much .

As i see it we are :censored:

of course thou only time will tell , sure hope i'm wrong .

 

[freedom]

Many stations are 'dialed in' however some are not. Would like more 'westies' dialed in, and FWIW, BOS and TPA are yet to be networked in. If you would like to tie in to our network then email me at [email protected]. It is wise to plan now so that Fleet Service can be ready if the IAM/Company tries anything with the vote, revote, or possibly postpones the arbitration again.

The vote is clear, Arbitrate.

regards,

Tim i find your knowledge to be quite usefull and your perspective is very "outside" the box so your views are in my opinon always good to have .Your right , we need to dial in more of our stations , but they should be directed here to usaviation.com and not you .I'm not saying you can't talk to my side of the family , i'm just saying you should do it in a public forum such as this .

 

[BoeingBoy]

and this company won't sweeten the TA pot , why would they , they have the best of both worlds , they could keep the east in their BK contract for two more years , and keep us in our poverty wages along with them

That logic leads to one of two conclusions......

1 - you shouldn't even have a TA to vote on since it's to the company's benefit to keep both sides on their current contracts as long as possible. So why is there a TA to be voting on?

or

2 - the TA you're voting on doesn't increase the cost to the company. Otherwise, your logic would lead you right back to #1.

The other possibility, if this is such a good TA you're voting on, is that the company is willing to incur higher costs to achieve a single contract. But that begs the question - how much more are they willing to pay? The only way to find out is to vote this TA down........

Jim

 

[NevadaHP]

freedom you dont get it. Im an long term employee on the west side. The raise I would have got this year at 50% would wipe out my profitsharing bonus. The other 50% next year would wipe out all my benies, STD,LTD holidays, sick pay, health insurance and also selling out the Brothers and Sisters in our field stations. Im still upset about TWU leaving, the IAM should have said screw the T/A and continue negotiating the west a contract, but instead they have been trying to throw the CIC away for a single contract more dues payers and I do agree with TIM that the IAM fought Very hard to get positive space flts for AGCs. The IAM needs to go back to the company with BALLS in hand and say ok time to go section 6 with the west and dont even say COST NEUTRAL. F* them we deserve to keep all of our benefits and we deserve a 30% raise if you ask me.

 

[b737200]

i found your quote interesting , we don't drink the koolaid , you should know that better than anyone else . You know as well as i do just HOW LONG we've been getting the short end of the stick , does it suprise you that PHX would vote yes?You should not insult our collective intelligence , because where are we located again? Who do we have dealings with more often that not??? for those who don't get my drift , we are located in PHX arizona HQ of us airways , and we KNOW this managment ... It's a sad thing to say , but their favoraite tatict is called "stall" stall as long as humanly possible , and corporate has become masters of this ablity ... i am sure our east brothers will begin to understand this as the years pass ...

I have from time to time nightmares about being trapped in this substandard contract for years nevada ... if the arbitration is lost then we will wait for 16 months , and if you factor in ithe time needed to conduct talks , it becomes more like two years .. and this company won't sweeten the TA pot , why would they , they have the best of both worlds , they could keep the east in their BK contract for two more years , and keep us in our poverty wages along with them .

If the arbitration is won , i can't see any east worker trading in a 20,000 dollar back pay check for ANYTHING , not to mention that upon wining any such case, if i read the terms correctly they would have the ablity to extend that contract for up to three years , which is of course what they would do .. (if i understand correctly we would not be part of this )

People say section 6 , section 6! i personally do not understand what a section 6 is , people say it would allow us to negotatie our own seperate contract with the company . Doug parker has said over and over that he won't negotiate seperate contracts , WILL NOT ...If he does it with us he'd HAVE to do it for the pilots and vice versa , so he wont and no court could force him to do otherwise because he could simply point to the pilots and explain their situation and say that if he did it for us he'd have to do it for them and it would cost this company FAR too much .

As i see it we are :censored:

of course thou only time will tell , sure hope i'm wrong .

He also said he would never drink and drive again!

