PUP Scorecard 2008

[AC AA LA FA]

Point of order... AMR did avoid bankruptcy, and the employees were definitely a key part of that, but they were not the only reason.

Vendors and creditors agreed to cuts that were equal to those of the employees. Management also made changes which cut expenses and capital spending.

You can rightly give employees some of the credit, but not all the credit.

And no, I don't give exec management any of the credit. The ideas on where to cut spending came from the L3-L6 managers. The L8's and above just took the credit.

Point of Clarification...

..that as just the beginning and hardly the ideas that kept AMR out of the BK Court. Much, much more came for the collaboration and cooperation from all labor on the property through the JBT/JLT etc programs. Restructuring only kept us out of the woods for so long. By 2005 we were back on the brink, as we were told and the ideas that kept this company solvent came from the shop floor, not the 6th floor...or any floor at CP...

When it came time to share our rewards then...only 700 or so took part.

 

[FWAAA]

Restructuring only kept us out of the woods for so long. By 2005 we were back on the brink, as we were told and the ideas that kept this company solvent came from the shop floor, not the 6th floor...or any floor at CP...

AMR was not "back on the brink" in 2005. Either the employees misunderstood or someone lied to the employees. Might have been management or might have been union leaders. By 2005, AMR had amassed a huge cash balance that helped it survive the oil price blip of 2005-08.

I'm certain that employees provided many ideas that helped save the company money. Kudos to their efforts. But I'm a fan of non-revisionist history, not the revisionist history quoted above.

 

[restore03]

Either the employees misunderstood or someone lied to the employees. Might have been management or might have been union leaders.

Say it ain't so! There is NO WAY the company nor the union would lie to us.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

AMR was not "back on the brink" in 2005. Either the employees misunderstood or someone lied to the employees. Might have been management or might have been union leaders. By 2005, AMR had amassed a huge cash balance that helped it survive the oil price blip of 2005-08.

I'm certain that employees provided many ideas that helped save the company money. Kudos to their efforts. But I'm a fan of non-revisionist history, not the revisionist history quoted above.

whats your take con Conspiracy Theorist..?!?

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

So then I have to ask the obvious question: what's the benefit to management in turning down the money? If that wouldn't be considered an olive branch, what would be?

To answer your question, there is no benefit to management if they turn down the money.

Why should they benefit from their sacrifices if we do not benefit from ours????

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

To answer your question, there is no benefit to management if they turn down the money.

Why should they benefit from their sacrifices if we do not benefit from ours????

Thanks for the honesty. So what's the solution going forward to improve labor relations? Surely that is a worthwhile goal.

 

[The Goose]

Thanks for the honesty. So what's the solution going forward to improve labor relations? Surely that is a worthwhile goal.

While improving company/worker relations is always a worthwhile goal, the reality is any attempt at such has been one-sided since 2003 and kept that way by both fear and manipulation of the workforce, by both the company and the TWU International.

I'm not sure there is an answer. Most will agree at this point due to the years of outright lies and misrepresentation, the company and union have both squandered any trust that was ever built with the workforce. The so-called representation continues to collect dues giving its membership nothing of value in return for those collected dues while the company demands more give-backs.

Many don't see the point in discussing these problems. I've not spoken with many that have any belief left in the process (excepting, of course, those who are benefiting from the "Working Together" 'I don't have to work anymore' BS). Most don't get on sites like this and write, but that doesn't make them any happier with the situation.

A cessation of propaganda from all factions involved is a start to an improved company/worker relationship but it's not in the nature of any of the players to cede control.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Thanks for the honesty. So what's the solution going forward to improve labor relations? Surely that is a worthwhile goal.

I'm not sure there is an answer. Most will agree at this point due to the years of outright lies and misrepresentation, the company and union have both squandered any trust that was ever built with the workforce. The so-called representation continues to collect dues giving its membership nothing of value in return for those collected dues while the company demands more give-backs.



DITTO

 

[go AA]

AA has been a pretty crummy place to work for as long as I can remember. I got stuck ina rut and stayed for 29 years. But as soon as I turned 55 I got the hell out.
I highly recommend this plan of action to all of you that are rightly frustrated by Pup etc.
Life is so much better now.

 

[Hopeful]

AA has been a pretty crummy place to work for as long as I can remember. I got stuck ina rut and stayed for 29 years. But as soon as I turned 55 I got the hell out.
I highly recommend this plan of action to all of you that are rightly frustrated by Pup etc.
Life is so much better now.

Congratulations on being able to leave AA. But with the economy as it stands......is not the ideal time to retire early.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

Congratulations on being able to leave AA. But with the economy as it stands......is not the ideal time to retire early.

Can we extend this logic to: with the economy as it stands... it is not the ideal time to demand a big raise?

 

[Hopeful]

Can we extend this logic to: with the economy as it stands... it is not the ideal time to demand a big raise?

Can we extend this logic to : with the economy as it stands......it is not the ideal time to be paying the upper class executive their PUPs...


Oh I forgot they have a contract with the company....

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

They do have a contract, and so do you. Personally I think it's unfortunate that the payouts are distributed as they currently are, but until a new contract is worked out that is the reality.

But again, this is all pure speculation until we see what the board does in the spring.

 

[eolesen]

The only scenario I can see where the board might forego bonuses is if they think there's a chance that airlines will get the same style bailout that the banks, GM and Chrysler did. Even though Nobama's already backed off on the salary caps for execs at bailed out banks, the airline execs would need to offer up some symbol of sacrifice.... it's not like they can fly to DC on a hybrid aircraft...

 

[Mach85ER]

Can we extend this logic to: with the economy as it stands... it is not the ideal time to demand a big raise?

With AA, it's never a good time to ask for a big (or any) raise.

From the pilot side, they've always dragged out negotiations out for so long that it's inevitable that sometime there is be a down cycle in the economy. This never fails to bring out the whiners and their "how can you ask these poor managers for more money" chants.