 

[john john]

Who do we have dealings with more often that not??? for those who don't get my drift , we are located in PHX arizona HQ of us airways , and we KNOW this managment ... It's a sad thing to say , but their favoraite tatict is called "stall" stall as long as humanly possible , and corporate has become masters of this ablity ... i am sure our east brothers will begin to understand this as the years pass ...

You crack me up with your greenness. You really do need to get more involved with all aspect of the airlines and union negotiations

 

[Goodoleboy]

Correction... Hayden drove down more NO VOTES than YES VOTES.....
Thanks

Correct

 

[redeye]

Tim i find your knowledge to be quite usefull and your perspective is very "outside" the box so your views are in my opinon always good to have .Your right , we need to dial in more of our stations , but they should be directed here to usaviation.com and not you .I'm not saying you can't talk to my side of the family , i'm just saying you should do it in a public forum such as this .

Freedom,

You are dead on with your read on needing to think out of the box. My interpretation of Tims suggestions is a Manifesto of change.
We fellow Fleet Service workers cannot succeed divided. I think Tim is offering no more than to create a uniting point.
Using this forum to reveal strategies for this change would be foolish. The Company and The IAM will never use this forum to
inform us of their intentions. And we have to be smart enough to be able to play on their field. As you have stated in other threads,
you have confidence in the 141 District Leadership and are willing to walk like a Lemming.
I for one will not. You probably had the same trust in the TWU Leadership. You would probably have a different opinion if you researched
the Department of Labor resources and saw for yourself the large gifts and donations the IAM is giving the TWU monthly.
A persons opinion could be that the TWU was paid to walk away from the west membership and the east people wanting a change.
The Airline environment has changed drastically. There are senior employees who have walked the walk on both sides.
There are well educated members of our group both on the east and west whose only agendas are to have a true Union that
we can all prosper with. Join us, get educated, stand together!

E Pluribus Unum - "Out of many, one"

Or as my son says;

"Transformers Unite"

 

[Tim Nelson]

Freedom,

You are dead on with your read on needing to think out of the box. My interpretation of Tims suggestions is a Manifesto of change.
We fellow Fleet Service workers cannot succeed divided. I think Tim is offering no more than to create a uniting point.
Using this forum to reveal strategies for this change would be foolish. The Company and The IAM will never use this forum to
inform us of their intentions. And we have to be smart enough to be able to play on their field. As you have stated in other threads,
you have confidence in the 141 District Leadership and are willing to walk like a Lemming.
I for one will not. You probably had the same trust in the TWU Leadership. You would probably have a different opinion if you researched
the Department of Labor resources and saw for yourself the large gifts and donations the IAM is giving the TWU monthly.
A persons opinion could be that the TWU was paid to walk away from the west membership and the east people wanting a change.
The Airline environment has changed drastically. There are senior employees who have walked the walk on both sides.
There are well educated members of our group both on the east and west whose only agendas are to have a true Union that
we can all prosper with. Join us, get educated, stand together!

E Pluribus Unum - "Out of many, one"

Or as my son says;

"Transformers Unite"

Bingo! BTW, Bos voted today

regards,

 

[isthisok]

PIT votes tomorrow and will put the icing on the cake. Two vans are being rented to shuttle people to the Union hall, to make sure everyone gets a chance to vote. From the grapevine there are less then 10 yes votes.

 

[Tim Nelson]

PIT votes tomorrow and will put the icing on the cake. Two vans are being rented to shuttle people to the Union hall, to make sure everyone gets a chance to vote. From the grapevine there are less then 10 yes votes.

R U Guys making sure someone observes?
I heard JAX was a big no but no numbers confirmed yet. Also heard BOS was a big no today but nothing confirmed.

regards,

 

[isthisok]

R U Guys making sure someone observes?
I heard JAX was a big no but no numbers confirmed yet. Also heard BOS was a big no today but nothing confirmed.

regards,

Yep! Lists of those voting are going to be kept also. It is not only your right to vote but your responsibility!
By the way I was told that they didn't want to give us much so there was something left for the mechanics. We are not the mechanics but we don't want to be the new utility also.......get my drift?